This may be one of the longest threads, but it's also one of the dullest...

Honey, what's the problem?? It's quite simple: Peter Parker is a dork, a total nerd and when he has the black suit on, his confidence level shoots up 100% along with his cockiness and arrogance and that's what the Jazz Club scene displayed.. You folks are reading too hard into it for your own good..

We get it BKB, its just not well done.

The scene was akwardly funny though.

HIS COCKINESS WAS ALREADY AT AN ALL-TIME HIGH WHEN HE KISSED GWEN STACY AT THE "KEY" CEREMONY!!!

THAT SCENE WAS PUT IN FOR PETER TO REALIZE THE SUIT WAS BAD... BAD BAD BAD. AND TO PISS EVERYONE OFF BECAUSE OF HOW MORONIC IT WAS.

rethinking....the movie is damn bad. But thats good. So there is crap I cant make cause I have a costiveness!

There are many ways for a person to express his cockiness, and the way Raimi chose simply doesn't fit what Spider-Man was before. I don't know how to explain it clearly in words, but when you become cocky, you don't become totally unrecognizable in your characteristics of what made you before (and somehow totally jumped back to the previous character when you are out of it, then going back and forth). Out of character and the two just don't connect.

Oh, I just read most of the posts in the thread and realized most of my vents had been covered extensively before I wrote mine. Pretty much agree with what Shack and others have said.

Archie's Youtube clip of the jazz scene got me thinking about the movie again, which is something I didn't want to do. The more I think about it, the more I like Superman IV: The Quest for Peace better. That film is at least consistently unintentionally funny and enjoyable to watch and make fun of. Decapitated astronauts, dumb nuclear plot, Timmy, Superman and Nuclear Man dancing in space, the blackness of space made out of curtains, wires galore, it's all fun. Spider-Man 3 is just miserable in every way imaginable, minus the somewhat decent first half.

D+

I give Superman IV a lot of credit, it was dumped on, It had a bold idea, and the budget that was the same as the last film was cut in half, they lost all backing, and sold to Cannon.

If Superman IV had a 40 million budget, the Salkinds, and no more Richard Lester, it could have been something entirely different.

Your on crack..

Sweetest crack ever...!

Is crack Plan Q?

I forget which Plan we're on.

Sorry, but he's got a point, "Superman IV" and "better" should never be used in the same sentence, no matter what the occation is.

The thing is, it is a better film. Not by a hell of a lot, but it's the more entertaining film.

Superman IV's heart was in the right place. If it had any type of budget or support, it could have been a great film
The main theme that even Superman can't give the world peace is powerful even today.

How touching.

OK, just saw it. A digital print, so it looked great.

I was actually not disappointed, perhaps because I had seen that the reviews were not that good. It was better than I expected, but not up to the standards of the previous films.

I didn't read all 17 pages here, so forgive me if I repeat what someone else already wrote:

The thing that bugged me the most? The amazing coincidences. Here is a city of, what, 10 million people? And black goo from some metorite lands on earth -- not in the 75% that is ocean, not in the Antarctic, but in New York city, right next to the guy who was the only person on earth who had been bitten by a radioactive spider. His rival at the newspaper? A guy who is dating the girl who he saves who just happens to be the Commissioner's daughter. And of the 10 million people in the city, who happens to be in the church just when the goo falls from Spidey, who just happened to pick that particular church at that exact time? You got it! Imagine if he had gone in just 10 minutes later! And who just happens to excape from jail and just happens to land in an experiment that just happens to be going on right at that time late at night (what, don't scientists work normal hours?) and turns him into the Sandman -- that's right, not some random goon from prison, but the very guy who happens to have killed Spidey's uncle! And so on...

I rolled my eyes quite a lot.

Yeah?? And what?? You enjoyed it is what your saying despite the coincidences you mentioned which could very well pertain to the BATMAN movies to.. Now what?? Christ, it's a comicbook movie.. That's generally how it works Groucho..

Geez, BKB, why can't we hold our comic book movies to the same standards we hold all other movies? If this had been a serious drama with coincidences like that, would you ignore them?

Why is everything with you 100%? You eitehr love films and find no problems whatsoever with them or you hate them and can't find a single redeeming value in them. Most of us do not look at the world that way.

Almost every comic book film has these amazing coincidences.

Actually, many films do. Sometimes you need them for plot reasons and sometimes they provide great irony. But when they pile on one after another, at some point you have to go "OK, that's enough. 10 million people in a city and everything happens to these seven?

I still gave the film a C, unlike some of the reviewers here.

The thing is, these coincidences could've easily been made more viable. It's just lazy writing.

Instead of the meteor miracously landing 20 feet from Spiderman, how about it this. It lands in a random area, scientists discover it and pick it up. It is presented at a convention where Dr. Conners takes a sample, brings it back to his lab. While Spiderman is visiting him, he accidentally knocks the canister over and gets some on him while they put it back in. There, logic.

Gwen... they already fucked with her character so much, why not just have the Peter-Gwen introduction come when she's on Brock's arm, and take the life stealing from there.

Sandman... he should've never been Uncle Ben's killer in the first place and the demoleculizer machine was silly. In the comics he simply was on the run from the law, until he came to a nuclear testing beach. The beach itself had been tested on, and was made of radioactive easily reacted sand. When he came in contact with it, it bonded with his molecules and he became what he is. Why not follow that?

The church... hard to rectify, but I would've had Brock follow emo Peter into the church maybe, pissed off and wondering why he is in god's house. He sees Peter climb up to the tower, he follows behind. Black stuff off, onto Brock, Peter notices and crys about what he's done.

Hey, sounds like you've got an interesting movie! When is it coming out? Oh, right, the lame version is already in theatres...

Guy, it's freaking called SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF.. Not every single frame of a movie like this or any other comicbook adaptation has to provide an answer for EVERYTHING to every scene in the movie.. You either Suspend Disbelief and go with the flow or you become a Cynical old goat and look for faults and enough so to make for a miserable time..

Coincidences don't bother me; pretty much all blockbusters have them. It's the plot and all the contrivances and things that don't belong in a Spider-Man movie.