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Eagle
Site Owner
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm Posts: 14631 Location: Pittsburgh
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Very good news, critical aclaim and good reviews can push its opening weekend to the upper 30's.
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Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:53 am |
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A. G.
Draughty
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:23 am Posts: 13347
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Bloom has got the same problem Leo Dicraprio has, no sense of manly gravitas. It isn't that he's good looking -- watch very young Michael Caine in Zulu, he was a "pretty boy" as well, but he also had a manly strong quality that Bloom and DiCaprio don't have. DiCaprio in Titanic (which Erendis mentioned), that was a movie in which he was playing a teenager, not a man. Bloom is probably going to sink KoH along with one other issue....
....which is lack of a strong adult female character. Eva Green doesn't cut it. What helped Gladiator overcome the "boys with toys" niche was Connie Nielson who turned in a strong proud and adult performance, seemed like an intelligent real woman, like a better looking Annette Bening. But KoH doesn't seem to have such roles, which will hurt it's appeal to women and older men.
Then there's the King. You can see it in the latest long trailer that the King is played behind a mask by Edward Norton, and he basically talks with a suburban American accent, which is very out of place.
As to the David Poland review, that's not much of a compliment to say it's the best sword and sandal movie of the past 2 years. How many have their been? Troy and ..... what? The Four Feathers wasn't a sword and sandal movie, neither was The Last Samurai.
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Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:10 am |
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dar
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:01 pm Posts: 1702
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Archie Gates wrote: As to the David Poland review, that's not much of a compliment to say it's the best sword and sandal movie of the past 2 years. How many have their been? Troy and ..... what? The Four Feathers wasn't a sword and sandal movie, neither was The Last Samurai.
If you have read the whole review, you´ll have seen that it wasn´t only that... He seemed to like the movie a lot, reagrdless of other epics.
But there is also Alexander & King Arthur... If the movie is better than those, in his opinion at least, It means it is no disaster, as some people were predicting around here.
And "Ridley Scott at the top of his game" sounds fairly good to me!
_________________You Are a Strawberry Daiquiri
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Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:19 am |
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Nazgul9
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:32 pm Posts: 11289 Location: Germany
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http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=19862
Quote: I caught a press screening of Kingdom of Heaven last night in Pasadena in which, going in, I was assuming was a test screening. Once the film was over and no survey cards were handed out, a dim realization set in: what I had watched was the finished film. I had read that a three hour cut was screened in January to mostly confused audiences. This final cut clocks in at 135 minutes not including credits and noticeably suffers for it. Directed by Ridley Scott, who at this point in his career is almost beyond reproach, made an extraordinary looking film. Interestingly, this film seems to come full circle for Scott, 28 years after making the extraordinary looking The Duellists. The Duellists, a flawed but passionate film debut, is mostly known for being style over substance in which the edited version of Kingdom of Heaven seems to emulate. But this time, it doesn't seem to be Scott's fault, but yet another casualty of the ignorant majority of test screening attendees and studio lemmings.
The script is certainly there, dense and reverent to both Christians and Muslims, William Monahan gives us an auspicious debut. Definitely a writer to keep an eye on, future projects include Scorsese's upcoming Infernal Affairs remake, The Departed, Tripoli and Jurassic Park IV. The plot centers on a young French blacksmith, Balian (Orlando Bloom) who numbed to life from losing his wife decides to join a crusade to the Holy Land led by his estranged father Godfrey of Ibelin(Liam Neeson). Once there, relationships form with various Christian factions, both good: Tiberias(Jeremy Irons) and King Baldwin IV(a great vocal performance from a prominent actor) and bad: Guy de Lusigna(Marton Csoka) who is married to King Baldwin's sister, Sybilla(Eva Green). Peace is held until a group of Knights Templar led by Guy de Lusigna slaughter Saracen knights and the Muslim leader Saladin's(an amazing film debut from Syrian actor Ghassan Massoud) sister which provokes a Muslim siege on Jerusalem. That's the plot in a rather paraphrased nutshell. Davis Thewlis also shows up as a warrior priest who bestows intermittent advice to Balian and Brendan Gleeson as Reynald, a fellow conspirator to Guy de Lusigna.
My biggest fault with the casting can probably be guessed. To be sure, I like Orlando Bloom and I think he is a good actor with a great career ahead of him, but does he have the gravitas to carry a film like this at this point in his career? In my opinion, no. In the early sequences, when he is paired with Liam Neeson, it works. He works. A paternal bond is felt and sharing the screen with Nesson seems natural. Once Bloom begins to carry the film himself, however, I can feel the energy slowly deflating from his performance, from the film. The requisite rousing speeches at the end have no bite, no emotion. Whatever flaws afflict Braveheart or Gladiator, it was not concerning the doubt of the central character, not to mention Neeson's own underrated Rob Roy. Can this be attributed to the edited version? Possibly, but it's also understandable considering Bloom has to hold his own against one of the best ensemble casts in quite some time. Actors that in comparison are wholly underutilized. Jeremy Irons commands every second of screentime that he has, an unfortunate minority compared to Blooms. Ghassan Massoud will stare right the fuck through you, a great face. Eva Green who some of you will know from The Dreamers shows another great facet of her ability. Jouko Ahola(who was widely scrutinized for his performance as Zishe in Herzog's Invincible and strongest man 97' and 99') just fucking grabbed the screen by it's throat in his one scene. Upon seeing him for the first time in an early battle sequence with medieval weapons, just fucking hold on, man. He was the one I wanted to follow to the Holy Land. He has a few great moments,in that seqence but later in the film don't be surprised if you mentally replace Bloom with Ahola. For a few gleeful moments, I had Conan the Barbarian meets The Holy Wars.
Ultimately, I'm recommending the film based solely on some wonderful performances and the film being arguably Scott's best looking film in 20 years. Bloom's performance didn't grab me but that's subjective and might also be dependent on the choppiness of cutting 30 to 45 minutes out of the film. There are three weeks left......
The day i heard Bloom was casted for this i had my doubts whether he would be able to pull this off convincingly and this review (and the trailers) just confirmed my fear of him not being able to... A movie like this stands or falls with its main star. If he can't make you believe in what he's saying, if he isn't able to evoke emotions the movie already loses half of its appeal. Why oh why did Scott decide to cast Bloom?!  Stupid fangirls...  Oh well, despite being no way near the brilliancy of Braveheart or Gladiator it still seems to be a decent movie, and because i'm a sucker for historical epics i'll still be there opening weekend...
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Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:14 am |
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Kris K
Horror Hound
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:44 pm Posts: 6228
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should open over $40M.
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Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:38 pm |
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Anonymous
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Know nothing about movie, but loved reading about that period of time.
From the quote above seems that most real life characters are in the movie as well, although some events seem to be slightly changed. Sadly, quote above mentions that Saladin will be in just one scene...but on the other hand also says seeing him in start of movie. Could be I've just missunderstood "...in his one scene" line.
For now...opening $34m, total $100m.
P.S. Personally, I'd much more anticipate possible sequel, or completly another movie, from events couple of years later.
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Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:10 am |
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Eagle
Site Owner
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm Posts: 14631 Location: Pittsburgh
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Reviews have made me up my anticipation level.
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Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:35 am |
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Miruvor
Veteran
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:08 pm Posts: 3165 Location: New Zealand
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I just saw a clip with a Neeson/Bloom exchange in the forest. Looked pretty decent to me.
_________________ 'The stars in the sky... Bring tears to my eyes... They're lighting my way... tonight.
And I haven't felt so alive.. In years.'
MOS

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Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:11 am |
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Bodrul
All Star Poster
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:21 am Posts: 4694 Location: Cambridge, England.
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38/153. Good opening, good legs. . . . . . . .
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Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:33 am |
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Miruvor
Veteran
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:08 pm Posts: 3165 Location: New Zealand
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 EXCLUSIVE ONLINE TRAILER
Hey you lot:
This new exclusive online trailer is pretty good. Take a lookie here:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/kingd ... _menu.html
(Though, I must say...many sequences seem to borrow greatly from LOTR. The mask of the King, and the way the Princess conducts herself...from Gladiator)
_________________ 'The stars in the sky... Bring tears to my eyes... They're lighting my way... tonight.
And I haven't felt so alive.. In years.'
MOS

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Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:59 pm |
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Miruvor
Veteran
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:08 pm Posts: 3165 Location: New Zealand
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Hehe.LOLOLOLOlolool
Has anyone seen Archie Gates' new sig? It's a fantastically brilliant KOH scene parody!!
( see below)
'Read threads before commenting Pause and consider before flaming someone Do not use threads as an AIM substitute Edit spelling in the preview mode before posting Make posts that are not stupid so that you may be revered in the eyes of the reader That is your oath
::SMACK::
And that is so you remember it.'
 
_________________ 'The stars in the sky... Bring tears to my eyes... They're lighting my way... tonight.
And I haven't felt so alive.. In years.'
MOS

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Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:35 pm |
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A. G.
Draughty
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:23 am Posts: 13347
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Thanks, Mur. I'm surprised you noticed so quick, I only made that up a couple hours before you posted it.
I have to admit this movie's trailer is growing on me and I don't want it to.
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Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:41 pm |
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Miruvor
Veteran
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:08 pm Posts: 3165 Location: New Zealand
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Archie Gates wrote: Thanks, Mur. I'm surprised you noticed so quick, I only made that up a couple hours before you posted it.  I have to admit this movie's trailer is growing on me and I don't want it to.
I don't miss much Archie! That was fantastic!! Good on you mate!
_________________ 'The stars in the sky... Bring tears to my eyes... They're lighting my way... tonight.
And I haven't felt so alive.. In years.'
MOS

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Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:47 pm |
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Kris K
Horror Hound
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:44 pm Posts: 6228
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I really do think this looks rubbish
Orlando is the most typecast person in hollywood
We have had LOTR, Alexander, Troy, King Arthur and now this...
The trailer music was hilarious
There was really no difference between the trailer for this/kingarthur and alexander...
The tagline over here in the UK is "the motion picture event of the year", what about Star Wars? WOTW, Batman?
It's just annoying me so far.
But yeah, the epic lovers should flock....$40M/$140m
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Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:41 pm |
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mary
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:35 am Posts: 1255
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delete
Last edited by mary on Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:07 am |
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FILMO
The Original
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:19 am Posts: 9808 Location: Suisse
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 Re: EXCLUSIVE ONLINE TRAILER
Mirûvor wrote: Hey you lot: This new exclusive online trailer is pretty good. Take a lookie here: http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/kingd ... _menu.html(Though, I must say...many sequences seem to borrow greatly from LOTR. The mask of the King, and the way the Princess conducts herself...from Gladiator)
They should show that one in the cinema. We got the "Rock Trailer" and people were thinking ..WTF?????
_________________Libs wrote: FILMO, I'd rather have you eat chocolate syrup off my naked body than be a moderator here.
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Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:22 am |
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FILMO
The Original
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:19 am Posts: 9808 Location: Suisse
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Because we dont have it yet I add the Box Chart
(Scream if I got something wrong)
Opening
Impact:45
DP07:42
Erendis:42
FILMO:41,5
Mr.X:40,5
ArchieGates:40
mansonmyers:40
RogueCommander:40
Cotton:40
Eagle:35-45
cujoy:35-40
Dr.Lecter:38,9
Jon Lyrik:38
Riggs27:38
hans:38
Nazgul9:37
MovieDude:36
sako:35+
RB652:32
Zingaling:27,1
MadGez:27
xiayun:26
mary:25
Ragnarok:25
Vovanik:24,2
Nebs:24
alex young:17
Total
Erendis:195
Eagle:160
hans:153
ArchieGates:150
Cotton:150
mansonmyers:140
DP07:137
RogueCommander:135
cujoy:135
FILMO:131
MovieDude:125
Dr.Lecter:121,5
Riggs27:121
sako:113-120
ArchieGates:110-140
Impact:110
Nazgul9:110
Mr.X:107,1
RB652:102
zach:100+
neo Wolf:100
Samweis Gamdschie:100
John Lyrik:95
xiayun:90
Zingaling:89,4
Vovanik:68
MadGez:65
Nebs:65
alex young:54
_________________Libs wrote: FILMO, I'd rather have you eat chocolate syrup off my naked body than be a moderator here.
Last edited by FILMO on Thu May 05, 2005 8:11 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:07 pm |
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zingy
College Boy Z
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:40 pm Posts: 36662
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I'm changing my super-old prediction. This is looking better, and the theater count (estimated) is great.
Opening: $30 million
Total: $90 million
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Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:08 pm |
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mary
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:35 am Posts: 1255
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Zingaling wrote: I'm changing my super-old prediction. This is looking better, and the theater count (estimated) is great.
Opening: $30 million Total: $90 million I think that it is look worse. In fact, this movie isn't tracking well.... http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/Quote: Especially considering that Heaven opens only a week from today (5.6) and research data suggests that average-viewer interest isn't where it should be.
Ask around and opinions vary. Some marketing executives are pessimistic or doubtful, others are uncertain or mildly positive.
...............................................
It was suggested during research on this story that I examine "comparables" to get an idea how Kingdom of Heaven is doing compared to the awareness and interest levels in Gladiator, King Arthur, Troy and The Last Samurai one week before their respective openings.
The figures come from a private industry tracking service called Cinesys, which provides its data to clients through National Research Group (NRG).
Based on telephone polling, it measures levels of unaided awareness (i.e., people knowing about a film without being told what its title is), general awareness, definite interest, and whether or not seeing this or that film is a first-choice selection.
As of today (Friday, 4.29), one week before opening, Kingdom of Heaven's unaided awareness is at 4%, general awareness is at 65 %, definite interest is at 40 % and 7% of the respondents called it a first-choice selection.
A marketing guy says, "One week from the opening and a 7% first choice for a movie of this cost and stature is toilet time, no matter how you look at it."
One week before its 7.7.04 opening, King Arthur's unaided awareness was 4%, general awareness was at 76%, definite interest was at 48%, and 6% called it a first-choice selection. I don't have the whole spreadsheet before me, but the IMDB says that King Arthur took in just over $51 million domestic.
The next three films had big stars in the lead role, so take these comparisons with a grain of salt.
One week before its 5.14.04 opening, Troy's unaided awareness was 17%, general awareness was 84%, definite interest was at 59%, and 18% called it a first-choice selection. Troy took in $133 million in the U.S., but the foreign totals were at least double that.
One week before its 5.5.00 opening, Gladiator's unaided awareness was 6%, general awareness was 75%, definite interest was 44%, and first choice was at 13%. It ended up with about $187 million domestic and a very healthy overseas gross.
One week before its 12.5.03 opening, The Last Samurai's unaided awareness levels were at 9%, general awareness was 81%, definite interest levels were at 42%, and first choice was at 6%. It was a groaner, but it wound up making $111 million domestic.
One way to build up interest in a high-profile film is to run advance rave reviews from major critics or get Time or Newsweek to run a feature story a week or two out. This hasn't happened.
A friend tells me heard a Kingdom of Heaven radio ad this morning that used a plug from CNN talk-show host Larry King. If that isn't a sign of trouble, I don't know what would be.
Last edited by mary on Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:18 pm |
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A. G.
Draughty
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:23 am Posts: 13347
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40/150
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Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:22 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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My current predictions are:
Opening weekend - $38.9 million
Total gross - $121.5 million
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:26 pm |
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Nazgul9
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:32 pm Posts: 11289 Location: Germany
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Wasn't there a special prediction thread for this? I rememeber making an exact prediction somewehere...
Whatever, i'll just make another one, wanted to revise mine anyway. First i went with $40m for opening weekend but there's a feeling in me saying it won't do "that" well, i dunno..., so i'm gonna lower it to $37m, as for its total: $110m. Better lowballing it than the other way round.
_________________
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Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:01 pm |
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xiayun
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:41 pm Posts: 25109 Location: San Mateo, CA
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The trailer does remind me of King Arthur. R-rating will restrict its upper limit. Still, a much better release date than King Arthur, with colleges finishing up around the country, and Ridley Scott has proven himself commerically with Gladiator and Black Hawk Down. Good reviews help too. I see a 34-36M opening.
_________________Recent watched movies: American Hustle - B+ Inside Llewyn Davis - B Before Midnight - A 12 Years a Slave - A- The Hunger Games: Catching Fire - A- My thoughts on box office
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Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:08 pm |
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FILMO
The Original
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:19 am Posts: 9808 Location: Suisse
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I lower opening to 41,5.
_________________Libs wrote: FILMO, I'd rather have you eat chocolate syrup off my naked body than be a moderator here.
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Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:11 pm |
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Miruvor
Veteran
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:08 pm Posts: 3165 Location: New Zealand
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Well, two days to go. It opens on the 5th here in NZ.
_________________ 'The stars in the sky... Bring tears to my eyes... They're lighting my way... tonight.
And I haven't felt so alive.. In years.'
MOS

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Tue May 03, 2005 1:51 am |
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