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Eagle
Site Owner
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm
Posts: 14631
Location: Pittsburgh
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 Re: Stimulus Bill You left out some important parts: Quote: The Isakson provision would provide a tax credit of up to $15,000 for any home bought as a primary residence, for one year after the stimulus bill is signed into law. It would add $19 billion to the package's $900 billion price tag.
The housing amendment, accepted unanimously by a voice vote, also represents an effort by Democratic leaders to reshape the stimulus bill to make it more appealing to Republicans  a necessity in the Senate, where Democrats lack the 60 votes needed for final passage.
A bipartisan group of moderate senators is expected to unveil today an amendment removing tens of billions of dollars in spending provisions that have been criticized for failing to immediately stimulate the economy. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said a final vote on the Senate package could come as early as tonight. But compromise negotiations with the House are likely to extend through next week and could prove contentious, as the Senate bill grows in some areas and contracts in others, compared to the $819 billion House package.
Also Wednesday night, the Senate voted unanimously by voice vote, to tone down a controversial "Buy American" provision that had sparked an uproar among foreign leaders who warned it could lead to a potential trade war. The new language would add the caveat "applied in a manner consistent with U.S. obligations under international agreements," to a requirement that public-works projects funded by stimulus money use only U.S.-made materials. I think this is a very good step in the right direction. The housing credit is a great incentive to get back into the market, I'm glad they didn't restrict it to first time home buyers. Would still like to see more about mortgage relief. _________________
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| Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:23 am |
 
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Beeblebrox
All Star Poster
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm
Posts: 4679
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Re: Stimulus Bill Obama responds to the stimulus criticism:
In the last few days, we've seen proposals arise from some in Congress that you may not have read but you'd be very familiar with because you've been hearing them for the last 10 years, maybe longer. They're rooted in the idea that tax cuts alone can solve all our problems; that government doesn't have a role to play; that half-measures and tinkering are somehow enough; that we can afford to ignore our most fundamental economic challenges -- the crushing cost of health care, the inadequate state of so many of our schools, our dangerous dependence on foreign oil.
So let me be clear: Those ideas have been tested, and they have failed. They've taken us from surpluses to an annual deficit of over a trillion dollars, and they've brought our economy to a halt. And that's precisely what the election we just had was all about. The American people have rendered their judgment. And now is the time to move forward, not back. Now is the time for action.
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| Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:43 pm |
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Jim Halpert
Stanley Cup
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:52 pm
Posts: 6981
Location: Hockey Town
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Re: Stimulus Bill I was reading the usa today this morning and i was cracking up on an article, they had a day by day analysis on what Obama thinks the economy looks like. On January 20th it was a weakened economy yesterday he classified it as a catastrophe.
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| Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:54 pm |
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Eagle
Site Owner
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm
Posts: 14631
Location: Pittsburgh
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Re: Stimulus Bill I agree with Obama's statement to a point in principle: tax cuts alone aren't the answer. Unfortunately, I don't think the bill adequately reflects his position. There has to be a better way to address what he calls fundamental economic challenges than what has been put forth thus far.
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| Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:16 pm |
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STEVE ROGERS
The Greatest Avenger EVER
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:02 am
Posts: 18501
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Re: Stimulus Bill Jesus, look: This stimulus bill clearly needs to be revised and all of you know it.. 112.5 Million for WW2 Veterans of the Phillipines?? 98 Million on Polor Ice cap breakers when, Gee?? The Polar ice caps are melting??  This is merely an example of the crap that needs to be trimmed and doesn't create jobs whatsoever, but feel free to spin this as much as you want folks..
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| Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:49 pm |
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Eagle
Site Owner
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm
Posts: 14631
Location: Pittsburgh
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Re: Stimulus Bill Rumor has it this bill contains 3 Trillion in spending over the next three years.
The bill is needed, but it's not a good one, not in the slightest. Just like TARP, it's being rushed, and it's not focused properly. This can only go wrong for Democrats if you ask me. If it works, they get little to no praise because they spent a ton of taxpayer money, but if it fails, they end up taking the brunt of the backlash.
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| Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:31 pm |
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Beeblebrox
All Star Poster
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm
Posts: 4679
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Re: Stimulus Bill Eagle wrote: The bill is needed, but it's not a good one, not in the slightest. Just like TARP, it's being rushed, and it's not focused properly. Didn't you support and defend TARP?
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| Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:32 pm |
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Eagle
Site Owner
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm
Posts: 14631
Location: Pittsburgh
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Re: Stimulus Bill Yeah, I did.
The need was there, you couldn't let those banks fail, our financial system would have been in ruin. Unfortunately, the use of TARP and the regulation guarding that use was significantly lacking. It's still better than the alternative, but it could have been a lot better.
I feel this bill is heading the same way.
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| Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:43 pm |
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Beeblebrox
All Star Poster
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm
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Re: Stimulus Bill Eagle wrote: Yeah, I did.
The need was there, you couldn't let those banks fail, our financial system would have been in ruin. Unfortunately, the use of TARP and the regulation guarding that use was significantly lacking. It's still better than the alternative, but it could have been a lot better.
I feel this bill is heading the same way. Heading the same way as the TARP? Which means you'll support and defend it? Because it doesn't sound like you're supporting or defending it. Isn't it better than the alternative? And for all your whining about that $20 billion in "pork". Did you know that the Bush administration overpaid for those bank assets by $78 billion? That's the stimulus you supported. And yet this one you think is filled with waste and headed in the wrong direction?
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| Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:47 pm |
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Eagle
Site Owner
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm
Posts: 14631
Location: Pittsburgh
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Re: Stimulus Bill I support this one as well, though the more I hear, the less I like. Regardless, I support it because I think it's a need for the economy. I really think that we're getting close to a bottom, and this and the financial bill on Monday could turn the tide.
As I understand it, the bill is about 40-43% tax cuts and another 54 to 58% in government spending. We simply don't know the breakdown as of yet, so it's hard to discuss with any merit. I will say that from all I've seen, the spending aspect of the bill seems to be off the mark.
One of the big positives is the Alternative Minimum Tax fix, which was really hurting the mid to upper middle class regions I discussed earlier.
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| Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:15 pm |
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Beeblebrox
All Star Poster
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm
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Re: Stimulus Bill Eagle wrote: I will say that from all I've seen, the spending aspect of the bill seems to be off the mark. I think if anything it's probably too little. The fear is that undercutting the spending will make it difficult to get more spending in the future. That's probably true if things don't improve. But I think that if the economy shows some improvement in the next six months, it won't be that hard to get an additional supplemental spending package. Quote: One of the big positives is the Alternative Minimum Tax fix, which was really hurting the mid to upper middle class regions I discussed earlier. Yes, your deep concern for the top 5% income bracket is well documented. 
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| Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:23 pm |
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Beeblebrox
All Star Poster
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm
Posts: 4679
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Re: Stimulus Bill
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| Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:08 am |
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Eagle
Site Owner
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm
Posts: 14631
Location: Pittsburgh
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Re: Stimulus Bill Heh, I love how they keep saying a 'deal' has been reached. Call it as it is, they found 3 Republicans to cross party lines.
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| Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:13 am |
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Beeblebrox
All Star Poster
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm
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Re: Stimulus Bill Eagle wrote: Heh, I love how they keep saying a 'deal' has been reached. Call it as it is, they found 3 Republicans to cross party lines. That's all they needed. Most of the rest of the Republicans in the Senate are only slightly less of a joke than the Republicans in the House. Their "alternative" bill was NOTHING but tax cuts. They are a farce.
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| Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:46 am |
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Groucho
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm
Posts: 12096
Location: Stroudsburg, PA
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Re: Stimulus Bill Republicans always think tax cuts solve everything, and it never has. Give tax cuts to business and they invest it overseas or give bonuses to their CEOs.
Besides, what good is a tax cut to someone who has no job, whose home is in foreclosure, and who lost all their 401K? Gimme a break.
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| Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:56 pm |
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Eagle
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm
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Location: Pittsburgh
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Re: Stimulus Bill True to a point, but this is a stimulus bill, and those tax cuts were put in there in the initial bill by Obama. Republicans mainly removed a few spending projects, added the Alternative Minimum Tax Fix, added a housing credit and then walked away from the bill.
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| Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:55 pm |
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Beeblebrox
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm
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Re: Stimulus Bill Eagle wrote: True to a point, but this is a stimulus bill, and those tax cuts were put in there in the initial bill by Obama. Republicans mainly removed a few spending projects, added the Alternative Minimum Tax Fix, added a housing credit and then walked away from the bill. They watered down a bill they were never going to vote for anyway. Why Obama is even humoring these fucking numbskulls at this point is beyond me.
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| Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:00 am |
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Eagle
Site Owner
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm
Posts: 14631
Location: Pittsburgh
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Re: Stimulus Bill Beeblebrox wrote: Eagle wrote: True to a point, but this is a stimulus bill, and those tax cuts were put in there in the initial bill by Obama. Republicans mainly removed a few spending projects, added the Alternative Minimum Tax Fix, added a housing credit and then walked away from the bill. They watered down a bill they were never going to vote for anyway. Why Obama is even humoring these fucking numbskulls at this point is beyond me. Yeah, I agree. If you were going to push a bill through with no Republican support, at least make it the bill YOU want. Don't get me wrong, I think all the changes were good ones, but the process was a bit odd. _________________
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| Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:33 am |
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getluv
i break the rules, so i don't care
Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 4:28 pm
Posts: 20411
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Re: Stimulus Bill Eagle wrote: I don't know about that. Here is the GOP list of what they consider non-stimulating fluff in the bill: Quote: • $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.
• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.
• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.
• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).
• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.
• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.
• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.
• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.
• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.
• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.
• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.
• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.
• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."
• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.
• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.
• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.
• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.
• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.
• $500 million for state and local fire stations.
• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.
• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.
• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.
• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.
• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.
• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.
• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.
• $850 million for Amtrak.
• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.
• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.
• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.
• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.
That totals up to over 2% of the bill, and 2% of 820 Billion is ... a heck of a lot of money, over $20 billion, and a damn big molehill. As with the previous ones mentioned, some have merit, but not as part of a stimulus bill. I think there are 3 listed above that I would actually probably keep, the rest needs to go. I've said it from the start: There's just too much garbage attached to this bill, needless thing that do NOTHING to stimulate the economy. Like, I get that the damn Census is going to cost about 4 billion more than expected, but craft a SEPERATE bill to give the FULL funding needed, as opposed to adding 1 billion here, another billion on the next bill, etc. It's ridiculous, but hey, if they made things that transparent then how could one person run commercials saying they voted FOR something while their opponent runs another commercial saying they voted AGAINST the same damn thing. I disagree. You do understand when new buildings and cars are bult they require more resources, and therefore demand increases for these resources, which require more employees needed to be hired to ascertain these resources as well as transport them. I do think infrastructure programs are the way to go, and upgrading public school services and colleges is also a good thing.
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| Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:59 am |
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getluv
i break the rules, so i don't care
Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 4:28 pm
Posts: 20411
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Re: Stimulus Bill Also tax breaks aren't really necessary in these times, and a budget going into deficit during these hard times is kind of necessary.
Tax breaks should only be given during times when the budget is in surplus.
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| Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:04 am |
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Timayd
The 5th B-Sharp
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 1506
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Re: Stimulus Bill The compromise messed up the bill pretty badly. My Dad (an elementary school principal) is still pissed. It's a bloodbath for schools out there right now, and now we have police, fire, education are at each others throats with competing overrides. State Aid is right up there with infrastructure, we're getting close to the point where education will suffer.
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| Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:21 am |
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Groucho
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm
Posts: 12096
Location: Stroudsburg, PA
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Re: Stimulus Bill Timayd wrote: The compromise messed up the bill pretty badly. My Dad (an elementary school principal) is still pissed. It's a bloodbath for schools out there right now, and now we have police, fire, education are at each others throats with competing overrides. State Aid is right up there with infrastructure, we're getting close to the point where education will suffer. And Republicans are arguing with a straight face that if we only had tax cuts everything would be solved! I haven't figured out yet how tax cuts will help us pay for schools, teachers, police, and firefighters. _________________Buy my books! http://michaelaventrella.com
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| Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:37 am |
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Eagle
Site Owner
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm
Posts: 14631
Location: Pittsburgh
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Re: Stimulus Bill I don't know of a single Republican sitting anywhere saying that tax cuts alone are the answer.
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| Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:16 pm |
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Jim Halpert
Stanley Cup
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:52 pm
Posts: 6981
Location: Hockey Town
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Re: Stimulus Bill Tax cuts are defiantly not the only answer. I'm in support of a stimulus package, I still think its incredibly too big. Did they decide to keep the 15k tax credit if you buy a house?
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| Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:45 pm |
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Beeblebrox
All Star Poster
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm
Posts: 4679
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Re: Stimulus Bill Eagle wrote: I don't know of a single Republican sitting anywhere saying that tax cuts alone are the answer. Have they said ANYTHING else regarding the stimulus except "more tax cuts more tax cuts more tax cuts"? Oh, they did say that the stimulus package was not a stimulus but a spending bill. Genius.
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| Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:53 pm |
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