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 Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians 
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The Original
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
Seems the invasion has begun.

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Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:20 am
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
Here's an online opinion piece that I think gives a sensible perspective on this story:

Quote:
They hate us for our bombs
Rick Salutin
January 2, 2009

A letter I received last year rebuked me for calling George Bush's explanation of 9/11 – They hate us for our freedoms – “doltish.” Its writer said leaders must speak concisely and simply. “What would you say?” he challenged. I've chewed on this and chosen: “They hate us for our bombs.” It came to me during the bombing of Gaza this week. I use “hate” to parallel the Bush usage. “Consider us their enemies,” would be better.

This is so in Kandahar, where Canadians keep dying, and “they,” or some of them, don't hate us for our good intentions, but for the bombs that land on wedding parties. It's so in Gaza, where people often show bomb remnants marked “Made in U.S.A.” That's why they see “us” as enemies, like Israel. That, plus “our” support for Israel's bombing. George Bush said it was fine with him. “No comment,” said Barack Obama, squandering some of the goodwill toward him. “First and foremost, those rocket attacks must stop,” said Canada's Foreign Minister. It's the “first and foremost” that invited rage. Most people, including Palestinians, know that rocketing others is bad – but so is being bombed. This is about understanding how people think, not debating it.

Or consider this. Gaza is roughly half the area of Toronto, with a population closing in on 60 per cent of Toronto's. To get comparable deaths for the current assault, you'd somewhat less than double: 450 there would be like 750 here, etc. In the first hour of bombing last Saturday, the morgues ran out of room. Then a university, mosques and a TV station were bombed.

The ratios between Palestinian and Israeli dead run between 100 and 150 to one, and have since Israel “withdrew” in 2005. That huge disparity is the difference between bombs and far less damaging rockets. It's what happens when you leave a place, surround it, close it off like a prison and bomb it at will.

Context also matters, and how the bombed see the motives of the bombers.

In a 2006 election that everyone agrees was fair, Palestinians chose a Hamas government. “We” immediately withheld aid to show disapproval.

Israel illegally withheld revenues like customs. The U.S. built up anti-Hamas forces. A virtual Palestinian civil war ensued, and Hamas took over Gaza, not exactly first prize. Israel tightened its existing Gaza blockade on most goods and all exports with the explicit purpose, repeated this week by its Prime Minister to explain the bombing, of pressuring Gazans to turn on Hamas. This amounts to punishing innocent people for political ends, which is pretty close to the conventional definition of terrorism.

Let me add, quick as a bunny, that I find “those rockets” sent by Hamas into Israeli kindergartens and bus stops just as odious as those bombs smashing Gaza. Terror is terror, it always sucks. Ordinary people deserve to live their lives unterrorized. Plus, in the case of Palestinians, mass non-violent protest would be far more effective than puny rockets. There is room for peaceful compromise on every side – it's all on the record – but the leaders choose to go other routes and “we” – the West – are likely the only ones who could apply the necessary pressure but we won't, or haven't. So in a way, “our” hands are bloodiest of all, since we have so little to lose.

Osama bin Laden says he sat in Beirut in 1982 watching U.S. bombs smash the “towers of Lebanon” and decided “they” would only stop doing it when it was done back to them. And an Israeli minister said last February that Hamas's rockets would bring upon Gaza a “holocaust.” Of course, both were wrong, factually and morally. But it seems utterly typical of human beings to want to do unto others as was done to them. It makes you realize how radical, and even unnatural, is that rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I used to think it was trite, and obvious.


Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:56 am
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
When even Jon Stewart gives Israel and it's US media servants a public dressing down on The Daily Show last night, the tide might actually be beginning to turn...


Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:49 pm
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
Bradley Witherberry wrote:
When even Jon Stewart gives Israel and it's US media servants a public dressing down on The Daily Show last night, the tide might actually be beginning to turn...

Do you say "even John Stewart" because he is Jewish?


Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:59 pm
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
Caius wrote:
Do you say "even John Stewart" because he is Jewish?

Heh. The anti-semite shtick is getting tiresome. I was referring to his current role as a truth-teller in American media...


(Fun Fact: The word "shtick" is originally Yiddish - - could this be another secret anti-Jewish attack by Bradley?!?!?)


Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:07 pm
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
Bradley Witherberry wrote:
Caius wrote:
Do you say "even John Stewart" because he is Jewish?

Heh. The anti-semite shtick is getting tiresome. I was referring to his current role as a truth-teller in American media...


(Fun Fact: The word "shtick" is originally Yiddish - - could this be another secret anti-Jewish attack by Bradley?!?!?)

Well if he is the current "truth-teller", why did you preface it with "even" Jon Stewart? And if you mean he really is a truth-teller, why the ellipsis or is that just some lame condemnation of the media in general?


Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:27 pm
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Indiana Jones IV
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
I'm attending a protest in San Juan on Thursday with my Arab friends.

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Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:30 pm
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
junio wrote:
I'm attending a protest in San Juan on Thursday with my Arab friends.


Eres un estudiante de la UPR?


Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:45 am
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
No. Estudie en Sagrado y me graude el ano pasado.

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Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:09 am
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
Groucho wrote:

Seriously, like I said, I am no foreign policy expert here, but I really can't figure out all the anti-Israel feeling here. I often wonder if its based in anti-semitism, because if this stuff had happened in the US, I think we would all support the exact same things Israel is doing.


I guess you are going to call Jimmy Carter a bigot too for criticizing Israel's policy


Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:31 pm
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
El Murato wrote:


I guess you are going to call Jimmy Carter a bigot too for criticizing Israel's policy


Maybe not a bigot, but an idiot.

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Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:21 pm
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
Groucho wrote:
...if this stuff had happened in the US, I think we would all support the exact same things Israel is doing.


You're probably right there.

WWII internment camps for Japanese-American citizens come to mind - - not unlike Gaza itself, which is a veritable prison camp. Then of course, there was the US nuclear bombing killing 200,000+ civilian women and children in Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

So yes, there is historical precedent from the US for this sort of terrorism...


Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:39 pm
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Jordan Mugen-Honda
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
Didn't we have a big debate about the nuclear bombing Brad? I'm asking seriously here I vaguely remember me and you sparring over it once.

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Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
Gulli wrote:
Didn't we have a big debate about the nuclear bombing Brad? I'm asking seriously here I vaguely remember me and you sparring over it once.

Possibly - - if the search function worked worth a damn, we could find out - - but in general, I'm not very tolerant of WMD apologists, especially when it comes to their use on civilian populations...

Anyways, some hopeful news on the Gaza front - - Israel is facing growing demands from senior UN officials and human rights groups for an international war crimes investigation in Gaza...

Quote:
With the death toll from the 17-day Israeli assault on Gaza climbing above 900, pressure is increasing for an independent inquiry into specific incidents, such as the shelling of a UN school turned refugee centre where about 40 people died, as well as the question of whether the military tactics used by Israel systematically breached humanitarian law.

Israeli military actions prompted an unusual public rebuke from the International Red Cross after the army moved a Palestinian family into a building and shelled it, killing 30. The surviving children clung to the bodies of their dead mothers for four days while the army blocked rescuers from reaching the wounded.


Perhaps Obama will have the cohones to stand up against Israel's horrific human rights abuses - - unlikely, I know, but he has not given his full position on this situation yet...


Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:58 pm
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
I wonder what the war crimes commission will find in Gaza? Perhaps something like this?

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Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:10 pm
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
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Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:00 pm
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
That Hamas caricature with the large nose is taken right out of the Nazi drawing book on Jews.

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Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:17 pm
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
Krem wrote:
I wonder what the war crimes commission will find in Gaza? Perhaps something like this?


no, probably lots and lots of white phosphorus

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Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:53 pm
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Post Re: Breaking News: Israel kills over 150 palastinians
From now on, every fucker on every side who uses the "this is worse" or "they did this to us" or "this is a just historical parallel" arguments should be shot dead on sight.


I'm looking at you, Alan Dershowitz. The Israelis atm are Winston Churchill. Get it? The Palestinians are fucking Nazis.

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Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:44 pm
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