Register  |  Sign In
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Tue May 13, 2025 4:38 pm



Reply to topic  [ 606 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 25  Next
 Prop 8 discussion thread: Upheld 
Author Message
i break the rules, so i don't care
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 4:28 pm
Posts: 20411
Post Prop 8 discussion thread: Upheld
so i read somewhere that 77% of the money supporting Prop 8 is coming from the Mormons in Utah.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la ... 5703.story

Quote:
While California voters remain closely divided on the question of gay marriage, a majority oppose a measure to ban it, according to a poll released Wednesday by the Public Policy Institute of California.

But the poll also found that support for Proposition 8, which would amend the state Constitution to disallow same-sex marriage, has gained somewhat since a similar survey was taken in late August. The latest results show 44% in favor and 52% opposed, with a margin of sampling error of 3 percentage points.

Recent polls commissioned by groups for and against the initiative have showed it passing, though most political analysts put less faith in polls funded by partisans than in those conducted by independent groups like the Public Policy Institute.

The institute's president, Mark Baldassare, predicted that the election would be close. Polls on the more general question of how voters feel about gays and lesbians marrying have consistently shown a deeply divided electorate, with voters split almost evenly and passionate feelings on both sides.

With huge turnout expected from younger voters and independents, the election is filled with uncertainties, and polling experts say it poses special challenges for pollsters.

Other findings of the poll include:

* Likely voters remained closely divided on Proposition 4, a constitutional amendment that would prohibit girls under 18 from getting abortions without their parents being notified. The poll found 46% in favor, 44% against and 10% undecided.

* Nearly one-quarter of voters remain undecided on Proposition 11, a ballot measure backed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger that would set up an independent commission to redraw boundaries for legislative districts. The poll found 41% in favor, 34% opposed.

* Four out of five voters said they were worried about the state budget. Fourty-four percent say they support fixing the budget gap with a mix of spending cuts and tax increases while 37% say they want to see mostly spending cuts.

The findings were based on telephone surveys of 1,186 likely voters between Oct. 12 and 19.

The Proposition 8 battle has emerged as the most expensive of all of this year's ballot measure campaigns, and has aroused strong passions on both sides. As of Wednesday, Yes on 8 campaign committees had raised $26.7 million while the No on 8 committees had brought in $26.1 million

The California Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage in May, ruling that the state Constitution's promise of equal protection affords gays and lesbians the same right to marry as heterosexual couples. The ruling overturned Proposition 22, passed by voters in 2000, which defined marriage as only between a man and a woman. By amending the Constitution, Proposition 8 would remove the basis for the court's ruling.

Same-sex couples began marrying in June. Many religious leaders and other opponents of same-sex marriage have worked hard since then to pass Proposition 8.

Campaign contributions from out of state are flooding into California -- in part because the state is considered a bellwether, and what happens here could shape the future of gay marriage across the country. Only one other state, Massachusetts, allows same-sex marriage, although the high court in Connecticut recently ruled that gays should be allowed to marry there.

Baldassare, the president of the Public Policy Institute, said his poll also found that those in favor of the proposition tend to be more passionate than those on the other side.

Sonja Eddings Brown, spokeswoman for Yes on 8, dismissed the new poll results. "Every other poll that we have seen has shown us" winning, she said, including polling released by the No on 8 side a few weeks ago as part of a fundraising campaign that showed the proposition with a narrow lead.

Charles Franklin, a political science professor at the University of Wisconsin and a developer of Pollster.com, said different polls could produce different outcomes depending on "how you ask the question."

This could be particularly true of Proposition 8, he noted, because many voters have expressed confusion about what yes and no votes mean. A yes vote would ban same-sex marriage, while a no vote would preserve it.

Steve Smith, the campaign manager for the effort to defeat the measure, had another explanation for diverging poll results: People keep changing their minds.

Although many voters on both sides know exactly how they are going to cast their ballots, a chunk of voters in the middle are not just undecided but "conflicted," he believes, on the question of whether to ban gay marriage. People are "moving back and forth on this," he said. "It's a very volatile electorate."


Last edited by getluv on Tue May 26, 2009 3:53 pm, edited 8 times in total.



Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:16 am
Profile
ha ha, charade you are
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:05 pm
Posts: 2210
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
iluv wrote:
so i read somewhere that 77% of the money supporting Prop 8 is coming from the Mormons in Utah.


Actually, the correct way to phrase it is that the money is coming from members of the Mormon Church who live in CA. There's ~750,000 that live there (or something like that I think). The money came from them, not the Church itself that is based in Utah. Though the amount the people in CA donated wouldn't surprise me as there are some affluent members there.

_________________
Floydboy


Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:37 pm
Profile
i break the rules, so i don't care
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 4:28 pm
Posts: 20411
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
as if you'd waste ur money on that.


Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:14 pm
Profile
ha ha, charade you are
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:05 pm
Posts: 2210
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
I sure don't have money to waste on that. However, I guess if people are millionares they may have extra $$ to donate to what they choose.

_________________
Floydboy


Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:17 pm
Profile
All Star Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm
Posts: 4679
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
It took far too long for opponents of Prop 8 to get their butts in gear. I hope that they were not too late. They've just kicked in some big ad dollars to combat the lies and bigotry of the Prop 8 proponents.


Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:16 pm
Profile WWW
Romosexual!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:06 am
Posts: 32582
Location: the last free city
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
Image

_________________
Is it 2028 yet?


Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:58 pm
Profile
Stanley Cup
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:52 pm
Posts: 6981
Location: Hockey Town
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
i'm a little in the dark on this prop.

A few years back the Cali citizens voted to keep marriage between man and women.

Then the courts overturned it.

Now Prop 8 is to decide if they will amend to make marriage between and man and woman.

So is a vote yes for prop 8 mean that you support marriage to be between a man and woman only?


Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:05 pm
Profile
Forum General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:14 am
Posts: 9966
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
YES on Prop 8 has been running the dirtiest and most manipulative campaign at the very least of this entire election and probably one of the worst in recent California history.

Not only are their commercials comprised of FLAT-OUT lies, twists of the truth, exaggerations, and irrelevant information, but they have started calling No on 8 supporters and convincing them to vote YES if they support marriage for same-sex couples, which is ILLEGAL. Unfortunately, not much can be done about it now.

And by the way, one of my close friends recently got a call from the YES on 8 people telling him to vote yes to support equality. I mean, I was outraged when I heard the reports, but when you have such a close first-hand experience with it, it really does something to you.

I don't get it. Aren't these people CHRISTIANS? (That's a rhetorical question, please don't answer it =P)

Anyway. Probably the most effective thing the Yes on 8 people have done has been to turn Prop 8 into an issue it is NOT ABOUT. They have made the ENTIRE campaign on both sides now focus on children and teaching about same-sex marriage in schools.

Prop 8 says NOTHING about schools or children. Look in the voter guide where they have the actual texts of the props. Some of the props are like 20 pages long. Prop 8 is the shortest, literally a paragraph. The only thing it says is that it will amend the state constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman and by doing so indoctrinating a separate but equal institution of marriage.

Yes, Massachusetts does allow to teach about this in schools and sometimes parents can't object. And they keep citing this over and over and over again. California is not Massachusetts. We have different laws and codes when it comes to schools and what gets taught. In CA, the school districts, Education Code, and above all, parents choose what gets taught to our children. And parents have the option of opting their kids out of any teaching about family, marriage, etc. Parents have wayyyy more control over this stuff here than in MA.

And now the newest commercial on the YES side which attacks our commercial (with CA state school superintendent actually saying children have nothing to do with the prop) claims in San Francisco 1st graders were taken to one of their teachers' same-sex wedding and that it's already happening.

FACT: The idea for this field trip was brought up by a PARENT
FACT: As with all field trips, permission slips had to be signed by parents
FACT: Families of two students held their children from going. NO ONE WAS FORCED TO GO.
FACT: Prop 8 actually has no effect on this. If the school found it "educational," this would still happen EVEN if Prop 8 manages to pass. Prop 8 will NOT change anything about what gets taught in schools so the same things that are allowed now will still be allowed after November 5th.

As of only 2 weeks ago, the NO side's fund-raising was trailing the YES side. It was $25 million to our $15 million.

In the past week and a half, money has been POURING in for our side. As of Friday night, the numbers were:

NO on 8: $32.2 million
YES on 8: $27.5 million

Hopefully, we can use this money to counter their ridiculous and immoral campaign.

I have easily given about 20+ hours of every week this month volunteering for NO on 8 and running my club (Student Coalition for Marriage Equality). I'm so exhausted at this point that it has been affecting my school and my health. If Prop 8 passes, I know a sizable chunk of my optimistic/hopeful character/demeanor will die with it. I can't imagine living in a world or a state that in THIS DAY AND AGE allows for such BLATANT illegal and immoral action ESPECIALLY in the hands of those who deem themselves the most moral of all people to prevail.

By the way, the LA Times website has a GREAT resource on tracking funding for both sides and which areas of CA are giving the most, how much is from out os state and even searching through every person who has donated.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-moneymap,0,2198220.htmlstory

_________________
Top Movies of 2009
1. Hurt Locker / 2. (500) Days of Summer / 3. Sunshine Cleaning / 4. Up / 5. I Love You, Man

Top Anticipated 2009
1. Nine


Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:09 pm
Profile
Romosexual!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:06 am
Posts: 32582
Location: the last free city
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California ... on_8_(2008)
Quote:
Proposition 8 is an initiative measure on the 2008 California General Election ballot titled Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry.[1][2] If passed, the proposition would "change the California Constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry in California." [3] A new section would be added stating "only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California." [3]

_________________
Is it 2028 yet?


Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:10 pm
Profile
Forum General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:14 am
Posts: 9966
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
Jim Halpert wrote:
i'm a little in the dark on this prop.

A few years back the Cali citizens voted to keep marriage between man and women.

Then the courts overturned it.

Now Prop 8 is to decide if they will amend to make marriage between and man and woman.

So is a vote yes for prop 8 mean that you support marriage to be between a man and woman only?


Yes. And unlike many other props and measures that have passed across the U.S. in recent years, this is the first time that if passed, such a measure would actually TAKE AWAY rights that are already available to people.

There is no way around it. A YES vote literally means SEPARATE BUT EQUAL.

And the judges overturned the 2000 measure because they found it to be unconstitutional. In the 50's, 75%+ supported a ban on interracial marriage.

I am all for the people's vote but when it comes to the fundamental rights of people, especially minorities, then I am not willing to put that up to the decision of the majority. The checks and balances of our nation was made to ensure something like this doesn't happen. The judges were not doing anything out of the ordinary.

_________________
Top Movies of 2009
1. Hurt Locker / 2. (500) Days of Summer / 3. Sunshine Cleaning / 4. Up / 5. I Love You, Man

Top Anticipated 2009
1. Nine


Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:14 pm
Profile
Stanley Cup
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:52 pm
Posts: 6981
Location: Hockey Town
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
so right now according to the poll, the No side is leading?


Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:15 pm
Profile
i break the rules, so i don't care
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 4:28 pm
Posts: 20411
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
why doesn't NO on 8 talk about the financial advantages of having same sex marriages, especially with the economy in the toilet.

anyway i hope more celebrities come out. becuz i do think Hollywood celebrities do have a lotta pull there, than they would anywhere else.

its kinda of the dumbest thing a Democrat would vote Obama and support this, i always thought liberals used more of the brain.


Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:51 pm
Profile
Stanley Cup
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:52 pm
Posts: 6981
Location: Hockey Town
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
Raffiki wrote:
Jim Halpert wrote:
i'm a little in the dark on this prop.

A few years back the Cali citizens voted to keep marriage between man and women.

Then the courts overturned it.

Now Prop 8 is to decide if they will amend to make marriage between and man and woman.

So is a vote yes for prop 8 mean that you support marriage to be between a man and woman only?


Yes. And unlike many other props and measures that have passed across the U.S. in recent years, this is the first time that if passed, such a measure would actually TAKE AWAY rights that are already available to people.

There is no way around it. A YES vote literally means SEPARATE BUT EQUAL.

And the judges overturned the 2000 measure because they found it to be unconstitutional. In the 50's, 75%+ supported a ban on interracial marriage.

I am all for the people's vote but when it comes to the fundamental rights of people, especially minorities, then I am not willing to put that up to the decision of the majority. The checks and balances of our nation was made to ensure something like this doesn't happen. The judges were not doing anything out of the ordinary.



hmmmmm. interesting.


Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:56 pm
Profile
The 5th B-Sharp
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 1506
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
Nate Silver has some great analysis (as always)

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/prop-8-toss-up.html

I'm really glad Mittens didn't get Gay Marriage on the ballot like he wanted to. I'd like to think we would have protected gay marriage, but I don't know.


Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:57 pm
Profile
je vois l'avenir
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:33 pm
Posts: 3841
Location: Hollywood/Berkeley, CA
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
Well in Berkeley, Prop 8 is definitely a big topic, and most people are voting NO, as am I. But I have heard some people who are not sure about it, and their reason is pretty obvious and stupid.

Seriously, just because you are not gay, doesn't mean you should belittle them. I think people forget that the prop is against equality.

_________________
"Voici mon secret. Il est très simple: on ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux."

----Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (Le Petit Prince)

A Lonely Person is at Home Everywhere.


Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:19 pm
Profile
Jordan Mugen-Honda
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:53 am
Posts: 13403
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
I find it interesting that Obama hasn't come out and vocally supported No on Prop 8 lately. Could it be due to the fact a large percentage of the black population in California are against it?

_________________
Rosberg was reminded of the fuel regulations by his wheel's ceasing to turn. The hollow noise from the fuel tank and needle reading zero had failed to convay this message


Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:32 pm
Profile
Don't Dream It, Be It
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:45 pm
Posts: 37162
Location: The Graveyard
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
Obama does NOT support Gay Marriage though, and he does define legal marriage being between a man and a woman. He supports civil unions, like most DEMS do, but very few DEMS support Gay Marriage, openly at least. And I would think Obama, if he had to decide, would vote YES on this, no, am I missing something?

_________________
Japan Box Office

“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:36 pm
Profile WWW
Jordan Mugen-Honda
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:53 am
Posts: 13403
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
No Obama supports No he's just very low key about it.

_________________
Rosberg was reminded of the fuel regulations by his wheel's ceasing to turn. The hollow noise from the fuel tank and needle reading zero had failed to convay this message


Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:54 pm
Profile
The 5th B-Sharp
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 1506
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
Obama's against proposition 8, but without research you wouldn't know it.
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Civil_Rights.htm#Gay_Rights

He's also come out many times against constitutional marriage amendments banning it.


Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:42 pm
Profile
Extraordinary

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:41 pm
Posts: 25109
Location: San Mateo, CA
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
Just voted No today.

_________________
Recent watched movies:

American Hustle - B+
Inside Llewyn Davis - B
Before Midnight - A
12 Years a Slave - A-
The Hunger Games: Catching Fire - A-

My thoughts on box office


Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:23 pm
Profile WWW
Indiana Jones IV
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 2:23 pm
Posts: 1778
Location: Guaynabo, Puerto Rico
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
Everyone needs to vote No on this wretch.

_________________
Image


Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:14 pm
Profile WWW
All Star Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm
Posts: 4679
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
Jim Halpert wrote:
A few years back the Cali citizens voted to keep marriage between man and women.

Then the courts overturned it.

Now Prop 8 is to decide if they will amend to make marriage between and man and woman.

So is a vote yes for prop 8 mean that you support marriage to be between a man and woman only?


Originally, there was a referendum that banned gay marriage. It was challenged almost immediately and was eventually overturned by the CA courts as unconstitutional.

Prop 8 addresses this by making the gay marriage ban an amendment to the CA Constitution, which would mean that it could only be overturned by another amendment, not the legislature or the courts.


Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:46 pm
Profile WWW
Wall-E
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:25 pm
Posts: 855
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
My understanding of YES on 8 is that it is being pushed by an ambulance chaser from Florida.
These 'morality groups' like family media watchdog groups, etc. make millions on appeals for donations through websites and the mail with phony scare tactics. They ought to be banned from campaigning in California. They do not live here.
Of course the reason outside groups are on the attack is, apart from millions in donations, the federal Constitution promises that the privileges of citizens in any State shall be extended to the citizens of the several States, so when same-sex marriage is upheld in California or another State, then it is the privilege of anyone in any State to do and have the respect for the same.

Why is this POS still on the ballot? Where are the No on 8 lawyers? Seems to me that the placing on the ballot of this Amendment constitutes both an Alliance (a group of special interests for the group, personal morality, etc.) and an act of Confederacy (an action taken by an objecting group in order to attack another segment of The People against the common goals of Liberty and Justice for All, and Privacy via the State Constitution) on the part of the voters at the State level. And then there is The 9th and 14th Amendments which stand above the powers of the State.
Somebody should attempt an 11th hour injunction.

_________________
And he said to the lady, "I love the crushed eggs. Are they yours?
To which the lady replied, "No. Not the eggs."


Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:53 pm
Profile WWW
All Star Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm
Posts: 4679
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread


Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:01 pm
Profile WWW
Forum General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:14 am
Posts: 9966
Post Re: The Prop 8 discussion thread
Beeblebrox wrote:


I wonder if that's an actual ad on TV. I haven't seen it and it's a minute long while all the ones I've seen are 30 seconds.

_________________
Top Movies of 2009
1. Hurt Locker / 2. (500) Days of Summer / 3. Sunshine Cleaning / 4. Up / 5. I Love You, Man

Top Anticipated 2009
1. Nine


Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:12 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 606 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 25  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.