US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
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Eagle
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 US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Quote: BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- U.S. and Iraqi negotiators have reached agreement on a proposal calling for a complete U.S. military withdrawal from Iraq by 2012, the head Iraqi negotiator said Friday.
The deal still must be approved by both sides, said Mohammed al-Haj Hamoud, deputy foreign minister and head of the Iraqi negotiating team.
Hamoud said Thursday's meeting between U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki was helpful in reaching the tentative agreement.
Hamoud said the proposal also says the last date for the presence of U.S. troops in cities and towns will be June 30, 2009.
There are clear caveats, however.
If the Iraqi government sees the necessity of keeping the American forces in cities and towns or in Iraq past December 31, 2011, it would ask that the Americans stay. A joint Iraqi-U.S. committee would help define the duration and number of forces that would be needed and regularly assess the security situation on the ground.
Regarding the issue of troop immunity from Iraqi law and American authority over military operations, American authorities would have jurisdiction over their troops. Hamoud also said that in case of a major crime such as murder, the case would be reviewed by a U.S.-Iraqi joint committee.
As for detainee authority, any kind of detention must be ordered by a judge under Iraqi law. Detainees must be delivered to Iraqi authorities within 24 hours of their arrests by both Iraqi and American forces. This would go into effect January 1, when the U.N. mandate outlining the presence of U.S.-led coalition troops expires.
Asked to comment on Friday on these remarks, a U.S. Embassy spokeswoman said Rice noted progress toward hammering out a pact.
After Rice met with al-Maliki, she and Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari briefed reporters. Zebari said both sides were "very close" to finalizing the agreement. Rice said that what had been formulated up to that point was a "very good agreement."
She said that the "ultimate goal is to have Iraqi forces responsible for the security of Iraq" and that they agreed to "some goals, some aspirational timetables" for troop withdrawals would be worth for having.
"What we're trying to do is to put together an agreement that protects our people, that respects Iraqi sovereignty, that allows us to lay the kind of foundation that we need for making certain that we complete the work that we've all sacrificed so greatly to see accomplished, and that work is being accomplished," she said.

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Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:10 am |
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Beeblebrox
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm Posts: 4679
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Great news indeed.
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:24 pm |
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Jim Halpert
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Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:52 pm Posts: 6981 Location: Hockey Town
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
excellent.
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:25 pm |
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Beeblebrox
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Obama's response. It's a pretty good one.
I am glad that the Administration has finally shifted to accepting a timetable for the removal of our combat troops from Iraq. Success in Iraq depends on an Iraqi government that is reconciling its differences and taking responsibility for its future, and a timetable is the best way to press the Iraqis to do just that. I welcome the growing convergence around this pragmatic and responsible position.
This agreement is still draft and vital pieces of it must be finalized, so I will reserve final judgment on the agreement until it is complete. The agreement needs to be carefully reviewed, and must include immunity for U.S. troops and Defense Department personnel from Iraqi jurisdiction. I continue to believe that in consultation with our commanders and the Iraqi government, we can safely redeploy at a pace that removes our combat brigades in 16 months, with a residual force to target remnants of al Qaeda; to protect our service members and diplomats; and to train Iraq’s Security Forces if the Iraqis make political progress.
Senator McCain has stubbornly focused on maintaining an indefinite U.S presence in Iraq, but events have made his bluster and record increasingly out of touch with reality. While Senator McCain continues to offer unconditional military and economic support for Iraq, I strongly believe that we need to use our leverage with the Iraqi government to ensure a political settlement. In addition to a timetable, we should only train Iraqi Security Forces if Iraq’s leaders reconcile their differences, and we must insist that Iraq invests its $79 billion surplus on rebuilding its own country. It’s time to succeed in Iraq and to honor the sacrifice of our servicemen and women by leaving Iraq to a sovereign Iraqi government.
Ending the war in Iraq responsibly is in the broader strategic interests of the United States. It’s long past time to drawdown our troop presence and to stop spending $10 billion a month in Iraq so that we can increase resources for the mission in Afghanistan, rebuild our military, and invest in our struggling economy at home.
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:21 pm |
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Jim Halpert
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Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:52 pm Posts: 6981 Location: Hockey Town
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Solid response. Agree with most if not all of what he said. It'll be interesting to see what McCain has to say seeing as he was so much against a timetable. His response to this could be the thing that finally decides if i am going to throw my support behind him.
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:36 pm |
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Beeblebrox
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Jim Halpert wrote: His response to this could be the thing that finally decides if i am going to throw my support behind him. Well, he's no stranger to flip-flopping or rewriting his past opinions, so I'd expect him to endorse the withdrawal.
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:46 pm |
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Eagle
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm Posts: 14631 Location: Pittsburgh
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Spin, spin, spin! Obama wrote: I am glad that the Administration has finally shifted to accepting a timetable for the removal of our combat troops from Iraq. A mutual agreement between Iraq and the US on how and when to withdraw troops is not at all the same as the US decided upon timetable for withdrawal that Democrats have been stumping about. Obama wrote: Success in Iraq depends on an Iraqi government that is reconciling its differences and taking responsibility for its future, and a timetable is the best way to press the Iraqis to do just that. I welcome the growing convergence around this pragmatic and responsible position. Maybe he hasn't read over the agreement, but we aren't forcing them to do anything. We mutually agreed upon a timetable for our troops to phase out and for their troops to take over security. If Iraq feels that they still need help, they can request it, and a joint Iraq and US team will agree upon how to modify this proposal. This is not a timetable in the sense Democrats wanted, regardless how much they spin it to seem that way. There is a HUGE difference between a mutually agreed upon phased transfer of security and the declared withdrawal of support that Democrats wanted. There is a right way, there is a wrong way. This is the right way.
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:44 pm |
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Beeblebrox
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Eagle wrote: A mutual agreement between Iraq and the US on how and when to withdraw troops is not at all the same as the US decided upon timetable for withdrawal that Democrats have been stumping about. Wow, talk about spin. The Iraqi government has been calling for a withdrawal. In fact, when they did, they were all but ignored by the Bush administration and McCain, who famously replied that he knows what the Iraqis want better than they do. And now a few months later, the Bush administration is doing EXACTLY what Obama had proposed months ago. Quote: Maybe he hasn't read over the agreement, but we aren't forcing them to do anything. You have got to be kidding. We've only invaded their borders, overthrown their government, occupied their country for five years, and installed a new government for them, but we certainly haven't forced them to do anything.
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:05 pm |
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Eagle
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm Posts: 14631 Location: Pittsburgh
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
This agreement has been in the works for a long time now. Discussions were started ages ago because a U.N. mandate that gives the U.S. legal cover to stay in Iraq ends in the coming months. This timetable gives us legal recourse to continue operations in Iraq.
This is in no way what Obama was suggesting. Heck, at one point, Obama was stumping to have all the troops out within a month!
This is a MUTUAL agreement, not a one sided decision. This is the best way to go about handing over security in phases, while not destabilizing the region. If something goes awry, there are provisions for dealing with whatever arises. Again, I can't stress enough that this is the right way to handle the situation.
Oh, and the first time Iraq asked for any kind of timetable was the first week of July. By mid-July this agreement was in the early stages of negotiation. Iraq has been up in arms for quite a while regarding the immunity of US troops, but that is not at all the same as a timetable, and that was also addressed in this agreement.
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:13 pm |
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Beeblebrox
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Eagle wrote: This agreement has been in the works for a long time now. Discussions were started ages ago because a U.N. mandate that gives the U.S. legal cover to stay in Iraq ends in the coming months. This timetable gives us legal recourse to continue operations in Iraq. If that is the case, then why was the Bush administration criticizing the mere suggestion of timetables as unpatriotic and dangerous as recently as a few weeks ago when both Obama and Iraq suggested a timetable for withdrawal? Quote: Heck, at one point, Obama was stumping to have all the troops out within a month |
Eagle
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm Posts: 14631 Location: Pittsburgh
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Why do you continue to miss-utilize the quote regarding keeping a military presence in Iraq? Are you that ignorant?
There are 192 recognized countries in the world, of those we currently have a presence in 135. McCain and Bush were not in any shape or form suggesting to maintain anything resembling our current presence there, and for you to continue to suggest it, after I have explained this to you before, is simply blatantly and purposefully lying.
Which, coincidentally, is why I get sick at the thought of discussing anything with you.
You do realize that when Obama was discussing a deal with the Iraqie PM, this agreement was far along to being agreed upon? What about Obama before he met with the PM?
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:28 pm |
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Beeblebrox
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Eagle wrote: McCain and Bush were not in any shape or form suggesting to maintain anything resembling our current presence there, and for you to continue to suggest it, after I have explained this to you before, is simply blatantly and purposefully lying. Yes, I'm very flattered that you hold me to a higher standard of the truth than the president you voted for, but I digress. But the fact is that is as recently as LAST MONTH, both Bush and McCain called the suggestion of timetables unpatriotic, dangerous, and rooting for America's defeat, even when Iraq endorsed Obama's withdrawal plan. This has been their rhetoric since the beginning. And they clearly and plainly proposed a PERMANENT troop presence in Iraq. That's a FACT. I didn't say that it would be the current troop presence, but a permanent troop presence doesn't mean one lone guy stationed at the border either.
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:35 pm |
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Eagle
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm Posts: 14631 Location: Pittsburgh
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Again, we have a PERMANENT presence in over 70% of the countries in the world. Regardless, I don't want to argue with you, it's a fruitless endeavor.
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:37 pm |
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Beeblebrox
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Eagle wrote: Again, we have a PERMANENT presence in over 70% of the countries in the world. I'm sorry, in what way does this prove that I'm lying about a permanent troop presence in Iraq? Oh right, it doesn't.
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:39 pm |
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Jim Halpert
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Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:52 pm Posts: 6981 Location: Hockey Town
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Beeblebrox wrote: Eagle wrote: Again, we have a PERMANENT presence in over 70% of the countries in the world. I'm sorry, in what way does this prove that I'm lying about a permanent troop presence in Iraq? Oh right, it doesn't. what he is implying is that you seem to think that permanent presence means we will be in Iraq in the same fashion we are now for the rest of time.
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:52 pm |
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Beeblebrox
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Jim Halpert wrote: what he is implying is that you seem to think that permanent presence means we will be in Iraq in the same fashion we are now for the rest of time. I'm talking about a permanent presence with US military bases staffed by thousands of American soldiers. That is what the Bush administration was talking about when they were talking about a permanent troop presence in their previous plans. In fact, the WH specifically referenced South Korea, and we currently have 25 THOUSAND troops in South Korea. So my statement was factually and otherwise correct. I can't help it if Eagle can't accept the facts.
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:20 pm |
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Eagle
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm Posts: 14631 Location: Pittsburgh
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Are we back to making up numbers now Beeble? Oh don't worry, I follow the silly logic that got you to that number, I just refuse to subscribe to such a peculiar and flimsy string of logic.
You know, we also have over 75 THOUSAND troops in Germany. You fail to grasp that these 135+ presences are a good thing, a very strategic thing, the same thing that makes something like a missile defense system a possibility. Out of those 75 THOUSAND troops in Germany, how many die in combat each year?
If the same can be said for a permanent base in Iraq, then why so much grief? Isn't peace the ultimate goal in the region? If not, what's your goal for the region?
Sigh, as big a fool as you are, I'm a far bigger fool for continuing to argue with you.
"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:30 pm |
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Beeblebrox
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Eagle wrote: If the same can be said for a permanent base in Iraq, then why so much grief? So now you're admitting that I was actually right and now you're trying to change the subject to why permanent troop presence is a GOOD thing. I'll say it again. You accused me of lying. You're now acknowledging that my facts are correct but the thing that you said I was lying about that turns out to be true is actually a good thing. And you have the gall to accuse Obama of "spin". Second, the point wasn't my issue with the permanent troop presence, it was you pretending like they never made such a claim while slagging on Obama for saying that we'll be out in a month. If what Bush promised back then is completely moot, then why should what Obama said be held against him when he has since revised his plan to the point that the Bush administration is essentially (if inadvertantly) following it? Oh that's right, because you're hypocrite that's why. Third, if you can't see the difference between a base in Germany and a base in the heart of the middle east, in a country that doesn't want us there, among a certain group of people that either resent us or hate us and are still targeting American soldiers, then I can't see how explaining it to you is going to make any difference. Quote: Sigh, as big a fool as you are I figured you'd have little else left to resort to but that.
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:55 pm |
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Eagle
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm Posts: 14631 Location: Pittsburgh
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Continuing to represent what McCain said regarding a permanent presence to seem as though he supports keep the status quo forever is nothing but a lie, regardless of whatever you want to call it.
You are lying because you blatantly and knowingly misrepresent information in a falsified way. Spin it how you want, the truth is the truth. We both know what McCain meant by 'presence,' and he's explained it himself, you just refuse to acknowledge it, and instead misrepresent what he said.
Liar, liar, pants on fire.
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Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:19 am |
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Beeblebrox
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Eagle wrote: Continuing to represent what McCain said regarding a permanent presence to seem as though he supports keep the status quo forever is nothing but a lie, regardless of whatever you want to call it. You're the one using the words "status quo", not me. A permanent troop presence is exactly what they've both said. Quote: You are lying because you blatantly and knowingly misrepresent information in a falsified way. You mean like insisting that I'm saying "status quo" when I've never said anything of the kind? You mean that kind of lying? Again, I'm deeply flattered that you hold me to MUCH higher standards of truth than obviously yourself or even the president of the United States. But really, it's not necessary.
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Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:25 am |
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Eagle
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm Posts: 14631 Location: Pittsburgh
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
More lies. Here, I'll spell it out for you. You said: Beeblebrox wrote: Eagle wrote: Heck, at one point, Obama was stumping to have all the troops out within a month! And heck, at one point, Bush and McCain were stumping to have the troops stay forever! I guess that means the current deal is in no way what Bush was suggesting either. So not mutual then, right? You quote a comment where I refer to Obama's plan to divert from the status quo and pull all the troops out of Iraq. You then counter by clearly reference McCain's comment on a permanent presence in a light that makes it seem as thought they want to maintain the current situation forever. You can argue that you didn't insinuate that, but you've done it before, and you'll do it again. We've even argued about it before, because I find the way you twist his words to be totally asinine in this regard. So go ahead, throw out your load of garbage about how I'm twisting what you wrote, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who took your comment that way, and I think we both know that was the way it was intended, regardless of if you will admit it.
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Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:34 am |
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Eagle
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Oh, and I should also note that your comment of: Beeblebrox wrote: I guess that means the current deal is in no way what Bush was suggesting either. So not mutual then, right? The above is a quote bathed in ignorance. Please go read the agreement, it in no way removes our troops from their country, and in no way ends our presence there, it just removes us from their cities. The presence McCain was referring to, a presence similar to what we have in 135+ other countries, will be EXACTLY what is remaining come 2012.
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Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:38 am |
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Beeblebrox
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Eagle wrote: You then counter by clearly reference McCain's comment on a permanent presence in a light that makes it seem as thought they want to maintain the current situation forever. Ah, "in a light" that "makes it seem" and I "insinuated that." But of course, I didn't say any of that. And by YOUR rules, that makes you a liar. Quote: Please go read the agreement, it in no way removes our troops from their country, and in no way ends our presence there, it just removes us from their cities. From the article: Removal from the cities by 2009. By 2012, a complete military withdrawal from Iraq. What does that imply to you, Mr. Insinuation? Quote: The presence McCain was referring to, a presence similar to what we have in 135+ other countries, will be EXACTLY what is remaining come 2012. You mean the PERMANENT TROOP PRESENCE that I keep talking about that you say is a lie (but nevertheless a good thing that is happening, but I'm still a liar even though what I'm saying is true)?
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Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:59 am |
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Eagle
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
As I said, your comments are based in ignorance.
The deal calls for "thousands" of troops to maintain a presence indefinitely past 2012 as "advisers." Do some more reading on the proposal.
Furthermore, I have always maintained a permanent presence would be a positive, so long as the violence levels are kept to a bare minimum. If troops aren't dying or being injured due to violence, then only positives should come out of a presence there. Our difference stems from the fact that you have constantly poked at McCain's comments on a permanent presence as if he wanted to keep us there in our current role forever, and again, you are a liar because you misrepresent what he has said intentionally.
There is no doubt, I am making assumptions from what you wrote, but they are sound logical continuations based on your current, and past comments. If I am so wrong on what you meant, please, explain your comment to me! Were you instead mocking a permanent presence in the country of the fashion we have in 135 other countries? If so, why? What exactly do you find so outlandish with that situation?
Enlighten me!
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Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:36 am |
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Beeblebrox
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 Re: US and Iraq agree on Military Withdrawal
Eagle wrote: There is no doubt, I am making assumptions from what you wrote, but they are sound logical continuations based on your current, and past comments. So let me understand this. Saying something that is FACTUALLY TRUE is a lie, as long as what you're ASSUMING I meant isn't true. Is that right? Is that what you are going to go on record as saying? Of course, I did not insinuate anything other than what I said, which is factually correct and indisputable, I just want to know that this is what you're saying about the definition of a "fool" and a "liar." Btw, I'm wondering how accurate this assertion is: Heck, at one point, Obama was stumping to have all the troops out within a month!Quote: If I am so wrong on what you meant, please, explain your comment to me! I already did so here: [My initial point] wasn't my issue with the permanent troop presence, it was you pretending like they never made such a claim while slagging on Obama for saying that we'll be out in a month [edit: assuming he did make such a statement]. If what Bush promised back then is completely moot, then why should what Obama said be held against him when he has since revised his plan to the point that the Bush administration is essentially (if inadvertantly) following it? Oh that's right, because you're hypocrite that's why.It was your hypocrisy in attacking Obama's old plans while ignoring his current one, and ignoring and then denying (and finally admitting) that Bush and McCain have proposed a permanent troop presence in Iraq. And I can't find any statements by Obama that suggest he could have all of the troops out in a month. When did he ever say this? Quote: Were you instead mocking a permanent presence in the country of the fashion we have in 135 other countries? If so, why? What exactly do you find so outlandish with that situation?
My god what DON'T you find outlandish about the fact that the US has troops in 135 countries?! At any rate, I already explained here: If you can't see the difference between a base in Germany and a base in the heart of the middle east, in a country that doesn't want us there, among a certain group of people that either resent us or hate us and are still targeting American soldiers, then I can't see how explaining it to you is going to make any difference.The ignorance of you, the neocons, and everyone in Bush the administration to the fundamental differences between conflicts in the middle east and conflicts in other parts of the world has been at the heart of the endless problems we've encountered there. You refuse to learn from mistakes. You refuse to acknowledge ANY responsibility (you for your support of this war and Bush for any of it, period). And you simply want to proceed as if you have ANY credibility left at all.
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