That is why I am so pissed at the Dem party for overiding the process. They are always a weeks or months short of current opinion. They should let the process play out, and Obama is weakened just like Carter was at the end of 1980 and McGovern once the convention was over. It is not my fault or the fault of millions of other dems if we feel like we have seen this freakin' movie too many times and would like to continue the process. I find it ironic the Democratic leaders are so fucking afraid of the actual mess of democracy. It is not in their interest to have a real true working Democracy/Republic, it is a corporate status quo pseudo democracy and it is not working.

Apparently a CNN commentator just called McCain's speech "horrible" and "pathetic".

Yeah, Jeffrey Toobin. It was awesome. And true

get over it already, hillary lost

i want an Obama bumper sticker and i want it NOW!

The Democratic Party's Primary system is anything but democratic. Awarding more delegates (how they decide who their nominee is) to a second or third place finisher is ignorant. The current DEMS probably have some of the worse organization skills of any decade. They fail to see that electing a candidate who plays to the exact same voters as their previous candidate is doing nothing for them in a Presidential Race. Go back after YOUR working class voters. I don't see why that's so hard to understand, if you get that vote back on your side, you WIN. They were never Republican voters until 2000, and that's not going to change anytime soon unfortunately. They could have won back this voting group in the fall, but they didn't want it. In states that have more registered DEMS than REPS (by a solid margin) ends up voting for the minority's candidate, you have a problem people.

Obama vs Clinton is going to be very similar to Obama vs McCain. Only this time it's winner-take-all, not winner-loses.

The Presumptive nominee just won Montana.

Take the loss and move on sweetie, HILLARY LOST.

Did I say she didn't win? I think I said Obama has won about a month ago after May 6th.

He should pull off a double digit win.

reading between the lines here. . .

You seem very bitter about the fact that HILLARY LOST

Bitter at the Democratic Party which has lost my support. They make the same mistakes again and again. Not because Hillary Clinton lost.

And what's wrong with saying it's winner-take-all this Fall, and not winner-loses? Because by General Election rules, which Obama will have to deal with this fall, where placing second in a state doesnt reward you with more delegates. Clinton would have beat him by the rules this fall. And Clinton has won almost the same exact areas all across America that Bush did, going down to county's and towns, while Obama has won where Gore and Kerry won.

Bitter at the Democratic Party which has lost my support. They make the same mistakes again and again. Not because Hillary Clinton lost.

And what's wrong with saying it's winner-take-all this Fall, and not winner-loses? Because by General Election rules, which Obama will have to deal with this fall, Clinton would have beat him.[/quote]

1) she wouldnt win as she already lost, can you not comprehend that?
2) she doesnt have more votes than him
3) She lost
4) she doesnt understand how to abide by rules
5) shes a cheat
6) she lost
7) she is pathetic - begging for the vp spot

HILLARY LOST

1) she wouldnt win as she already lost, can you not comprehend that?
2) she doesnt have more votes than him
3) She lost
4) she doesnt understand how to abide by rules
5) shes a cheat
6) she lost
7) she is pathetic - begging for the vp spot

HILLARY LOST[/quote]


I'm so glad I can actually come up with arguments, facts, and research to support my claims, opinions, etc. while you have to repeat yourself, post in giant bold font, state something everyone knew after for sure a month ago, and be a complete ass. In a way you basically represent the inner-core of many of the Obama supporters around here, and abroad, and are a defining factor in why I will not support such arrogance. You won't see me going around throwing insults against Obama or his supporters.

A shame the same can't be said for the majority of Clinton supporters - not to mention Clinton herself - over the past few months.

I'm also confused as to why you don't like the way Obama's run his campaign. Staying above the fray, refusing to engage in the same dirty tactics as his rival... why does this offend you so?

His platform is change, that's all. Yes, he has an typical platform, but no one cares about that. They care about change and hope, nothing more. It's the exact same platform the DEMS ran in 2006, and while it worked and got them in the majority in Congress, they have done shit to change anything. 2001-2006 is no different than the past few years, if not worse really. The DEMS seem to fail at actually organizing plans to accomplish what they want done, so they abandon this and take the "change" route. Everyone wants change for America, everyone wants to believe in a better future. So of course it's only going to help you get elected. And I hate that idea after it's failed once. Taking advantage of people by saying you'll bring change, hope to American and not delivering on that promise, and probably had no intention to really do this in the first place. That can't be said about Obama yet, but the DEMS in Congress sure didn't believe in their promise they all made in 2006, the same promise Obama is promising.

Shouting that someone's candidate lost in their face over and over again is a great way to ensure votes for your candidate.

So... effectively the Dems came into power in congress a scant one and a half years ago, have failed to yield immediate positive change so you've given up on them. And as a result, you've decided to never trust another living soul that promises any change, even if they're vying for a position that would give said democrats a much bigger say in making said change.

At this time, I will not support the DEMS or REPS. 1.5 years is enough time to get something significant accomplished, even if it's one thing. Or at least maintaining things, which they haven't done either. And it's hard to believe in change when the ones who used that platform, and failed to do anything since, supports a possible leader of the party who is promising the same. It's about like McCain promising more of them same to a point, that the REPS supporting him support. That's why I won't vote for either of them in NOV. One promising the same change, another promising more of the same. And of course I'll support the DEMS in the future once they stop being idiots (or at least start running campaigns I support). The same can be said about the REPS, though that's highly unlikely.

You know, with those words I'd peg you for a dreaming in the sky idealist who refuses to participate because none of the candidates are pure enough and good enough for you -- but you were a Hillary supporter, and she was one of the most insider, politics-as-usual, play dirty candidates we have seen in a long time. So I guess you're just a spoiled brat who didn't get her way and now whines about losing.

I am an idealist. But you have to have what it takes to make those ideals a reality. And I do not feel Obama can make an significant change in America. And I don't feel McCain can either. I'm currently reading up on some third party candidates since I really want to vote this NOV, it'll be my first time, so I really want to vote for someone I agree with and someone I believe could change things even if he/she has no actual chance of winning in NOV. It's not throwing my vote away as a protest. Throwing my vote away would be voting for McCain or Obama, both of whom I do not believe in.


I'm currently reading up on Brian Moore, the Socialist Presidential Nominee this year, and I agree with his stance on pretty much 99% of the issues, and supports participatory democracy, which I strongly do too. I don't know what the big deal is. The only candidate I supported was Hillary Clinton, she ended up losing, and the remaining candidates, Obama and McCain don't suit me, so I'm looking for someone else to support.

I tell you I rather have lunch with a Neo-Con then a crazy crackpot, socialist, nanny state, commie loving idealist...

there's a socialist nominee?! cool!! guess I gotta go research him...

But why the sudden interest in Moore? If you agree with him 99% of the time then why not support him months ago?

It's the whole "well, Clinton lost so I'm not voting democrat" thing that's questionable. If you're current point is that Obama won't be able to unite and get the democratic party to actually get things done then what exactly suggested to you that Clinton would have been able to succeed where you're so sure Obama will fail?