McCain winning, and bringing doom to American is one of the most exaggerated claims anyone can make.

And what have the accomplished?

Surely the DEM lead Congress would prevent him from starting a war with Iran or whoever else, but to be honest, I wouldn't put pass them to actually support the idea really.

I think she would make a great VP if she truly wanted the position, but she doesn't. If she did accept it, it would only be a means to achieve an end (ie: her as President in four to eight years).

So the damage done by Bush to the economy, foreign policy, and the Constitution are simply exaggerated and there's really no difference between the parties. Why support ANY candidate at all then?


I'd rather not support any candidate in the Presidential race this fall, but not supporting anyone just feels...wrong.





They overwhelmingly passed the GI Bill just last week. I guess you missed that. An Obama administration would sign that law. Bush and McCain would veto it. That's the difference a president makes.


That Bill is veto proof. Name some more "accomplishments".




I wonder if you, as a Hillary supporter, recognize the hilarious irony and hypocrisy in this comment.

This issue has been talked about more than enough times already. Clinton wasn't the only Democrat to vote for the War In Iraq, the majority did. And I don't base my support on someone over just a few votes in Congress.

She may be very popular with broke single women but she turns off most people who can think.

[b]This issue has been talked about more than enough times already. Clinton wasn't the only Democrat to vote for the War In Iraq, the majority did. And I don't base my support on someone over just a few votes in Congress.

I mean if Obama supporters go "screw Hilary supporters we will win anyway". The main thing Obama supporters should be doing is to get Hilary supporters on side so you guys can fulfill your dreams of Obama becoming President and can avoid the evil John McCain from ever being one.

McCain winning, and bringing doom to American is one of the most exaggerated claims anyone can make. It's just like in 2006 when the DEMS were screaming saying "if you keep the REPS in the majority, America is doomed. Elect us, and we will change America for the better." And what have the accomplished? No president can start wars. If he doesn't get the support of Congress, no war can be declared. Surely the DEM lead Congress would prevent him from starting a war with Iran or whoever else, but to be honest, I wouldn't put pass them to actually support the idea really.

Joe Lieberman has endorsed McCain for President. The same guy that was running with Al Gore in 2000 who the DEM party soon turned against him by nominating the MoveOn.Org DEM candidate in 2006, so he decided to run as a third party candidate by saying, "For the sake of our state, our country and my party, I cannot and will not let that result stand", and ended up winning re-election anyway. He is one of the few Democrats (even if he's an Independent now) left who doesn't let the DEMS or DNC tell him what he should do. And guess what the DEMS did to him after he endorsed McCain? They stripped him of his SuperDelegate status at the 2008 DEM Convention. And for what? Supporting who he thought was the best candidate? The Democratic Party has REALLY changed, though it may have always been like this, I've only followed Politics for 4 years now.

If you truly believe that Bush's presidency has had no detrimental effects on anything and that McCain would be just fine, then why not vote for McCain? You've already argued that no candidate will change anything at all, so why not just stick with the status quo?



Let's see, they also raised the minimum wage, which wouldn't have (and didn't) happen in a Republican congress.

And more importantly to the point, they passed expansion of the Children's Health Insurance Program and stem cell research expansion, both of which Bush vetoed. Another case in which a Republican president makes a difference.



This would be a few votes doing exactly what you just expressely criticized Democrats for doing. You're the one who singled out their enabling of war. Do a few votes makes a difference or not? You just said they did, now you're saying they don't.

And it's not true that a majority of Democrats voted for the war. 147 Democrats in Congress voted against it. 110 voted for it. So Hillary, whom you support, was in the minority of Democrats who were in the minority party at the time who sided WITH Bush to go to war, doing exactly the kind of thing you just criticized them for doing.

So basically, all that matters to you is Hillary winning. Your arguments are beyond cynical. They are ludicrous and lazy.

No, the majority of the DEMS in the Senate (which Clinton was apart of) voted for the Iraq War.

Sorry, raising the minimum wage is already behind. It's not helping America, it's not changing America. It's not even over 6 bucks an hour yet. The minimum wage increase they passed is a decade too late, and with the current economy, the increase will probably be weaker than it was before 2006. The passed this so fast to show "hey, see! We can do stuff now!" Well, yeah, it's changing America all right.

So like Hillary, you're simply going to spin away inconvenient facts that undermine your points and create your own fantasy land. She's mastered the art of "That doesn't count because..." Frankly, I think we've had enough of that with our current president. When I say, "we" I mean myself and the majority of Americans who think the choice of president DOES make a difference. That clearly excludes you.

Raising the minimum wage was good and all, but it was clearly a way to pander to the american people who voted for them over the REPS in 2006 on their platform of "change".

"Raising the minimum wage was good and all, but it was clearly a way to pander to the american people"

Wait--if actually raising the minimum wage was pandering then what exactly was that whole gas tax holiday thing Clinton had a huge hard on for?

"Raising the minimum wage was good and all, but it was clearly a way to pander to the american people"

Wait--if actually raising the minimum wage was pandering then what exactly was that whole gas tax holiday thing Clinton had a huge hard on for?

Someone else bringing up off-topic issues?

I never brought this up, you are bringing it up to suit your "argument" when it's not being discussed at all right now.

His point was that you entirely dismiss the minimum wage increase as "pandering" that accomplishes "nothing." But when Hillary blatantly panders with a stupid gas tax idea, suddenly it's not a bad idea that does help a few people.

He was trying to illustrate your hypocrisy on Hillary, and it was a pretty good example of it.

White Women Take The Gloves Off


The woman who shouted "McCain in '08" at the Democratic rules committee was speaking for a multitude. After mounting for months, female anger over the choreographed dumping on Hillary Clinton and her supporters has exploded -- and party loyalty be damned. That the women are beginning to have a good time is an especially bad sign for Barack Obama's campaign.

"Obama will NOT get my vote, and one step more," Ellen Thorp, a 59-year-old flight attendant from Houston told me. "I have been a Democrat for 38 years. As of today, I am registering as an independent. Yee Haw!"

A new Pew Research Center poll points to a surging tide of fury, especially among white women. As recently as April, this group preferred Obama over the presumptive Republican John McCain by three percentage points. By May, McCain enjoyed an eight-point lead among white women.

What's dangerous for the Democratic Party is that, for many women, the eye of the storm has moved beyond Hillary or anything she does at this point. The offense has turned personal.

They are now in their own orbit, having abandoned popular Democratic Websites that reveled in crude anti-Hillary outpourings -- and established new ones on which they trade stories of the Obama people's nastiness.

But worse than the online malice has been the affronts to their faces.

Tara Wooters, a 39-year-old mother from Portland, Ore., told me that wearing a Hillary sticker around town has become an act of defiance. She recalls one young man telling her, "I'd rather vote for a black man than a menopausal woman."

"We don't hurl insulting, berating remarks at Obama supporters, or at Obama himself or his family," Debbie Head, a 40-year-old from Austin, Texas, complained to me.

Remember Peggy Agar? The women do. They can't stop talking about the Detroit TV reporter who asked Obama a serious question at a Chrysler factory -- "How are you going to help American autoworkers?" -- to which he answered, "Hold on a second, sweetie."

The women are angry at the ludicrous charges of racism leveled against Clinton by the Obama camp -- amplified in the supposedly respectable media -- and projected onto themselves.

Jean B. Grillo, an "over 50" writer in lower Manhattan, was pretty straightforward: "I am so tired as a white, ultra-liberal, McGovern-voting, civil-rights marching, anti-war fighting highly educated professional woman who totally supports Hillary Clinton to be attacked and vilified as racist and or dumb."

Shauna Morris, a 44-year-old lawyer from Largo, Fla., told me, "I am upper-middle class, and I still can't stand him -- and it has nothing to do with race, believe me."

The women talk of being taken for granted by a party leadership that never spoke out on some of the outrageous Hillary bashing -- and despite the close race, joined the early rush to crown Obama.

"Many of us feel slighted," said Lynn Eyrich Harvey, 76, from Los Gatos, Calif. "We feel that years of supporting the party is unimportant, that we are to sit down and shut up -- but be sure to vote Democratic in November."

Passions can change, one supposes, but the women I hear from do not see the rampant sexism, particularly toward older women, as isolated gaffes but as a systemic dismissal of them -- an enormous voting bloc that has been reliably Democratic.

"How Obama's campaign has treated Hillary will not be forgotten," Janet Rogers, 55, who runs a Bed and Breakfast in Medina, Ohio, wrote me. "I will vote for McCain if Hillary is not the nominee. My husband and friends all feel the same way."

Indeed. McCain in '08 has suddenly become a more likely prospect.

... for staying in this long.

Somehow I don't buy "promoting women's rights!" being the sole reason

And she can't possibly believe she can still win

Is she just a stubborn loser? Debt? Waiting to see if he gets assassinated? Sabotage so she can can claim they should've picked her? The last two are a bit too evil!, but who knows.

I think the vast majority of Hillary's supporters will finally rally around Obama to keep McCain from becoming president.

I guarantee you that all the crap that has surfaced on Obama with his baggage concerning Rev Wright, his assocation with an underground terrorist and his angry wife who can't seem to keep her mouth shut, if all of this would've occurred 6 months ago, Obama would've been out of the race and there wouldn't of been any of this goofy fawning and fainting nonsense at every word he spoke..[/b]

It's just hitting the wires that Hillary has annouced she's open to the VP slot.

That's step one.