I've learned to ignore both Jeff and Bradley, they've already decided that they apparently are smarter then everyone else.

Good forbid you know I be using my brain.

For an actual discussion about HIllary as a candidate minus they you are mindless sheep comments just skip to Dolce.

Well yeah that , the war on Iraq, policy stance on immigration, and gay rights(just civil rights in general). These are un negotiable for me, but as a republican president he really isn't all that bad and there is a lot to admire in the man. Still he won't be getting my vote. I am perfectly happy with either Obama or Clinton, though I would much prefer Clinton. Neither candidate matches what I am looking for but I will settle for abortion for now.

My stance on most social issues is somewhere between James Dobson and Rick Santorum. However, I'm politically neutral on the hot-button wedge issues, because they do not directly impact me. I have the choice to be as conservative as I want; my neighbor's choices are irrelevant. That said, I never object to any Republican based on social issues.

Young voters are categorically less likely to vote. In an election with boosted turnout, all demographics will increase, and the youngest groups will still be the least represented. It is a matter of lifestyle and personal habit. The 20-somethings in my non-political life are mostly stuck in their comfort zones -- school, old cliques, the party scene, etc. Voting has barely occurred to most of them.

Ouch. Just like you don't like being accused of voting for Obama because he is cool, I fucking hate my comments being taken out of context. I did not say that all Obama supporters are voting on a snap decision, and I've never implied that implicitly or explicitly nor would I. In fact, I just a few pages back commented to Angela that because they've given reason for voting how they do, that I'm 100% in respect of their decision (I may not agree but I respect alternate views).

Rather, what I've said, is that many of the young, college-age people that I've talked to and who I've heard interviewed vote because he is a cool and it is an alarming condition.

And as far as what I said to Groucho, I even clarified it was the youth. I love you to death Ripper, but man accusing me of generalizing like that when, if anything, I've done an extraordinary amount to try to educate myself, really, really, really, pisses me the fuck off. I'm sorry but taking things out of context is just...grr.... Sorry.

Actually, no I'm not sorry, I'm annoyed at this just lack (and I'm not singling any one person out right now) of taking things in context. This is a political debate forum, just like politicians are criticized for this sort of thing I think if anything we should keep things in context.

I'll get off my soap box now.

The thing i though, I keep hearing it from you and from none of the other HIlary supporters. Dolce never tells me I support Obama because he's cool. This isn't the first time you said it. So its like the same thing over again. I pissed at lots of feminists for suggesting I have to vote for HIllary because we both have a vagina.

Its gotten to the point were no here likes their choice because they made an educated decision.

Sure, I can find a ton of young people who just like Obama because she cool, I can find a bunch of college girls how like Hillary because she female, but I don't think either is reprensentative of the majorite of voters.

You comments, whether you meant it, come off, "well I had read up on the issues and I like Hillary, everyone I know who voted for Obama just do so because he's cool, they don't know anything."

It has a strong condescending tone, so maybe you don't mean to generalize, but you did say you agree with Bradley (but with nicer words), that was a huge generalizations.

Given the current climate in this country, I think a lot of people are actually watching debates, reading and thinking about who they want to vote for.

So yeah i am upset when people assume they know why I voted for Obama, its not about his race, my race, its not about his coolness.

Where the hell are you getting the idea that I said that is why you voted for him? My fucking god Ripper you are one of the most intellectual people on here and if anything I'd say that is the farthest from the truth when I consider who you are voting for.

Again, I've said, over and over, youth I've talked to and the MTV generation which in itself excludes those who actually educate themselves. The MTV generation at least how I am referring to it, are the voters who don't care, the youth who are following after him because he's cool. It is what I've been witnessed to and repeatedly, again and again and I'll say it one more time, I'm basing this on those I've talked to and reports I've seen. Is there bias? I'm sure. Is it at least somewhat accurate? I think so.

I'm not trying to be an ass but I wouldn't include you in the term "youth", I'm referring to around 18-22ish.

I'm confused Jeff is annoyed at being accused of generalisation even thou half his comments are generalisation by proxy.................mee-sa confuse-a.

winr.

No, instead I'm pissed off (beyond annoyed by the way) that she goes off and says I said she voted for Obama because it is cool and/or because of his race.

Never did I say that. 1) I pointed out an interesting statistic (and clearly stated it was in my state) and that is ~ 90% of the African American vote went to Obama. Now, I'm not generalizing to any race, but to say 90% of any population group actually did research and could justify why they voted that way is asking a bit much. Just like Hillary has historically carried a lot of the feminist vote (just because she is a woman). Does that mean all Blacks vote for Obama and all women vote for Clinton. Well, duh, no. I was just pointing out a statistic in the course of the discussion that I found interesting.

Second, again, I will fucking say it again, I stated the youth I've talked to and seen interviewed show a concerning trend of voting simply because he is cool. This is not a generalization, this is a fact based on what I've seen. I'm not saying every Obama vote is because it is cool, good fucking grief I've said that last line like 6 times in this thread and nobody seems to get that.

Jeff said here you agreed with Bradley



Claiming you'd tone done the insults doesn't make any less of a gross generalization.

I'm either an naive youth or a misogynist, and since I'm not a youth according to you then it must be the misogynoist.

You choose to agree with Bradley.

And at the bottom I clearly defined it as me referring to youth, which again, I don't quite group you in with. I don't even really group myself in with "youth" though I can be.

And I think anyone could see I was being a bit...dramatic...besides, earlier it was stated that "Hillary was less than human", among other insults towards her supporters, "Only stupid people are keeping her in the race" etc., and yet nobody was called out on that. I wasn't pointing the finger here and saying that "Oh Ripper's a misogynist youth" nor was I offended and thought that Excel or whomever was calling me stupid and uneducated.

Its a two way street.

Honestly, of all the people we could admonish for making a hasty decision without reflection or intelligence, none of them are on KJ. Except for BKB.

So wrong.

None of them are on KJ posting in the Politiko forum*

I think it's clear here that the majority of people are arguing with Bradley's stance. It's the fact that he hasn't returned to argue his point more thoroughly (and the fact that you have) that's resulted in you getting caught in the line of fire.

By now, I think it's apparent that you don't think every single one of Obama's supporters are sexist or young and illl-informed. You just picked up on a small part of what Bradley had said that jived with a couple of your own experiences, and, somewhat ill-advisedly, decided to agree with his entire post without really taking the time to think about what he was saying. From that point forward, your point's been getting muddled because you don't seem to understand why people are throwing accusations at you about comments that you don't think you made, when in fact, by saying Bradley was right, you kinda did.

A simple qualifier at the beginning of your original post, such as: "While don't agree with Bradley that they're the only people supporting Obama, I do think that a lot of the young Obama supporters that I know are only voting for him because he's cool, not because of what he stands for", would have prevented this from ever happening.

Yeah, probably.

Can we just go back to that.

That you just have to get used to. Calling people stupid is fair game. I get that all the time as a rightie, it's part of the game.

I said you people, as in, the people voting for Hilary, and are serious.

She's a disgusting human.

Case in point.

Like I said, I didn't take offense. Just like if someone told me I was a misogynist for voting for Clinton I wouldn't care. I'd tell them they were wrong, but that's it. It's a political debate forum. Heh.

Forgive I don't argue with Chip, I long established his lack of logic.

I don't enjoy banging my head brick walls, but if you want to be lumped in with him and in gross generalizations category be my guest.