I'm an atheist, and I can't prove my "faith".

Speaking in terms of pure logic, proving a condition as categorically false is the greatest assbender.

That's hardly a low blow, because he already said he knows God doesn't exist. It seems more like an expression of your own doubt in the fairy tale you've been fed...

No, it's not true! What, are you mad? I don't pray to anyone for my wife to get better -- not God, not Jesus, not the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Geez, if there were a God, I'd be rightly pissed at the bastard for giving my wife cancer in the first place. If you can pray to a god to make your loved ones better, why can't you blame him for making them hurt in the first place?

BKB, here's a big relevation. Sit down, it may be hard for you to accept. OK, ready? NOT EVERYONE THINKS LIKE YOU DO.

It's not sinking him fast, probably not at all. But it's a problem because it goes to the core of his message. He is running on the idea that he has good judgement and it's such a display of poor judgement to have close ties to this church when running for president.

He's still inevitably going to get the nomination. As the NYT said in an article today in which they talked about the opinions of dozens of super delegates they interviewed, the super delegates are not wanting to over turn the popular and electoral vote lead of a candidate and are highly likely to break for Obama over time no matter what happens in Pennsylvania.

But it could hurt him against McCain. He's going to have trouble against McCain anyway because McCain's combination of positions is perfect for carrying California.

McCain cannot win California with a pro-life stance and having banked right on immigration. Same with New York. Pale-blue states such as New Jersey are fair game, however.

This whole farce is the most overblown piece of nonsense I've witnessed in a while. Fox news is just showing a level of bias even beyond their own standards constantly driving this story into loco americans who hang on every sound bite.

I just heard some fox non news personality go over a couple of emails and the subject was "Rethinking Obama." Yes it's fox viewers so I know what to expect but it's good to make people aware of how psycho some people are.

The first email responder was a guy who was questioning obama on how over 20 yrs he could keep attending Wright's racist anti american sermons and not once have objected to it. First of all, the clips are short clips of a tiny portion of a couple sermons he gave. It doesn't mean every sermon had the same level of rhetoric, so the guy is already jumping to a fantastical conclusion.

The second one was from a female who was upset how Obama could associate with a man who was "blaming" 9/11 on america and how wright is a bigot. I've listened to the clips he isn't blaming america imo and idk it's impossible to explain 9/11 properly to people like her because they don't understand english. As for a bigot, I'm so tired of people claiming other people racist when they make observations and very obvious ones. The country is controlled by "rich white people" assuming that's what she was referring too.

I'm just so sick of hearing about this. The anti-obama people are really grasping at straws yet the media machine if allowed to do it's power will continue to drill this into idiots who will not vote for someone because of a preacher's comments. Just because obama has a relationship with him. A relationship with a preacher. Comments obama didn't even say. Comments he has denounced (for political reasons at the least).

nghtvsn, if you hate Fox's coverage of the story, change the channel. I have lost count of the number of times you have cited them in this "overblown" story.

1) The emailer you cited may have jumped to a conclusion based on a small portion of the evidence, but it is hardly "fantastical." Judging by the level of invective in Wright's speech, I think it would be a fairly safe assumption that he rails like this often or at least on occasion. That doesn't mean that Obama subscribes to those same notions, but it does mean that he tolerates them.

2) The incoherent gibberish you wrote about 9/11, I will leave alone, judging by the links in your signature.

Good grief, I never noticed those. Next up, George Bush invented AIDS.

Another transcript has popped up of another preacher Obama pays attention to. Here's what this one says:


Damn you rich! You already have your compensation.

Damn you who are well-fed! You will know hunger.

Damn you who laugh now! You will weep and grieve.

Damn you when everybody speaks well of you!

The preacher is some guy named Jesus of Nazareth. (Luke 6:24-26)

Of course not, I am saying that a lot of people dont need proof; I find it is a lot easier to just believe in him than it is to not.

Friend: "You can't prove there is no God!"

Woody Allen: "Right. You have to take it on faith."


(Can't remember which film that's from though!)

How did this flap start? Who first brought it up or leaked the videos to the media and got the ball rolling?

Yeah I know there were rumblings and it was always known that it would come up. My question though is what started the ball rolling at this specific time.

As to whether Obama is in love with his teachings, that's doubtful. What is far more likely is that he simply joined the church as a pragmatic move. It was a big, influential church in the district he was running for state senate from. You've seen how people keep hounding him about not being black enough, by joining that he ends that issue and it helps him network. He's a politician, he acted the way politicians act.

I know I sound like some rabid Obama supporter but mostly I'm for him by default, since I don't want to be governed by the two families for 28 years (are Americans that gullible?) and McCain seems itching to get us into another war.

In any case, unless he's found with a live boy or a dead girl in his bed sometime soon, he's going to be the nominee, that's a given.

This column by Bill Clinton's old strategist pretty much sums up the current situation.

I'm very sorry to see things turning out this way. I wish we'd have a decent campaign. I mean, this pastor stuff should not be an issue. Obama is a decent guy, and only he represents himself

That would be a huge concession for the Obama camp if they use that argument.

He said he never heard the remarks everyone is playing on the news...the stuff about God Damning America and stuff. He later said he had heard 'controversial' remarks. Who knows which sermons he really did experience (unless he went week in and week out for 20 years, of course).

The thing is, I'd bet money that Obama is like 79 percent of all American Christians. He joined a church, met people and stuck with it. He goes on Sundays, listens, talks whatever and then goes home and forgets about it until the next time. Yknow? When he heard controversial stuff, he probably talked with his wife about it, about how much truth there is or is not in the statements, and then stopped thinking about it. Until he started running for offices, he probably never thought just being in attendance would ever, EVER effect him in any way. What should he have done? Quit the church and called CNN the first time he heard a remark that was lame? I mean, there are 52 weeks in a year...times 20 yrs, that's a lot of church days. We have what? 10 youtube clips at best? I'm sure most of the sermons where about normal churchy stuff, yknow?

I dunno. I just think the whole thing is stupid. Until you have that God Damn America video turned to the audience and see Obama in the front row with his fists in the air screaming Amen, I think he did what anyone else would have done: sat passively when he disagreed with the pastor and moved on. He just happens to now be running for president, so the fact that he was even a member means he agrees with the guy unless he was fighting back or whatever.

I doubt they will, and the ballsy speech he made on Tuesday was thirty yards past the political line.

Here's what Huckabee said about it:

"And he made the point, and I think it's a valid one, that you can't hold the candidate responsible for everything that people around him may say or do. You just can't -- whether it's me, whether it's Obama, anybody else. But he did distance himself from the very vitriolic statements."

Gov. Huckabee on Rev. Wright:

"And one other thing I think we've got to remember: As easy as it is for those of us who are white to look back and say, "That's a terrible statement," I grew up in a very segregated South, and I think that you have to cut some slack. And I'm going to be probably the only conservative in America who's going to say something like this, but I'm just telling you: We've got to cut some slack to people who grew up being called names, being told, "You have to sit in the balcony when you go to the movie. You have to go to the back door to go into the restaurant. And you can't sit out there with everyone else. There's a separate waiting room in the doctor's office. Here's where you sit on the bus." And you know what? Sometimes people do have a chip on their shoulder and resentment. And you have to just say, I probably would too. I probably would too. In fact, I may have had a more, more of a chip on my shoulder had it been me."

Actually, I agree with this. I literally even heard a pro-Obama CNN pundit who thought he was being "open" and "supportive" say something that revealed this sentiment and my brain almost fell through my dropped-open jaw and onto the floor.

Me? I'm different. I don't care what his preacher said at all. I'm just disappointed he has publicly claimed growing up and regularly attending church was the backbone and an inspiration in his life, in the first place.

Wow. That surprises me somewhat.

Yes well Hucakbee is a conservative christian and knows full well about this type of thing especially after all the horrible things Falwell and Robertson have said. This isn't a knock on anything as this really is a none issue and in this case Huckabee is right. It doesn't really matter what his pastor says.

And coming from a republican Christian no less. Kudos to Huckabee.

Blah ha. Exactly.