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Why I am supporting Obama
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Groucho
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm Posts: 12096 Location: Stroudsburg, PA
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 Why I am supporting Obama
I originally wrote this as a response to another thread, but decided maybe it should be its own thread. In my earlier years I was a lot more idealistic, believe it or not. But I learned after a while that resumes and three-point plans don't mean a thing, really. Agreeing with me on the issues doesn't mean you will be able to get anything done once you get into office. The first guy I ever voted for (now I'm really showing my age) was Jimmy Carter. The man was (and still is) one of the most honest, ethical, and well-meaning politicians ever. And he couldn't get a thing done, even with a democratic Congress. I have also learned in my own life (and especially in my job as a lawyer) that a lot more can be accomplished by working with the other side, compromising, and not thinking that ervy battle has to be won at 100%. I'd rather get 50% of something than 100% of nothing. I originally supported John Edwards but as the campaign progressed, I switched over because I saw Edwards as too confrontational. We're electing a President, not a King. He/she won't be able to get anything done without help from other politicians. And Obama has shown both by his words and his past actions that he understands this, and has the same outlook as I do over these things. (If I believed in astrology, I'd point out that his birthday is only two days away from mine.  ) His history in Illinois in having the state stop its death penalty cases was obtained with the help of Republicans and signed by a Republican governor. How many liberals can you name who could have gotten that accomplished? In the US Congress, he worked with conservative Republicans to pass one of the harshest ethics bills Congress has ever seen. It's not as good as he wanted, but he said something along the lines of "I'd rather get 50% of something than 100% of nothing." This is someone who can get things done. And he has a way of inspiring the American people, which is a skill that cannot be overlooked. There is nothing wrong with being a good speaker, like some of Obama's critics claim. I'd counter that it is indeed one of the biggest qualifications for being a President. Maybe we have gone through 8 years of one of the worst public speakers as our President ever that we have forgotten that. Look at Reagan and how his optomism helped bring America back from the depression of the 70s. Look at how much he got done. Obama is our Reagan. Obama is our "Great Communicator." Hillary can't do any of that. She doesn't inspire people with her speeches in the same way. She is the most divisive politician in America today (and lately she's been running a very divisive campaign, too). There is no way the Republicans will work with her. As I have said before, I will vote for her if he is the nominee, but she's not my first choice. (Actually, I've never really ever had my first choice win the nomination, but I always ended up voting democratic -- well, except one time in 1980 when I was still young and idealistic). So my support of Obama is based on an analysis on who would be the best leader.
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Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:38 pm |
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Eagle
Site Owner
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm Posts: 14631 Location: Pittsburgh
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
I'm glad to see you find someone you feel fits you so well. I haven't as of yet, but I'll keep looking! I do agree with a lot of what you said though, and I think it's a good thing that both Obama and McCain seem willing to unite rather than divide.
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Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:41 pm |
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Groucho
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm Posts: 12096 Location: Stroudsburg, PA
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
I always thought McCain wasn't that bad of a guy for a lot of these same reasons; he also knows that it is foolish to think that your party is never wrong, and he knows that you can get more done by working with the other side.
However, his embracing of Bush and his policies, his pledge to overturn Roe v. Wade, and his very conservative politics means I'd never support him.
Still, I'd rather have him than any other of the Republicans who had been running.
I look forward to an Obama / McCain race because I think it may be a fairly clean and honest one for once.
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Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:48 pm |
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redspear
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:08 am Posts: 1879
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
Groucho wrote: I always thought McCain wasn't that bad of a guy for a lot of these same reasons; he also knows that it is foolish to think that your party is never wrong, and he knows that you can get more done by working with the other side.
However, his embracing of Bush and his policies, his pledge to overturn Roe v. Wade, and his very conservative politics means I'd never support him.
Still, I'd rather have him than any other of the Republicans who had been running.
I look forward to an Obama / McCain race because I think it may be a fairly clean and honest one for once. I believe you originally were responding to my post. I agree that McCain is not that bad of a guy. In fact I did state that at of all of the candidates in the race right now that he is the one who could get bi-partisan support the easiest. I also agree with one hundred percent with your first choice of Edwards out of all of the Democrats that ran in this election he was the guy I agreed with the most and had the ability to see the issues and work with them. I believe that Edwards is the best presidential candidate to not get a nomination. However I have to disagree with your statements about Reagan. He ran with undo optimism similiarily to Obama and gave speeches that sounded better than Obama or Clinton but he also sold half our country to corporations and increased the national debt more than any president in recent history outside of Bush Jr. Personally I am not that fond of Hillary but if I had to choose between the two I would choose Hillary. It is not so much his lack of experience that bothers me but his high rate of neglecting to vote that bothers me. Politically there is not much difference between Hillary and Obama and the differences that are there are exaggerated in a tight delegate race. Make no mistake at the end of the day Obama is a politician just like McCain or Hillary. His legally history is noble for the death penalty but that does little to impress me. I have worked wiht lawyers who have done equally noble things on high and low profile cases. that does not make a good president. the issue of experience comes up here for me because in this election it is all senators which most presidents are governors. Reagan, Clinton, Carter, Bush Jr, Roosevelt or their vice presidents after them. Aside from Bush Jr the two worst presidents have been Senators because they have only ever worked the legislative side of the aisle. Where a governor has expierence that being a senator does not have. So than I have to look at how they have handled their jobs while in the senate or congress what they voted on what they have introduced legislatively and how much they vote and why. Too me Obama comes out on the bottom in these catergories. The only reason I wouldn't vote for McCain at this point is his stance on the war and abortion. Issues brought up during a campaign mean nothign to me because that is what they are nothing just stuff candidates say to get votes...cynical yes but that is american politics even if they mean it they run into to too much red tape. I believe that voting just because you think they are electable is silly voting because you agree with them and you think they are electable is not. However I will vote for what I think is the best candidate.
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Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:09 pm |
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Groucho
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm Posts: 12096 Location: Stroudsburg, PA
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
redspear wrote: However I have to disagree with your statements about Reagan. He ran with undo optimism similiarily to Obama and gave speeches that sounded better than Obama or Clinton but he also sold half our country to corporations and increased the national debt more than any president in recent history outside of Bush Jr. Good God, don't think for one moment I supported Reagan! My point was that Reagan showed that being a good communicator meant that you can get more done. A President should use the "bully pulpit" (as Teddy Roosevelt called it -- now there was someone who knew the importance of a good speaking style!) A President with charisma and charm and the ability to inspire can get a lot more accomplished. Those qualities are not superficial -- they describe ALL great leaders, from Lincoln to Churchill. redspear wrote: Make no mistake at the end of the day Obama is a politician just like McCain or Hillary. Absolutely, and anyone who thinks otherwise is foolish. But of the politicians running now, he's the best. redspear wrote: His legally history is noble for the death penalty but that does little to impress me. I have worked wiht lawyers who have done equally noble things on high and low profile cases. that does not make a good president. No, this was as a legislator in Illinois, not as a lawyer. He got politicians on the other side to agree and he got something accomplished other politicians in Illinois had tried before and couldn't accomplish. That says something really good to me, and says to me that he will do the same as President.
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Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:20 pm |
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redspear
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:08 am Posts: 1879
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
Groucho wrote: redspear wrote: His legally history is noble for the death penalty but that does little to impress me. I have worked wiht lawyers who have done equally noble things on high and low profile cases. that does not make a good president. No, this was as a legislator in Illinois, not as a lawyer. He got politicians on the other side to agree and he got something accomplished other politicians in Illinois had tried before and couldn't accomplish. That says something really good to me, and says to me that he will do the same as President. But that was illinois a predominately democratic state because of Chicago and a completely different playing field. It is an impressive feat no less and nothing to take that away from him. But while he was there he still voted against stuff he said he would vote for had a lot of NVs. To be honest that is my biggest issue wiht him is his Not Voted history. I mean if we were talking about stuff like a $100,000 budget surplus to subsidize the county of whatever it wouldn't be na issue but we are talkign about stuff like abortion and issues that people feel passionate about. To skip out of those votes is a sign of an old skool politician and if that is what I am voting for I would rather vote for someone who doesn't say they are not an old skool politician. There is also the issue of dirt and right now Obama looks very shiny. It is kind of like fingerprints on a a new coffee table they are a whole lot more noticeable than if it were a little scuffed up from average use.
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Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:28 pm |
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Groucho
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm Posts: 12096 Location: Stroudsburg, PA
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
redspear wrote: Groucho wrote: redspear wrote: His legally history is noble for the death penalty but that does little to impress me. I have worked wiht lawyers who have done equally noble things on high and low profile cases. that does not make a good president. No, this was as a legislator in Illinois, not as a lawyer. He got politicians on the other side to agree and he got something accomplished other politicians in Illinois had tried before and couldn't accomplish. That says something really good to me, and says to me that he will do the same as President. But that was illinois a predominately democratic state because of Chicago and a completely different playing field. It is an impressive feat no less and nothing to take that away from him. But while he was there he still voted against stuff he said he would vote for had a lot of NVs. To be honest that is my biggest issue wiht him is his Not Voted history. I mean if we were talking about stuff like a $100,000 budget surplus to subsidize the county of whatever it wouldn't be na issue but we are talkign about stuff like abortion and issues that people feel passionate about. To skip out of those votes is a sign of an old skool politician and if that is what I am voting for I would rather vote for someone who doesn't say they are not an old skool politician. There is also the issue of dirt and right now Obama looks very shiny. It is kind of like fingerprints on a a new coffee table they are a whole lot more noticeable than if it were a little scuffed up from average use. Are you talking about that one abortion vote that the Clinton people keep bringing up? Here, read this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/1 ... 81460.htmlPlanned Parenthood Chicago President Steve Trombley defended Obama, saying the "present" votes were part of a strategy devised by his group to protect vulnerable Democrats, and that Obama was always prepared to vote against the anti-abortion rights bills.
"We feel an obligation to defend Barack's record related to abortion issues in Illinois," Trumbley said. "Barack Obama has a 100 percent voting record from Planned Parenthood."
Pam Sutherland, the President of Illinois Planned Parenthood, explained that her organization had approached Obama to participate in the "present" votes strategy.
Voting "present" is a legislative maneuver in Illinois employed by lawmakers to register opposition to a proposal, without being on the record with a "yes" or "no" vote. Lawmakers like the maneuver because it is difficult to use against a candidate in a future campaign ad.
"Sen. Obama was key to that "present" vote strategy," Sutherland said. "We specifically asked him to vote "present" because he was so respected among his fellow Democrats."
Sutherland said the goal was to get a few prominent members of the Democratic caucus to adopt their strategy so more cautious Democrats would follow suit.
"What's good about this strategy is it actually worked," Sutherland said.So he voted the way Planned Parenthood asked him to. Oh my God, he must be anti-abortion!
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Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:33 pm |
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redspear
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:08 am Posts: 1879
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
That is one but there is stuff like the law prohibiting strip clubs from being 1000 feet of a public school, church, and its ilk he voted Present as a way of voting against the bill or the law that required mandatory adult sentence for gun violence near a public school. He voted present on that to to vote against the bill. The fact that he has one of the highest counts on these issues show that he is afraid to vocally stand on issues that are touchy and takes a cowardly way out. It shows to me that he would be less willing to vocally support issues of importance if they come up if they would mess with his image. Even if he voted the right way. On top of that he has a bunch of other votes that he just plain skips.
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Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:56 pm |
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Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
Groucho wrote: In my earlier years I was a lot more idealistic, believe it or not.
Heh. I don't.
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Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:10 am |
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DP07
The Thirteenth Floor
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:26 am Posts: 15573 Location: Everywhere
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
Groucho wrote: I have also learned in my own life (and especially in my job as a lawyer) that a lot more can be accomplished by working with the other side, compromising, and not thinking that ervy battle has to be won at 100%. I'd rather get 50% of something than 100% of nothing. What about 40% of 150%? Or even 100% of 150%? Why does it have to be a zero-sum game? Eh, in any case where it is, I think it should all be automatically formulated by computers so people can continue doing human stuff.
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Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:29 am |
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Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
Groucho wrote: In my earlier years I was a lot more idealistic, believe it or not.
... I believe it - - because everything you wrote after the above quote was pure idealism which you simply labelled as analysis...
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Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:17 am |
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Snrub
Vagina Qwertyuiop
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:14 pm Posts: 8767 Location: Great Living Standards
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
I have a question. Theoretically, can Obama nominate a republican VP?
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Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:27 am |
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Groucho
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm Posts: 12096 Location: Stroudsburg, PA
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
Snrub wrote: I have a question. Theoretically, can Obama nominate a republican VP? Yep. Parties are not in the constitution at all. However, you'd have to get the democrats to approve the choice, and unless the person was willing to change parties, it probably wouldn't happen. Maybe McCain will nominate Lieberman as VP?
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Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:41 am |
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nghtvsn
Extraordinary
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:13 pm Posts: 11016 Location: Warren Theatre Oklahoma
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
Groucho wrote: Snrub wrote: I have a question. Theoretically, can Obama nominate a republican VP? Yep. Parties are not in the constitution at all. However, you'd have to get the democrats to approve the choice, and unless the person was willing to change parties, it probably wouldn't happen. Maybe McCain will nominate Lieberman as VP? I don't see it happening. He should be looking for a governor, however, I could see Lieberman being part of his cabinet in some way.
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Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:19 am |
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Jim Halpert
Stanley Cup
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:52 pm Posts: 6981 Location: Hockey Town
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
Bobby Jindal that's who mccain needs as his vp.
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Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:20 pm |
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Mannyisthebest
Forum General
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 3:53 pm Posts: 8642 Location: Toronto, Canada
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 Re: Why I am supporting Obama
I think Obama is to much an idealist for my liking...
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Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:52 am |
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