If one really wants to pound on this point of Obama being black, a better question to raise might be what if Obama were white and Clinton were black, would Clinton have done as well as Obama did so far?

Frankly, I think Obama's in the position he's in right now in [i]spite[i] of his race. He's articulate, he's idealistic, he's realistic, he's intelligent, he's politically savvy but honest, he's anti-old politics... frankly he's a wet dream of a presidential candidate.

And it's questions like the ones posed in this thread that show why he's got very little chance of being elected.

And women are voting for Hillary 75% too.

And Italians voted for Guiliani, and so on. People vote for people like them.

But Obama also won Maine and Iowa and Vermont and states that are 99% white, too, so it's not just that, is it? It's not as if the black vote has made the huge difference in this election.

If one really wants to pound on this point of Obama being black, a better question to raise might be what if Obama were white and Clinton were black, would Clinton have done as well as Obama did so far?

Oh please, my question has nothing to do with his electability.

Obama is a valid candidate, with valid ideas. As others have said, he is a very charismatic man, and someone who is willing to work with the other side to get things accomplished. Because of that, he will always connect and find support from people who agree with him simply based on policy. People like Mike V.

But don't kid yourself.

We live in a world where people will refuse to vote for him because of the color of his skin. Where people will attack and demean him because of his religion or race, and where people will do anything they can to make sure he doesn't become president.

We also live in a world where people will vote for him simply because he is Black. You can't possibly look at turnout and voting tenancies among African-Americans this year and believe any differently.

The Democratic party has become racially divided. Hispanics, who as a culture are generally the most racist toward African-Americans, are voting hard against him. Race is going to play a huge part in this election, more so than any past election. Yet, I prescribe to the theory that there are far more people that will vote FOR him based on his race than those who would vote AGAINST him based on his race. Thus I think you saying things like he has very little chance at being elected are just foolish.

The fact that this thread exists in itself, I think is pretty sad.

The problem is you only see it one way. You seem to think there are people out there voting for him because he is black but somehow think that in our pretty little world there aren't just as many people out there voting against him for the same reason. That and you ignore that there ARE people out there who can think of a person in more terms than just their race...

Well, you are so right and so wrong in the same statement, so let me try and explain.

On one hand, you are 110% correct. People generally vote for people like them. The African-American community feels like they have a voice, and they are turning to it in droves. There is nothing wrong with that.

But to say the black vote hasn't made a difference is crazy. Go look at how Houston, Dallas, Cincinnati, Cleveland and every other major city with a large black population has voted. Urban areas are swinging entire states for Obama, and it IS having a huge impact.

I never said white people couldn't, wouldn't or shouldn't vote for Obama. He's a great politician, and people like Groucho find reason to connect with him, but he has been aided by his race, and I don't see why people want to deny it.

but he has been aided by his race, and I don't see why people want to deny it.

Are you kidding me?

Put words in peoples mouth much? If you think I don't believe people would vote against him because he's black, you're dead wrong. If you think that I believe there aren't people who side with him based only on his political agenda, charisma, etc, then you're dead wrong.

I have never said ANYTHING even close to that, but hey, thanks for letting me know how I feel! I just feel that his race HAS helped his campaign to where it is today.

Rod, are you crazy?

I never tried to make this all about race.

I never people don't support Obama because of his politics.

I never said people only support Obama because of his race.

I simply said that some do, which is true. I think his race has helped him a ton, and I don't think it's wrong to assume that if he wasn't black, it would shift the African American vote to a point where he would no longer be winning.

Sheesh, there is nothing I hate more than having words thrown into your mouth, and then the person arguing with you about what they THINK you believe.

Well, I think you missed my point, which was that every politician is helped by their own "constituency." Women for Hillary, blacks for Obama, evangelicals for Huckabee, etc.

That's not news. You expect that. It's kind of factored in.

But that's not enough. If that was all there was, Obama would have, what, 11% of the vote? But he has more than 50% against Hillary. It's not just the blacks there. If that was the case, we'd have President Jesse Jackson right now.

The main point of this thread was that he was doing well only because he is black, and I see no evidence of that. You think all those white people in Iowa and Vermont are voting for him because he's black? That goes completely against the concept we all know is true, which is that people tend to vote for people like them. There must be some other reason they are voting for Obama. Maybe they really like him despite the fact that he is not like them.

I see in the deep south where his numbers with whites is only around 25%, which is much different from much of the rest of the country. So I'd say in certain parts, his race hurts him.

Thus my position that if he were white, he'd be doing even better.

But you do make it all about that, just by starting this thread. Groucho already pointed out that, yes, people tend to vote for people who share certain qualities with themselves. Why is the fact that Obama is getting overwhelming support with African Americans an issue worth discussing, but not the fact that Mike Huckabee received equally overwhelming support among Evangelicals? Or Romney with Mormons? Or going back Kennedy with Catholics?

Oh, and Hispanics ARE more racist toward Blacks than anyone else, go look at the Hispanic vs Black civil war brewing in LA. It's just a fact, it doesn't apply to all Hispanics, but it does apply to some.

Look at how the African American vote went previously, Clinton was a HUGE favorite for them, black women voted for her in droves. Along comes Obama, and she struggles to get 20% of the black vote. This is a HUGE shift, and one worth talking about.

Excuse me for not being politically correct, for not pretending that myself and every other American is color blind. Continue to pounce on me for calling a cat a cat.

You know, I seriously find this one of the stupidest comments in this thread, and I've seen it twice already. Maybe it says more about your own pre-conceptions than it does about the way people are really voting. Obama took 82% of the Hispanic vote in Illinois. Do you find it so hard to believe that people out there are actually voting for Clinton because they support her, and not against Obama because he is black? Clinton has always had very strong support among minorities. Other minorities are voting equally in favor of her as Hispanics. African Americans would probably be voting for her by an equal margin were it not for Obama. The whole idea that Hispanics have not supported Obama in the primary election simply because he is black is downright ignorant.

Obama is a valid candidate, with valid ideas. As others have said, he is a very charismatic man, and someone who is willing to work with the other side to get things accomplished. Because of that, he will always connect and find support from people who agree with him simply based on policy. People like Mike V.

But don't kid yourself.

We live in a world where people will refuse to vote for him because of the color of his skin. Where people will attack and demean him because of his religion or race, and where people will do anything they can to make sure he doesn't become president.

But then you have to admit that any gains he may get for being black is offset by losses he has in the south especially.

Do you really think that where he is getting over 50% of the white vote in many places but only 25% in Mississippi and Alabama that race isn't the reason?

Yeah, his race is having an effect -- to his detriment. Don't address one side without addressing the other.

It's a sad world we live in, but that doesn't mean it's not valid reasoning.

Everything Xiayun said is spot on, but look, you can say whatever you want about his charisma, urban areas aren't voting for him 85-15 because of his charisma.