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 March 4th Championships 
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Draughty

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Post Re: March 4th Championships
I think he's going to run as a republican Dumbledore.


Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:13 pm
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Superfreak
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Ericka wrote:
Mista Nasty Time wrote:
whats absolutly hilarious is depsite these appearent, she is still down by over 100 delegates :hahaha:

I love how people have gone from calling these "must win states or shes done" to "major combeack for Hillary".

I find it funny because she lead by 15 points or more in both states 2 weeks ago; she was obviously expected to win the popular votes. As I said before, his lead in delegates and popular votes is virtually impossible for her to top, and whoeve rhas those will win the nomination at the convention.



She isnt down over 100. The latest official count is 1515 to 1424.

You forget the states that she has won Excel. OH, FL, MA, CA, TX, NJ, are much more important in general elections than Idaho or North Dakota. Winning the popular vote doesn't mean you will win in the general election, nor does winning it in a primary race.


But thats not a very intelligent point. If Obamas the nominee he will get Cali same way if Hillarys th enominee, McCain will get Texas.

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Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:38 pm
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
loyalfromlondon wrote:
I can't imagine him having sex with his stepford wive but nevertheless, I know they do. :grrr:


:funny: :funny: :funny: :funny:


Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:40 pm
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
exactly. ohio was a bigge but she was favored to win all along...so why such surprise?

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Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:46 pm
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Extraordinary

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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Except for Iowa, the late deciders have consistently breaking toward Hillary, and I think there are a couple of built-in reasons for that:

1. The demographic for last-minute deciders probably favors her (older, more women, etc.);
2. When you're still undecided in the last minute and you're forced to choose, people normally go with the "safer" choice, the one they know more and feel more comfortable.

The Ohio margin for late deciders is particularly large for another reason: Hillary had a very good weekend, with some help from the media - the 3am ad (even though dirty, indeed worked), the Rezko case, and NAFTA. She didn't actually get much, if anything at all, out of the debate, since the exit polls from Ohio showed people who think the debate was important in fact went with Obama (certainly, need more demographic breakdown on who watched the debate before extracting more meanings), but almost everything afterward favored Clinton. Basically the election held at a perfect time, as Obama had little time to counter.

Also, what last night showed is that by this time, after all these primaries, the constituency behind each candidate is becoming really rock solid, regardless how much more ads each airs. A small group of undeciders are moving back and forth, but by large, the voting blocs are set, unless there is a major scandal or slip up. AA is breaking 85-15 Obama, Hispanics 65-35 and Asians 70-30 for Clinton, white women double-digit for Clinton, and white men single-digit for Obama. 18-29 years old is going 70-30 for Obama, while 65+ is breaking the same for Clinton. Combined, each has about 45-50% of the support, pretty much equally divided. Except for Wisconsin, all these have been pretty consistent. So it's all about turnout and the demo of each individual state.

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Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:29 pm
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Draughty

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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Well David Brooks the republican columnist who knows people who work at the white house has said on Charlie Rose a few months ago that the Bush team is rooting for Hillary, that they see her as the best chance to preserve his legacy.

So I'm not surprised he's feeling good today.


Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:53 pm
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Cream of the Crop
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Caucus update. Barack is up by 12% (56-44) with 39% of the precincts reporting. Around 3 AM this morning with 34% reporting, it was much closer (52-48). Before that, Obama was consistently leading by 10-12% in all the other updates so it appears the 52-48 update was influenced heavily by some of her stronghold areas (possibly South Texas or West Texas).


Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:04 pm
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Extraordinary

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Post Re: March 4th Championships
redfirebird2008 wrote:
Caucus update. Barack is up by 12% (56-44) with 39% of the precincts reporting. Around 3 AM this morning with 34% reporting, it was much closer (52-48). Before that, Obama was consistently leading by 10-12% in all the other updates so it appears the 52-48 update was influenced heavily by some of her stronghold areas (possibly South Texas or West Texas).


Here is the live update.

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Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:11 pm
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
xiayun wrote:
redfirebird2008 wrote:
Caucus update. Barack is up by 12% (56-44) with 39% of the precincts reporting. Around 3 AM this morning with 34% reporting, it was much closer (52-48). Before that, Obama was consistently leading by 10-12% in all the other updates so it appears the 52-48 update was influenced heavily by some of her stronghold areas (possibly South Texas or West Texas).


Here is the live update.


I've been checking that website since last night but it's a bigger pain in the ass than tool. Why don't they include the overall numbers? I mean it's nice to see the district breakdowns but it'd be better to have both the district and the overall numbers.


Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:18 pm
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Bill Clinton went on Rush Limbaugh's show today? WTF? That's so beneath him. :(


Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:40 pm
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Well, after everything has apparently been counted, Hillary gained a net of 4 delegates.

So she is still behind Obama by more than 100 delegates.

Obama only needs 46% of the remaining delegates to win the nomination. So he could lose all the remaining states and still win.

Hillary's victory is impressive and she is spinning it just like I would if I were her, but seriously, she's going to have to win everything that is left by big numbers to carry this off, and I don't think that's going to happen.

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Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:02 pm
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Peace, Hillary.

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Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:05 pm
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Groucho wrote:
Well, after everything has apparently been counted, Hillary gained a net of 4 delegates.

So she is still behind Obama by more than 100 delegates.

Obama only needs 46% of the remaining delegates to win the nomination. So he could lose all the remaining states and still win.

Hillary's victory is impressive and she is spinning it just like I would if I were her, but seriously, she's going to have to win everything that is left by big numbers to carry this off, and I don't think that's going to happen.


win the nominaion? How?

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Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:18 pm
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Mista Nasty Time wrote:
Groucho wrote:
Well, after everything has apparently been counted, Hillary gained a net of 4 delegates.

So she is still behind Obama by more than 100 delegates.

Obama only needs 46% of the remaining delegates to win the nomination. So he could lose all the remaining states and still win.

Hillary's victory is impressive and she is spinning it just like I would if I were her, but seriously, she's going to have to win everything that is left by big numbers to carry this off, and I don't think that's going to happen.


win the nominaion? How?


You mean Obama?

He only needs 46% of the remaining delegates to stay ahead of Hillary. Yes, it's not enough to win without the superdelegates, but it won't be enough for Hillary either.

So basically, his campaign is saying:

"1. We expect to win more than just 46% of the remaining delegates so should be way ahead of her; and

2. The superdelegates should not impose their will over the voters and give the nomination to Hillary."

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Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:25 pm
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Again, she doesn't need the most pledged delegates to beat Obama. Winning states like OH, FL, and PA are enough for superdelegates to side with her if the delegate count is still as close as it is. And do not forget about MI and FL. Dean has said they broke the rules, blah blah, but if it goes to the convention, he and the Party wont piss the DEMS off in those two states by not including them in some way in the end, and they are big enough to push Hillary or Obama over. And if I was a superdelegate, I would too. I wouldnt want to risk losing any of those. And Clinton is more favorable in them. It's just like Donna Brazile said on CNN. The SuperDelegates will be looking for who can win in NOV. And she is a superdelegate. Not for who has won the most states, or who has the most votes. But for who can win in the places to win the general election, like OH, FL, and PA.

Her red phone ad is only going to help her persuade them of this. This ad helps McCain and her, and hurts Obama. So if it's Obama vs McCain, Obama is the only one hurt by this, while Clinton gave him a wonderful ad to run against Obama. This ad could have been a big reason why late deciders went for her and not Obama. Most think it was a big role in TX where the ad was aired. So she has started the first attack that actually hurts Obama in a general election of he is the nominee.

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Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:02 am
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
If the "super delegates" are so smart...

They know that Obama should be the nominee.

Only an idiot would put Hillary in over Obama.

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Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:04 am
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Munk·E wrote:
If the "super delegates" are so smart...

They know that Obama should be the nominee.

Only an idiot would put Hillary in over Obama.



If I was a super delegate, in a race this close, I'd go with who won in OH, PA, FL. If someone won all three of those, they'd get my support, but only if the wins in all three are significant, near double digits or more. They are tooooo important to lose in NOV. You simply cannot lose them. Losing them means you give 4 more years to the REPS.

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“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
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Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:07 am
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Good thing you're not a Super Delegate!

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shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element

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Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:09 am
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Munk·E wrote:
Good thing you're not a Super Delegate!



No, but I basically repeated what an actual Super Delegate said on CNN. :thumbsup:

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“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:12 am
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
And I'll repeat what numerous super delegates have said: follow the voters.

Be it Obama or Clinton, if the person with the most votes or delegates doesnt get nomination at the convention, there will be hell to pay for democrats.

Turn off hundereds of thousands of voters, assure a november loss, and and anger a very popular-hell, the most popular- candidate.

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Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:18 am
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
When Obama goes into the convention with a delegate lead. He will get the nomination.

Even if it's only by 1.

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shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element

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Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:20 am
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
The whole MI and FL thing is something to think about, though. If they hadn't been stripped of their delegates, Hillary would probably be leading right now.


Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:31 am
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Cotton wrote:
The whole MI and FL thing is something to think about, though. If they hadn't been stripped of their delegates, Hillary would probably be leading right now.


In strict mathematical terms, she wouldn't. She would be behind by only 26 (assuming delegates are divided exactly along percentage lines and excluding the superdelegates of course).

But we all know the race is about momentum, so it's harder to say what those delegates would have meant and done since she they were held when she had the lead and would have extended her lead.

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Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:47 am
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
This whole need 75% of the delegates to win thing is ridiculous. She doesn't need, or care about getting to the mark, she just cares about not letting Obama get there.


Look:


There are 720 pledged delegates left in the Democratic Race. Lets just assume a (360/360) split, which in reality, will be close to what happens. Some of these delegates (FL, MI) currently won't be seated.

That gives Obama 1681 pledged, and Clinton 1546 pledged.


There are 796 superdelegates, 359 of which are unpledged. Let's assume they break at the current rate of 54.5 to 45.5. I personally think they break closer to 57% to 60% for Clinton (a 40 delegate swing).

That gives Clinton 434 pledged SD, and Obama 362 pledged SD. Which in turn, gives Obama a total of 2043 delegates, and Clinton a total of 1980, with Edwards having the remaining 26.

Now, with the above totals, Obama wins the election, yay. But, subtract the 156 of Michigan and the 210 of Florida, and now you only have totals of 1860 for Obama and 1797 for Clinton. Neither is anywhere close to the nomination, and if you re-seat those delegates, chances are they go heavy for Clinton, especially in Florida.

Personally, I think this thing is a dead heat, and think about who decides this if it's a brokered convention: The Superdelegates. Who have they consistently broke for? Even when Hillary is losing 10 in a row?

Yep. Say hello to your nominee.

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Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:01 am
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Post Re: March 4th Championships
Munk·E wrote:
When Obama goes into the convention with a delegate lead. He will get the nomination.

Even if it's only by 1.

It must be nice living in such an innocent fantasy world...

:emo:


(PS: Superdelegates are a legitmate part of the Democrat's nomination process, they are not imposing anything - - he media has been imposing the imposing idea...)


Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:19 am
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