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 The 'American Idol' Thread 

Who should be the next American Idol?
Poll ended at Fri May 27, 2005 4:00 pm
Bo Bice 39%  39%  [ 11 ]
Carrie Underwood 61%  61%  [ 17 ]
Total votes : 28

 The 'American Idol' Thread 
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Dr Malcom wrote:
There were reality shows on tv pre-Survivor, but not in primetime. I don't care how many reality tv shows are in outside of primetime. All those elimidate, real world, road rules, etc i don't care about. What is awful is when the main networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and to a lesser extent WB and UPN) fill up time slots with reality shows. Most other networks don't have their own series (FX is having more and more original series though) so when the networks that are needed to supply new shows go the reality tv route, viewers looking for quality shows have no where else to turn.
If you hadn't noticed, the reality tv situation makes me kind of angry.


Hey, I think it makes us all angry. Luckily, FOX is coming through, and said that they realize reality was not the answer to their ratings problem. Thank you god. Now, if only NBC would get it together, we would be doing well.

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Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:21 pm
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Mr. X wrote:
Dr Malcom wrote:
There were reality shows on tv pre-Survivor, but not in primetime. I don't care how many reality tv shows are in outside of primetime. All those elimidate, real world, road rules, etc i don't care about. What is awful is when the main networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and to a lesser extent WB and UPN) fill up time slots with reality shows. Most other networks don't have their own series (FX is having more and more original series though) so when the networks that are needed to supply new shows go the reality tv route, viewers looking for quality shows have no where else to turn.
If you hadn't noticed, the reality tv situation makes me kind of angry.


Hey, I think it makes us all angry. Luckily, FOX is coming through, and said that they realize reality was not the answer to their ratings problem. Thank you god. Now, if only NBC would get it together, we would be doing well.


If you ask me, the reality shows on ABC (other than The Bachelor, bleh) and CBS aren't all that obnoxious.

FOX needs to get rid of almost all of them, though.


Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:34 pm
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Libs wrote:
Mr. X wrote:
Dr Malcom wrote:
There were reality shows on tv pre-Survivor, but not in primetime. I don't care how many reality tv shows are in outside of primetime. All those elimidate, real world, road rules, etc i don't care about. What is awful is when the main networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and to a lesser extent WB and UPN) fill up time slots with reality shows. Most other networks don't have their own series (FX is having more and more original series though) so when the networks that are needed to supply new shows go the reality tv route, viewers looking for quality shows have no where else to turn.
If you hadn't noticed, the reality tv situation makes me kind of angry.


Hey, I think it makes us all angry. Luckily, FOX is coming through, and said that they realize reality was not the answer to their ratings problem. Thank you god. Now, if only NBC would get it together, we would be doing well.


If you ask me, the reality shows on ABC (other than The Bachelor, bleh) and CBS aren't all that obnoxious.

FOX needs to get rid of almost all of them, though.


Outside of The Bachelor, ABC doesn't have much else. Extreme Makeover (all three shows here) and Supernanny. Oh, and Wife Swap. I don't think any of them, but I know you like Wife Swap, and that's fine. Actually, I don't mind Extreme Makeover: Home Edition. I find it funny that the spin-off is MUCH higher-rated than the original.

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Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:48 pm
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You know Libs, I think we would make pretty good TV critics. We obviously both know TV, and normally I reply to what you say with my opinion, and vice versa. ... nothing else, just wanted to give my opinion on that. :wink:

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Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:51 pm
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So is "Proud Mary" the new "A Whole New World"? That song was butchered tonight. Especially by that weird that guy that wanted seceed in everything he did. Some of these rejects should go on Superstar USA 2 (if that ever gets made) because they would definitely have a shot. They sure have the naivety for it.

I didn't find the triplets all that bad, but nothing special. If they allowed the 'best' one through she wouldn't have made it further than the first Hollywood stage. That Joe guy, who seemed like he brought his whole family was a bit cocky, and he had just an okay voice. I don't know why the devoted so much time to Dirk and Adam. They weren't good or entertaining. Also that short girl they let through because she rapped in the beginning, I thought didn't deserve to go through, and her mom will get increasingly annoying the more I see her. I thought the teacher and the pupil were equally talented, but then again I'm not a judge so whatever.

The few singers from tonight that I did enjoy managed to get through. I can't recall names but the farm girl and Ozzie Smith's son did well. Also a high point of the night was the Rugrat exchange. And how that girl could get some good voice work as a rat. Ya know I had heard those were in high demand.

Now...6 more days.


Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm
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Captain America with his perfect bleached teeth, it was great to see him get turned down. He brought 25 people with him, had a huge banner, and was way too sure of himself. He admitted to being a cruise singer, in addition to being a newscaster. But when Simon called him on it, he tried to talk his way out of it.

Had he only shut the fuck up and not wink so much at camera, Randy and Paula would have sent him to Hollywood. He even had the nerve to bad mouth the best singers from last season.

Dirk and Adam were great. If only they had held hands and kissed, it would have been the perfect ending.


Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:13 pm
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1 hour of auditions......1 talented singer (Carrie the country girl).

Hello! Come on American Idol, show us some fucking talent!!!

Jesus, the only time we see the good singers is in a montage after we have witnessed about ten brutal performances.


Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:39 am
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To Dr. Malcom and co:

Ok, I know that about 90% of all 'reality' television shows are pretty lame, but I can't stand it when you people go and start rallying behind such 'quality' programming as Alias, 24 and Law & Order. Not that I have anything against the 'quality' programming -- 'cause I luv me some Alias :wink: -- but the only reason any show is on is to give the public what they want and for network execs to make appaling sums of money off of it.


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BennyBlanco wrote:
1 hour of auditions......1 talented singer (Carrie the country girl).

Hello! Come on American Idol, show us some fucking talent!!!

Jesus, the only time we see the good singers is in a montage after we have witnessed about ten brutal performances.


I agree :razz: I remember in the first two seasons they showed us more talent during the audition rounds. But I guess drawing 34 million viewers has FOX execs shouting: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" at all of us.


Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:52 am
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yeah the Country girl sang very very good!!

im getting sick of the bad singing!!! #-o


Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:34 pm
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Cotton wrote:
To Dr. Malcom and co:

Ok, I know that about 90% of all 'reality' television shows are pretty lame, but I can't stand it when you people go and start rallying behind such 'quality' programming as Alias, 24 and Law & Order. Not that I have anything against the 'quality' programming -- 'cause I luv me some Alias :wink: -- but the only reason any show is on is to give the public what they want and for network execs to make appaling sums of money off of it.


Arrested Development is an exception. FOX themselves said that the show was on because everyone at FOX loved it, and they had faith viewers would find it.

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Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:14 pm
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Dr Malcom wrote:
There were reality shows on tv pre-Survivor, but not in primetime. I don't care how many reality tv shows are in outside of primetime. All those elimidate, real world, road rules, etc i don't care about. What is awful is when the main networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and to a lesser extent WB and UPN) fill up time slots with reality shows. Most other networks don't have their own series (FX is having more and more original series though) so when the networks that are needed to supply new shows go the reality tv route, viewers looking for quality shows have no where else to turn.
If you hadn't noticed, the reality tv situation makes me kind of angry.



I love svu as well! but don't hate on people because they like American Idol, and call them names...

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Mr. X wrote:
Cotton wrote:
To Dr. Malcom and co:

Ok, I know that about 90% of all 'reality' television shows are pretty lame, but I can't stand it when you people go and start rallying behind such 'quality' programming as Alias, 24 and Law & Order. Not that I have anything against the 'quality' programming -- 'cause I luv me some Alias :wink: -- but the only reason any show is on is to give the public what they want and for network execs to make appaling sums of money off of it.


Arrested Development is an exception. FOX themselves said that the show was on because everyone at FOX loved it, and they had faith viewers would find it.


Yeah, they say that, but in the end it comes down to money. With it's Emmy win and fair amount of buzz surrounding it, FOX is betting that show will flourish in the ratings eventually (remember the problems it had with 24 and The X-Files, not to mention Alias on ABC).

And plus, with it's lackluster schedual, does FOX have anything better to put on?


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loyalfromlondon wrote:
Captain America with his perfect bleached teeth, it was great to see him get turned down. He brought 25 people with him, had a huge banner, and was way too sure of himself. He admitted to being a cruise singer, in addition to being a newscaster. But when Simon called him on it, he tried to talk his way out of it.

Had he only shut the fuck up and not wink so much at camera, Randy and Paula would have sent him to Hollywood. He even had the nerve to bad mouth the best singers from last season.

Dirk and Adam were great. If only they had held hands and kissed, it would have been the perfect ending.


I thought the same thing...if he would have simply kept his mouth shut, he'd probably would have gone. What an idiot!

What I don't understand is why half of these people look like they've never seen the show? Being extremely cocky never wins the competition. People hate that. People like the loveable easy going nice contestants (Ruben, Clay, Kelly, Fantasia). Also the judges hate lounge act types, Broadway style, and Cruise ship crap on the whole.

I think the country girl is going to go far as she has the unassuming pretty farm girl act down pat. That's what people want to see.

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I never watch this show, I've only caught bits here and there. I think there is much better talent than what they present. I've heard singers that just blow away the best that this show puts on there. I do think that it's time for somebody to put a little scare in old Simon, so he'll learn some manners. He shouldn't be judging talent if he can't show that he can do better anyway. It takes more than just being a listener. That's when you have nothing but an opinion, but it's hardly an opinion that should be taken as seriously as somebody who could show the person that they are judging, exactly how to do right what they did wrong. I'm assuming that the people who talent search for this show are also not trained talents, which is why the show really isn't producing any memorable singers.


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Maverikk wrote:
I never watch this show, I've only caught bits here and there. I think there is much better talent than what they present. I've heard singers that just blow away the best that this show puts on there. I do think that it's time for somebody to put a little scare in old Simon, so he'll learn some manners. He shouldn't be judging talent if he can't show that he can do better anyway. It takes more than just being a listener. That's when you have nothing but an opinion, but it's hardly an opinion that should be taken as seriously as somebody who could show the person that they are judging, exactly how to do right what they did wrong. I'm assuming that the people who talent search for this show are also not trained talents, which is why the show really isn't producing any memorable singers.


I'd disagree that Simon isn't qualified to judge the talent, or that you have to be a trained talent to judge.

Cowell is also much more than just a "listener". He is a BMG music executive who has had a career of developing talent (he has sold over 25 million records, 70 top 30 records, and nearly 20 #1 hits). Clearly the man has some inside knowledge of what it takes to be in the music business, and isn't some dumb idiot they plucked off the street.

Also, as anyone who watches idol will tell you, the guest judges who are "trained talent" are the WORST judges by far. I think if they had all trained talent doing the judging the show would be a bunch of Paula Abdul's (which isn't good).

I actually think idol had a good idea assembling the judges by picking an executive (Cowell) a producer (Jackson) and a singer (Abdul) to do the judging to get all perspectives.

Also, I think that Kelly Clarkson has done pretty well for herself - her first album went double platinum, and her second just went platinum too. As a matter of fact, Reuben Studdard, Clay Aiken, and Kelly all had platinum records. I guess I'd have to ask at what point you'd consider them successful?

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Maverikk wrote:
I never watch this show, I've only caught bits here and there. I think there is much better talent than what they present. I've heard singers that just blow away the best that this show puts on there. I do think that it's time for somebody to put a little scare in old Simon, so he'll learn some manners. He shouldn't be judging talent if he can't show that he can do better anyway. It takes more than just being a listener. That's when you have nothing but an opinion, but it's hardly an opinion that should be taken as seriously as somebody who could show the person that they are judging, exactly how to do right what they did wrong. I'm assuming that the people who talent search for this show are also not trained talents, which is why the show really isn't producing any memorable singers.


I beg to differ. Listen to Kelly Clarkson's recent Breakaway album and then tell me what you think. :razz:


Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:29 pm
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TonyMontana wrote:
I'd disagree that Simon isn't qualified to judge the talent, or that you have to be a trained talent to judge.

Cowell is also much more than just a "listener". He is a BMG music executive who has had a career of developing talent (he has sold over 25 million records, 70 top 30 records, and nearly 20 #1 hits). Clearly the man has some inside knowledge of what it takes to be in the music business, and isn't some dumb idiot they plucked off the street.

Also, as anyone who watches idol will tell you, the guest judges who are "trained talent" are the WORST judges by far. I think if they had all trained talent doing the judging the show would be a bunch of Paula Abdul's (which isn't good).

I actually think idol had a good idea assembling the judges by picking an executive (Cowell) a producer (Jackson) and a singer (Abdul) to do the judging to get all perspectives.

Also, I think that Kelly Clarkson has done pretty well for herself - her first album went double platinum, and her second just went platinum too. As a matter of fact, Reuben Studdard, Clay Aiken, and Kelly all had platinum records. I guess I'd have to ask at what point you'd consider them successful?


Tony, why do you equate good with sales? How much has Britney sold, for no other reason that T&A? That's not talent. All of your arguments are based off sales. Have you ever heard of Jerry and the Pacemakers? They were the Beatles biggest rivals when the British invasion happened. They outsold the Stones. Who is more memorable?

Can't agree with you here. Do you know how many idiots have a job at big record studios? That's not anything that any one person is responsible for, and falls squarely in the lap of the marketing people, not the talent evaluating.


Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:59 pm
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Libs wrote:
Maverikk wrote:
I beg to differ. Listen to Kelly Clarkson's recent Breakaway album and then tell me what you think. :razz:


No need to beg. :rofl: It's ok to be wrong. \:D/


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Maverikk wrote:
TonyMontana wrote:
I'd disagree that Simon isn't qualified to judge the talent, or that you have to be a trained talent to judge.

Cowell is also much more than just a "listener". He is a BMG music executive who has had a career of developing talent (he has sold over 25 million records, 70 top 30 records, and nearly 20 #1 hits). Clearly the man has some inside knowledge of what it takes to be in the music business, and isn't some dumb idiot they plucked off the street.

Also, as anyone who watches idol will tell you, the guest judges who are "trained talent" are the WORST judges by far. I think if they had all trained talent doing the judging the show would be a bunch of Paula Abdul's (which isn't good).

I actually think idol had a good idea assembling the judges by picking an executive (Cowell) a producer (Jackson) and a singer (Abdul) to do the judging to get all perspectives.

Also, I think that Kelly Clarkson has done pretty well for herself - her first album went double platinum, and her second just went platinum too. As a matter of fact, Reuben Studdard, Clay Aiken, and Kelly all had platinum records. I guess I'd have to ask at what point you'd consider them successful?


Tony, why do you equate good with sales? How much has Britney sold, for no other reason that T&A? That's not talent. All of your arguments are based off sales. Have you ever heard of Jerry and the Pacemakers? They were the Beatles biggest rivals when the British invasion happened. They outsold the Stones. Who is more memorable?

Can't agree with you here. Do you know how many idiots have a job at big record studios? That's not anything that any one person is responsible for, and falls squarely in the lap of the marketing people, not the talent evaluating.


Why do you equate good with successful? :wink:


Kelly Clarkson has a multi-platinum album, one that will likely do the same, 4 top 20 singles, great reviews from critics, show no far of fading anytime soon. I'd say that's pretty successful.


Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:51 pm
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Maverikk wrote:
TonyMontana wrote:
I'd disagree that Simon isn't qualified to judge the talent, or that you have to be a trained talent to judge.

Cowell is also much more than just a "listener". He is a BMG music executive who has had a career of developing talent (he has sold over 25 million records, 70 top 30 records, and nearly 20 #1 hits). Clearly the man has some inside knowledge of what it takes to be in the music business, and isn't some dumb idiot they plucked off the street.

Also, as anyone who watches idol will tell you, the guest judges who are "trained talent" are the WORST judges by far. I think if they had all trained talent doing the judging the show would be a bunch of Paula Abdul's (which isn't good).

I actually think idol had a good idea assembling the judges by picking an executive (Cowell) a producer (Jackson) and a singer (Abdul) to do the judging to get all perspectives.

Also, I think that Kelly Clarkson has done pretty well for herself - her first album went double platinum, and her second just went platinum too. As a matter of fact, Reuben Studdard, Clay Aiken, and Kelly all had platinum records. I guess I'd have to ask at what point you'd consider them successful?


Tony, why do you equate good with sales? How much has Britney sold, for no other reason that T&A? That's not talent. All of your arguments are based off sales. Have you ever heard of Jerry and the Pacemakers? They were the Beatles biggest rivals when the British invasion happened. They outsold the Stones. Who is more memorable?

Can't agree with you here. Do you know how many idiots have a job at big record studios? That's not anything that any one person is responsible for, and falls squarely in the lap of the marketing people, not the talent evaluating.


Who said I equated "good" with sales, or that sales equals talent? As a matter of fact, I've mentioned several times when debating in the video game forum that sales does not equal quality, and cited the example of the Backstreet Boys selling more records than Nirvana. In your initial statement you said that AI wasn't producing memorable stars, apparently because you feel Simon Cowell has no ability to judge. That was what I was debating... AI does produce memorable and successful stars. And as anyone who has seen the show will tell you, that Cowell is better at judging the talent then ANY of the performers they have ever had on. And, if you disagree, please tell me which performer showed Cowell up and was better at judging.

Also, for what it's worth, it is "Gerry and the Pacemakers", and I've most definitely heard of them.

You made a point with nothing to back it up. You simply imply Cowell is a terrible judge. Who has Cowell passed on that was an incredible talent? Please point that out to me, because I've watched the show for 4 years and have never once saw an amazing talent come along that Cowell dismissed. Clearly since you made that statement you have some reason to base this opinion on? Or, if not you're simply talking out of your ass.

I'd say that while Cowell's number don't imply on face value that he can find talent, his numbers shows that he can pick out successful stars. And, they certainly do not automatically imply that he is clueless. I guess you'll have to show me where Cowell went wrong and what talents he passed up. If Cowell passed up signing Nirvana for the Backstreet Boys or the Stones for Gerry and the Pacemakers, I guess you'd have a point. But as it stands you're just pulling things out of thin air with nothing to back it up.

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TonyMontana wrote:

Who said I equated "good" with sales, or that sales equals talent? As a matter of fact, I've mentioned several times when debating in the video game forum that sales does not equal quality, and cited the example of the Backstreet Boys selling more records than Nirvana. In your initial statement you said that AI wasn't producing memorable stars, apparently because you feel Simon Cowell has no ability to judge. That was what I was debating... AI does produce memorable and successful stars. And as anyone who has seen the show will tell you, that Cowell is better at judging the talent then ANY of the performers they have ever had on. And, if you disagree, please tell me which performer showed Cowell up and was better at judging.

I guess you didn't read your reply, in which you went on and on and on about sales?

I don't think any of the judges on that show are very good at judging talent, but it's always best to be street smart as opposed to book smart in such cases, and a true judge of talent would be able to do it themselves, or else they really would be quite ignorant.


Also, for what it's worth, it is "Gerry and the Pacemakers", and I've most definitely heard of them.

Actually, I know very well that it's GERRY and the Pacemakers, and could even play a song or two of theirs, but thanks for trying to convince me that my spelling mistake meant you knew them better...

You made a point with nothing to back it up. You simply imply Cowell is a terrible judge. Who has Cowell passed on that was an incredible talent? Please point that out to me, because I've watched the show for 4 years and have never once saw an amazing talent come along that Cowell dismissed. Clearly since you made that statement you have some reason to base this opinion on? Or, if not you're simply talking out of your ass.

So you are a watcher, and that makes you some kind of musical expert here? I think you better tone down the fucking attitude already! You are nowhere near as knowledgeable about music as I am, no matter how many years you watch TV. Seriously, you need to quit acting like such an asshole.

I'd say that while Cowell's number don't imply on face value that he can find talent, his numbers shows that he can pick out successful stars. And, they certainly do not automatically imply that he is clueless. I guess you'll have to show me where Cowell went wrong and what talents he passed up. If Cowell passed up signing Nirvana for the Backstreet Boys or the Stones for Gerry and the Pacemakers, I guess you'd have a point. But as it stands you're just pulling things out of thin air with nothing to back it up.


He doesn't have any talent that he has passed, because there isn't any of note on the stage. Now, if you want to start acting a little decent, instead of still acting like an idiot toward me for whatever reason, I'll be more than happy to continue the discussion, but this is not the first time you have showed a serious attitude toward me, so tone it down...


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Maverikk wrote:
TonyMontana wrote:

Who said I equated "good" with sales, or that sales equals talent? As a matter of fact, I've mentioned several times when debating in the video game forum that sales does not equal quality, and cited the example of the Backstreet Boys selling more records than Nirvana. In your initial statement you said that AI wasn't producing memorable stars, apparently because you feel Simon Cowell has no ability to judge. That was what I was debating... AI does produce memorable and successful stars. And as anyone who has seen the show will tell you, that Cowell is better at judging the talent then ANY of the performers they have ever had on. And, if you disagree, please tell me which performer showed Cowell up and was better at judging.

I guess you didn't read your reply, in which you went on and on and on about sales?

I don't think any of the judges on that show are very good at judging talent, but it's always best to be street smart as opposed to book smart in such cases, and a true judge of talent would be able to do it themselves, or else they really would be quite ignorant.


Also, for what it's worth, it is "Gerry and the Pacemakers", and I've most definitely heard of them.

Actually, I know very well that it's GERRY and the Pacemakers, and could even play a song or two of theirs, but thanks for trying to convince me that my spelling mistake meant you knew them better...

You made a point with nothing to back it up. You simply imply Cowell is a terrible judge. Who has Cowell passed on that was an incredible talent? Please point that out to me, because I've watched the show for 4 years and have never once saw an amazing talent come along that Cowell dismissed. Clearly since you made that statement you have some reason to base this opinion on? Or, if not you're simply talking out of your ass.

So you are a watcher, and that makes you some kind of musical expert here? I think you better tone down the fucking attitude already! You are nowhere near as knowledgeable about music as I am, no matter how many years you watch TV. Seriously, you need to quit acting like such an asshole.

I'd say that while Cowell's number don't imply on face value that he can find talent, his numbers shows that he can pick out successful stars. And, they certainly do not automatically imply that he is clueless. I guess you'll have to show me where Cowell went wrong and what talents he passed up. If Cowell passed up signing Nirvana for the Backstreet Boys or the Stones for Gerry and the Pacemakers, I guess you'd have a point. But as it stands you're just pulling things out of thin air with nothing to back it up.


He doesn't have any talent that he has passed, because there isn't any of note on the stage. Now, if you want to start acting a little decent, instead of still acting like an idiot toward me for whatever reason, I'll be more than happy to continue the discussion, but this is not the first time you have showed a serious attitude toward me, so tone it down...


Well, you didn't answer any of my question on exactly why you think Cowell is not qualified and have offered nothing to back your opinion up. I'd say that's fair for me to question that. There are a lot of debates on message boards, if you're sincerely that thin skinned, I will no longer debate you as I'm not looking to upset you. I've always pegged you as a highly skilled debater and thought we were having a good one here. I also figured you'd have a specific reason as to why you hate Cowell or think he has no ability to judge.

As for musical talent, you know nothing of my music background. I can (and do) play guitar, I played drums for 7 years through school (marching and prep bands), and even played the highly geeky instrument, the bassoon, for 4 years. I don't claim to be a musical genius, and never would pretend to know more than Cowell.

But, again, you started the debate. I simply thought you'd have more to back it up, and didn't realize you were sensitive about the issue. Are you sure Cowell didn't pass you up at one of these audtions? ;)

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Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:20 pm
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Award Winning Bastard

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:03 am
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TonyMontana wrote:

Well, you didn't answer any of my question on exactly why you think Cowell is not qualified and have offered nothing to back your opinion up. I'd say that's fair for me to question that. There are a lot of debates on message boards, if you're sincerely that thin skinned, I will no longer debate you as I'm not looking to upset you. I've always pegged you as a highly skilled debater and thought we were having a good one here. I also figured you'd have a specific reason as to why you hate Cowell or think he has no ability to judge.

It's not about being thin skinned, Tony, it's that I find it hard to believe that your agression is about a judge on a damn TV show. You started ranting, not debating. Every time I give you an answer, you say "that's not good enough" , so what difference does it make, you're just going to keep talking in circles.

As for musical talent, you know nothing of my music background. I can (and do) play guitar, I played drums for 7 years through school (marching and prep bands), and even played the highly geeky instrument, the bassoon, for 4 years. I don't claim to be a musical genius, and never would pretend to know more than Cowell.

Oh great, then I can give you a quick pop quiz? I would have no problems putting my musical knowledge up against that guy. (or yours) If you don't feel confident doing that yourself, that's perfectly fine. As far as singing goes, which is what AI is all about, how do your skills help you out?

But, again, you started the debate. I simply thought you'd have more to back it up, and didn't realize you were sensitive about the issue. Are you sure Cowell didn't pass you up at one of these audtions? ;)


I made a comment, you swooped in like you had some kind of axe to grind with me, and I gave you an excuse. Cowell would never be able to pass up somebody who doesn't give him or his show much credibility, would he? Are you sure that you don't have some other reasons for coming to his defense so agressively? :-k

Seriously, Tony, I don't have any issues with you, but you definitely came at me for some reason. Rod and Libs both disagreed with me, but they didn't start foaming at the mouth while telling me they did.


Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:36 pm
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Commander and Chef

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am
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You both seem to be on a different page here.

American Idol, if anyone really thinks is a talent hunt is wrong. Even AI says so. This isn't about talent, its about who can sell. Simon has said it millions of times. Thats why people have been refused all the way in the initial stage of the game where only the judges get to decide who in and whos out.

Also, the people are picked according to who will SELL the show itself.

You think William Hung got there because everyone was given a fair chance!?!?!?

Let me tell you how AI works. Contrary to popular belief, the judges do not listen to everyone. Producers of the show walk around, talk to people, and pick out the ones who will probably make the real show lots of fun to watch (which includes sex appeal and talent and group dynamics). People like WIlliam hung dont get up there coincidently. They're purposely chosen to make the first 3 shows fun to watch for us which i think is really sad. How do i know this? Cause i know people who went to try out for it, were asked by producers to leave cause they didn't meet "certain criterias" n all.

Mav, Simon is not looking for someone with talent. Simon is looking for someone who can sell the records while at the same time sell the show (both of which require some level of singing talent too though). Considering hes never lied about it, hes not being a hypocrite either. From that point of view, i think hes a pretty good judge, yet hes terribly cocky and full of himself, even when hes wrong. That guy who sang Nirvana during world idol gave him the perfect answer and shut him up.

Tony, if talent is what Simon is looking for, yes he finds it but even HE knows he can do better and even I know hes probably not the best person out there to scout for it. His job is to sell, much like a movie producer. A lot of movies that come out every year suck more than rubbing shampoo all over your head and the water running out, yet they get made not because they're stupid but because they get their money back.

bABA has indeed, spoken and pwned!


Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:59 pm
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