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 Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida 
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
The Michigan polls are going to be all messed up.

Michigan is an open primary, and since the democrats are abandoning it, many will vote in the Rep primary, I believe for McCain, and I believe he will carry the state.

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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
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Uncommited Culinary Workers?

Hillary Clinton was back on the campaign trail Thursday, after taking most of the day following her come-from-behind New Hampshire victory to do national TV interviews and plot her strategy for the upcoming races.

With Nevada, South Carolina, and February 5th states like California looming, deciding where her time can be best spent is crucial — and the campaign took its time making that determination. Her national press corps wasn’t advised of Thursday’s campaign location until late Wednesday night.

The first stop turned out to be Las Vegas, NV, where Barack Obama has secured the state’s plum endorsement — the Culinary Workers Union. The union represents 60,000 hotel and casino workers in a state where around 10,000 people caucused in 2004, and its support was hotly pursued by all the major candidates.

But canvassing a lower middle class, mostly Hispanic neighborhood with state representative Ruben Kihuen, Clinton played down the union’s importance, saying she’s committed to reaching out and meeting people one-on-one. “It takes a lot of hard work and it takes a lot of outreach and shoe leather and phone calling, and that’s what we are doing, and we’re prepared to just pull out the stops to be just as successful,” she said.

The one-on-one approach, along with her name recognition, seems to be soothing some of the sting of the culinary endorsement. Several union members in the neighborhood told the NY Senator that they would be supporting her despite their union’s pronouncement, and one man at a local restaurant railed against his union’s decision — saying most of the group is with Hillary.


Nobody knows what will happen here or how important it will be in the nominating process; if turnout is as small as it has been in the past, the results here may be discounted by a skeptical national media. But if not, the race could come down to several competing factors: Obama’s union support vs Hillarys big poll advantage and name recognition; his successful Iowa caucus model of turning out Republicans, Independents, and young people vs her appeal with Hispanic voters; and both of their strong organizations here battling it out.

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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
I thought Hillary presented a very clear and well organized case during her Meet the press interview this morning. She continued to pounce on Obama as being a person who spoke correctly in his speech in 2002 yet didn't stand by it in 03, 04, 05 and so forth. I thought she was able to explain the context of the MLK and fairy tale comments by she and Bill. Overall, I thought she did a good job and it makes one wonder why she just doesn't do more of these type of interviews.

It's good to hear Romney is leading in MI. It would be a pleasure if he could translate that into a victory in MI and maybe even SC or at least be in the silver position again.

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Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:33 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
I dislike Romney, but I hope he wins Michigan to take some of the momentum away from McCain.


McCain is an extremely overrated politician, in my opinion.


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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Angela Merkel wrote:
And for good reason. I always get a lot of shit for it (well, conservatives always get a lot of shit, period), but I admire McCain. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat if Obama wasn't in the running.


As a Conservative, what is it about Obama that appeals to you?


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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Cotton wrote:
Angela Merkel wrote:
And for good reason. I always get a lot of shit for it (well, conservatives always get a lot of shit, period), but I admire McCain. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat if Obama wasn't in the running.


As a Conservative, what is it about Obama that appeals to you?

He makes me proud to be American, in a way that has not come to pass for a long time. There is patriotism in the belief that our country can be more than just a directionless mob of partisans vehemently supportive of continuing the political catfight. Many voters are inclined to feed the fight as well, for either emotional or intellectual reasons. They make the excuse of standing up for their principles without acknowledging they are unachievable without compromise. Each to their own; I simply believe it is time for our country to unite in preserving its leadership in this world.

I am temperamentally conservative. So is Obama. Those that disagree on that point obviously have not read much about him and his take on progress. Also, I believe character is of greatest importance in a president. A president's strongest potential lies not in wonkery, but in the possibility of leading the spirit of a nation. Churchill, Roosevelt, Kennedy, and many others did. Many more failed. But it is important, at this time in history, to try and possibly fail than not to try at all. Policymaking is safe in the hands of an intelligent president with a stellar team of advisers; that is why policy means little to me in the Democratic race (all three candidates are similar on that count). Being able to get work done is more important, which explains my opposition to the junior Senator with a strong record of making enemies. ;)

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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Angela Merkel wrote:
Cotton wrote:
Angela Merkel wrote:
And for good reason. I always get a lot of shit for it (well, conservatives always get a lot of shit, period), but I admire McCain. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat if Obama wasn't in the running.


As a Conservative, what is it about Obama that appeals to you?

He makes me proud to be American, in a way that has not come to pass for a long time. There is patriotism in the belief that our country can be more than just a directionless mob of partisans vehemently supportive of continuing the political catfight. Many voters are inclined to feed the fight as well, for either emotional or intellectual reasons. They make the excuse of standing up for their principles without acknowledging they are unachievable without compromise. Each to their own; I simply believe it is time for our country to unite in preserving its leadership in this world.

I am temperamentally conservative. So is Obama. Those that disagree on that point obviously have not read much about him and his take on progress. Also, I believe character is of greatest importance in a president. A president's strongest potential lies not in wonkery, but in the possibility of leading the spirit of a nation. Churchill, Roosevelt, Kennedy, and many others did. Many more failed. But it is important, at this time in history, to try and possibly fail than not to try at all. Policymaking is safe in the hands of an intelligent president with a stellar team of advisers; that is why policy means little to me in the Democratic race (all three candidates are similar on that count). Being able to get work done is more important, which explains my opposition to the junior Senator with a strong record of making enemies. ;)


I agree completely, and you put into words better what I have been arguing -- that leadership is a quality that few really have, that "experience" isn't as important, and that I think Obama has that quality.

Do I think his election will cause everyone to live happily ever after? Do I think I will never disagree with his decisions? Of course not -- but I think his election would best serve the country, moreso than any other candidate now running.

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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Jan08c-dems.pdf

A very, very detailed 17 Page Report on how JAN has shaped up on many different fronts. Pretty much anything and everything is in this big report.

Here are a few things that stuck out to me was this on Page 4, on whether people would vote for an african american or a woman:

---94% say they would vote for a black, while just 71% think most people they know would. And just 54% think the country is ready for a black president now. And whites (58%) are more likely than black voters (48%) to think the country is ready for a black president.


--93% say they would vote for a woman, while 66% think most people they know would. And 65% think the country is ready for a woman president now. 69% of men say the country is ready for a woman president, while 62% of women say the country is ready for a woman president. This is a significant increase from the 58% and 48% of white and black voters who think the country is ready for a black president.


Clinton dominates when it comes to experience over Obama, 64% for Clinton, 16% for Obama.
Obama leads when it comes to fresh idea over Clinton, 39% for Obama, 25% for Clinton.


And the Economy (22%) has overtaken Iraq (17%) as the most important issue in this election. And Clinton leads Obama when it comes to the Economy by double digits.

Both are tied when it comes to who democratic voters think could bring about change, 66% for both Clinton and Obama, but Clinton dominates when it comes to who democratic voters think is prepared to be the next president, 79% for Clinton and just 40% for Obama. So they are both seen as agents of change, but they view Clinton as the better prepared by 39% over Obama.

And both Clinton (62%) and Obama (65%) are seen as being the kind of president that would unite the country.

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Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:13 am
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
I no longer trust the polls. No offense...Hilarys not stupid, but theres now way half 65% of the country thinks she could unite us, She just way too love/hate; theres no way.

I dont trust polls no more.

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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Excel wrote:
I no longer trust the polls. No offense...Hilarys not stupid, but theres now way half 65% of the country thinks she could unite us, She just way too love/hate; theres no way.

I dont trust polls no more.


It's 62%, but still.

Registered Democrats favor Clinton, and she has a higher commited voter percentage among her supporters than Obama does, so 62% doesn't seem that odd really.

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“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:34 am
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Corpse wrote:
Excel wrote:
I no longer trust the polls. No offense...Hilarys not stupid, but theres now way half 65% of the country thinks she could unite us, She just way too love/hate; theres no way.

I dont trust polls no more.


It's 62%, but still.

Registered Democrats favor Clinton, and she has a higher commited voter percentage among her supporters than Obama does, so 62% doesn't seem that odd really.

It is very odd, actually. Nationwide? Probably in the high 40's. Obama is not in the 60's either.

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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Angela Merkel wrote:
Corpse wrote:
Excel wrote:
I no longer trust the polls. No offense...Hilarys not stupid, but theres now way half 65% of the country thinks she could unite us, She just way too love/hate; theres no way.

I dont trust polls no more.


It's 62%, but still.

Registered Democrats favor Clinton, and she has a higher commited voter percentage among her supporters than Obama does, so 62% doesn't seem that odd really.

It is very odd, actually. Nationwide? Probably in the high 40's. Obama is not in the 60's either.



When asked if you think the two leading candidates in your party will unite the country, the majority is going to say yes by default really, whether or not they really believe it's true nor not. I'm sure Huckabee/McCain/Romney would see similar numbers when/if something like this is released on the REP side. I think they are waiting though since it's still a 4 person race really, it'd be over 50 pages. :zonks:

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“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:42 am
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Never mind, this is a Democrats-only poll. My mistake. Got confused, as the last similar poll I scanned was for both parties.

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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Corpse wrote:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Jan08c-dems.pdf

---94% say they would vote for a black, while just 71% think most people they know would. And just 54% think the country is ready for a black president now. And whites (58%) are more likely than black voters (48%) to think the country is ready for a black president.


--93% say they would vote for a woman, while 66% think most people they know would. And 65% think the country is ready for a woman president now. 69% of men say the country is ready for a woman president, while 62% of women say the country is ready for a woman president. This is a significant increase from the 58% and 48% of white and black voters who think the country is ready for a black president.
[/b]


I trust the black and women voters are more realistic in their appraisals.

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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
All kinds of new surveys at pollster.

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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Hopefully Obama can follow through with the SC win over that racist prick :whaa: If you hate racism, dont vote for Hillary :whaa:


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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
A Nevada poll (Jan 11 - 13):

Barack Obama: 32 percent
Hillary Clinton: 30 percent
John Edwards: 27 percent

John McCain: 22 percent
Rudy Giuliani: 18 percent
Mike Huckabee: 16 percent
Mitt Romney: 15 percent
Fred Thompson: 11 percent
Ron Paul: 6 percent
Duncan Hunter: 1 percent

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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
xiayun wrote:
A Nevada poll (Jan 11 - 13):

Barack Obama: 32 percent
Hillary Clinton: 30 percent
John Edwards: 27 percent

John McCain: 22 percent
Rudy Giuliani: 18 percent
Mike Huckabee: 16 percent
Mitt Romney: 15 percent
Fred Thompson: 11 percent
Ron Paul: 6 percent
Duncan Hunter: 1 percent



Yeah, just saw the first Nevada poll in over a month. And it really shows how much a month can change things. Edwards has doubled/tripled his poll numbers from the only DEC polls taken. And all this despite winning IA or NH, and without the Culinary Workers endorsement. Speaking of which, I just read there is some lawsuit going on with the Culinary Workers and some parts may not be able to vote or something if it goes through.

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“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:20 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
I have been watching and reading the attacks Clinton and Obama have been making on eachother this past week, this is the most viciouse primary since 2000 when Bush went after mcCain.
Obama's people saying how Clinton thinks Martin Luthur King wasnt jack shit, Clinton's camp saying how Obama is a former crackhead.

I love it.

:funny:


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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
neo_wolf wrote:
I have been watching and reading the attacks Clinton and Obama have been making on eachother this past week, this is the most viciouse primary since 2000 when Bush went after mcCain.
Obama's people saying how Clinton thinks Martin Luthur King wasnt jack shit, Clinton's camp saying how Obama is a former crackhead.

I love it.

:funny:

This week, President McCain is looking more and more likely. It's amazing how fast things can change.


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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Quote:
New SC Poll, REPS

McCain - 28%
Huckabee - 19%
Romney - 17%
Thompson - 16%




New SC Poll, DEMS

Obama - 38%
Clinton - 33%
Edwards - 17%

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“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
still not trusting polls :sweat:

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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Primaries close at 9, any last minute predictions?

I think McCain pulls off a minor upset, wins by 4%

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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Early exit polls from various places:

* 68% of voters in the Republican primary identified as Republican; a quarter said they were independents and 7% said they were Democrats.... (in 2000, only 45% said they were Republican)..

* 44% say they decided in the final week

* 55% of voters said the economy is the most pressing issue facing the nation, followed by 18% picking Iraq, 14% who named illegal immigration, and 10% who pointed to terrorism.

All of these should favor Romney. I think he will win by 4 points.

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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Eagle wrote:
Primaries close at 9, any last minute predictions?

I think McCain pulls off a minor upset, wins by 4%


Very possible. I hope Romney gets it though. Because I want chaos in the Republican party! :P

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