But you see, there will be no change for that. Riots or not. France is not Germany. You'd have to live here to understand. Not a single party here would suggest to overthrow this law, so it is not a matter of a current party at reign. It will stay this way. For a long long time. No change to be expected, no matter who will get elected. The constituion will remain the same for quite a long time. You suggest a violent overthorw of the government entirely maybe? Because that would be pretty much the only way to change it. As it stands, this option does not exist.




What makes me better? Nothing. As I said, some people are luckier than others. I don't see that being wrong. A worldwide equality is a nice ideal that will never work out. It never has and it never will.

Better get ready for a lifetime of bitching about dirty immigrants who do nothing but live off other taxpayers' money.


It's not about "worldwide equailty"; I could care less about that shit. It's about YOU telling OTHERS where they can and can't live.

See above.

Moreover, you could think in simper terms. Immigrants mean cheap workers. I want to compete with that? Of course not. When thinking about my own benefits, being fair is not always the first thing I think about

Its not as though having immigrants or not isnt going to guarantee competition, most goods are made in china and jobs get shipped overseas and even customer service in most places are shipped to India

Very true. But "less" competition.

I guess, according to that logic, you also see nothing wrong with somebody robbing a bank and then giving you half the proceeds.

Hmmm, maybe in a situation where I am dirt-poor I'd think about it. As it stands, I am fine with my monetary situation. Could be better, but I am not that desperate. Besides that, I oppose "illegal" immigration. Since robbing the bank is illegal as well, I oppose it too.

But you could try and come up with another example

Uh-uh. Immigrants mean cheap workers, like you said. They do compete with you for your jobs. But not all immigrants are illegal. Thus you must want less legal migration for your benefit (or none at all, in the extreme). Basically, you want to restrict other people's movements just to benefit yourself.

Immigrants smell. They should go back to the boat they came from!

No, I do want immigration for several reasons. Among those are:

- Diversity (even though, I do think that immigrants need to integrate better here than they do recently. unlike USA, German IS the official language here, but that is besides the point)

- Without immigration, the population of Germany would have gone down by almost 10 million over the last 15 years and the average age would have been considerably higher. That would, in no way, benefit the economy either. It actually would make the things worse for the country and its population (inluding myself, of course).

But I do believe in regulated immigration. That for several reasons as well. Welfare policiy being the one, cheap workers being the other. This is not fair towards everyone. But basically, I can live with that. I can live with legal immigration because if the government here (which is still lenient) allows certain immigrants to come, then they usually have a good reason for that too. I am usually in agreement about the immigration regulations here as such. It is what happens once they are in the country and the welfare, that is where I disagree with the government. Their regulations for immigration themselves are fine by me.

I find it funny and disturbing at the same time that you expect the government to find a solution to the problem it created.

Amnesty would simply change this technicality from "illegal" to "legal," which means this rather silly objection would automatically go away.

As a matter of fact, I do. According to a CBS report, illegal immigrants, using false social security numbers, paid over $300 million in taxes in 2003. In fact, illegal immigrants will pay, on average, $80,000 MORE in taxes than they will get back in services from the govt. And because their social security numbers are false, most of them will not get returns or social security benefits despite paying into the system.

And nearly all of them pay sales taxes, taxes on utilities and services, and property taxes either in the form of rent or mortgage to a legal family member.

@BEEBLEROX: If anybody is gullible it is liberal dumbos who immediately deny a report because it was from a republican. Only the democrats must speak the truth. You seem to fit right into the idiotic liberal mold, making the most idiotic statements without facts and denying the true facts because it was produced by a republican. Also I notice you conveniently forgot that two democratic governors had to declare emergencies in their states due to high costs of Illegal immigration.

As for the accident issue, 40 % of the drivers in Nevada are uninsured. The reason, high auto insurance rates. Why is it high? A lot of illegals without insurance causing accidents. I am sure there are other legal resident dirtbags who drive without insurance. But the difference is that the legal residents can be sued and made to pay restitution which is what all insurance companies do. How is one going to sue an illegal with no assets, home? Stop before you make a complete fool of yourself.

I've provided facts provided by the govt and a news report, not politicians with an agenda. Like Bush, you're cherry-picking information to suit your own ends and ignoring larger issues and overall economic impact.

In other words, you're doing exactly what you accuse me of doing, only I'm providing actual numbers and facts from neutral sources.





Wait, so first you accuse me of bias toward Democrats, then you accuse me of ignoring what they say. Which is it? Between us, you're the one who brought up Democrats, not me.

Bill Richardson is the only Democrat who declared a state of emergency, and for severe crime issues related to border crossings and enforcement, not the high cost of illegal immigration. The Fox News story was about California hospitals, but it conflated ALL uninsured patients with illegals, without specifically saying what the cost of illegals-only is to hospitals. And then of course you posted a link to a Republican senator's website.

Does your irrational stupidity on this issue have ANY limits at all?

Apparently not:



It should not be surprising to learn that this "fact" isn't even remotely true. According to the IRC, 15% of Nevada drivers are uninsured, not 40%. And Nevada's illegal immigrant population is estimated at 10%. Which means that not only are these numbers not tied together in any meaningful way, you're deliberately overrplaying the number of illegals and basically outright dismissing the number of legal citizens who aren't insured.

And all of this ignores that fact that one of the remedies that would immediately alleviate the latter problem is amnesty, which would provide illegals with documentation and citizenship that would allow them to get the legal licensing and insurance that the vast majority of them want.

As of now, the problem here is not immigration itself, though, as Germany made it relatively harder in the past years to get into the country. So that solution has already been created. That does not need a solution anymore. The whole social network system does and I do not expect the government to find a solution for that.

I do believe your actually studying at university right now? Suggesting your not going to be working in bottom level, no-one-else-wants-them jobs that immigrants are forced to take to live.

Lecter you seem to oppose everything thats against the law. Drinking under the age of 18 is against the law, Meeting in a group larger than 6 or maybe 12 people in the UK is against the law without permission. Striking is against the law here. I suppose you think all of those things are right because the government says so as well!?

Jeez, Beeble. Given jb007's situation, don't you think you ought to lay off?

I wouldn't be downloading Lost either if I was against evrything that is against the law. I bet anything that each and every single person on these boards has at some point done something against the law and enjoyed it. Pure 100%. Moreover, you obviously did not fully understand the argument I have been having if you think that I am against everything that is illegal. Just against something that I think might have consequences on me, negative ones.

And as for your first statement, I believe that you generalize the immigrants too much as well. Not every immigrants is an idiot who has to take a job as a janitor or whatnot because he/she can't do anything else.

I don't think that his situation makes it okay for him to spread misinformation about a whole entire swath of people for the purpose of getting rid of them, do you? I was injured in a car accident by a senior citizen, but I didn't go around spreading a bunch of fake statistics trying to get them thrown out of the country.

Check Beeblerox posts:

He supports people whose whole lives are built on fraud in every facet of life over people who play by the rules.

Quotes 1995-1997 IRC reports as good enough for 2006 Las Vegas. That 40% Las Vegas uninsured rate comes from local TV reports.

Says the cost of illegal immigration is a drop in the bucket when several states have declared emergencies because of illegal immigration costs. Parts of hospitals have been closed because of rampant illegal immigant usage in the southwest. Check the links I have provided in earlier posts.

Dismisses Senator Kyl's data on Illegal immigrant Emergency Room costs, because he is a republican and is against illegal immigration. Does not provide anything to counter Senator Kyl's statistics other than the moronic liberal talkpoint.

Says Bill Richardson was the only Democrat to decalare emergency. Arizona governor did the same and she is a democrat. Here is the reason for the emergency declaration,



Arizona Gov Declares Emergency

This dude needs to get his head examined.

I am fed up being critisized for generalizations.
Yes, good for you people who recognise when someone is generalizing and when someone is not? Sometimes I read things on the board that make me wonder where people are going with it. Like, why do some people say stuff for no real reason related to the conversation, don't think im targeting you Lecter because i've been told off for generalizing several times over the past few days on here.

Just because I don't lie about the impact of illegal immigrants the way you do, doesn't mean I support them OVER those who play by the rules. I'm simply not consumed by hate against them the way you seem to be.



First of all, you didn't say "Las Vegas," you said "Nevada." One's a city, the other is the state that it's in.

Seriously, you're an amateur, dude.



Kyl's "data", like yours, is wildly misleading. Like you, he leaves out context and conflates information to drastically misrepresent the real impact of illegal immigrtation.

You're also a hypocrite, since you're dismissing MY data as "liberal talking points." Once again, you're criticizing me for doing exactly what you're doing.

You have no principles. You certainly don't care about real facts or reality. Whatever helps you feel comforted in your deep hatred of illegal aliens, and everything else gets filtered out.



As in the other example, these declarations have NOTHING to do with emergency rooms or health costs, etc. They are SPECIFICALLY related to CRIME enforcement along the border and border enforcement. And I'm against neither of those.

I think there's a bigger question here for those who only seem interested in pointing out how evil illegal immigrants are.

And that is, what exactly do you propose to do about it? Arrest all 11 million of them? Deport all 11 million of them? Or maybe if you're jb007, run over all 11 million of them with your car?

The simplest and most effective solution it seems to me would be encouraging them to be documented by allowing amnesty for those already here. Get them on the books, on the grid, and let them start contributing officially.

The only solutions offered by the other side are ludicrous or impractical. So if you oppose amnesty, what else is there?

my penis is bigger than yours