OK, critics from Utah have spoken:

BEST PICTURE
Spider-Man 2 (box, did you move to Utah? )

BEST ACTOR
Johnny Depp – Finding Neverland

BEST ACTRESS
Kate Winslet – Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR
Thomas Haden Church - Sideways

BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS
Virginia Madsen - Sideways

BEST ACTING ENSEMBLE
Sideways

BEST DIRECTOR
Marc Forster – Finding Neverland

BEST WRITER (Original or Adapted Screenplay)
Alexander Payne - Sideways

BEST ANIMATED FEATURE
The Incredibles

BEST ACTOR (Under 21)
Freddie Highmore – Finding Neverland

BEST ACTRESS (Under 21)
Lindsay Lohan – Mean Girls

BEST FOREIGN LANGUAGE FILM
A Very Long Engagement

BEST SONG
Only a Woman a.k.a Pearl Harbor Sucks (And I Miss You) –
Team America: World Police

BEST SOUNDTRACK
Team America: World Police

BEST COMPOSER
Michael Giacchino – The Incredibles

BEST DOCUMENTARY FEATURE
Super Size Me

The UFCS LEGACY AWARD - (Contribution to film by a citizen of Utah)
Geralyn White-Dreyfous – The Salt Lake Film Center (Tie)
Ryan Little – Director, Saints & Soldiers (Tie)

http://www.utahfilmcritics.com/awards2004.html

Very Interesting picks!

The Aviator... where is the Aviator??? :evil:

Ok, Spiderman can't make it into any of the other categories, yet it wins their best picture award . And for the love of god, Finding Neverland has got to be the most undeserving major oscar contender this year. I mean, what a totally soft and incredibly sappy picture that has absolutley NO edge whatsoever. And I would actually be fine with that, as I can get misty pretty easily, if they had made you care more for the characters. Things happen too fast and we're asked to care and I just didn't. And Johnny Depp, while good, does not deserve a nomination for this film and neither does Winslet.

Anyway, yeah....so

....I really need to see Sideways, as all this praise is starting to annoy me. I must see if it is indeed warranted.

BennyBlanco is my new friend. Telling it like it is.

I'm glad I have some support on this matter. It just kind of bugs me at the prospects of films like Ray and Finding Neverland, which are shameless oscar bait, being nominated for best picture this year. Choices like those are just too safe and boring. At least I know The Aviator has a spot sewn up, as that film is massive entertainment on a grand scale, showcasing a master filmmaker in top form.

This year really shows us how just two different nominees could make a massive difference. This lineup:

The Aviator
Sideways
Million Dollar Baby
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Hotel Rwanda

could be regarded as one of the best ever as each film seems to have passionate fans to rally with, and it combined crtically-acclaimed indies with critically-acclaimed big production from one of the masters.

However, this lineup:

The Aviator
Sideways
Million Dollar Baby
Finding Neverland
Ray

could be regarded as one of the most boring lineups ever since this is the same one we saw a month ago when NBR started.

I do disagree here. The Aviator is just as much bait. It has a more interesting story to tell than Neverland, but it is bait. And I'm not a Scorsese fan.

But we can find kinship in the hatred of Neverland and Spiderman

Just because some of us don't like Finding Neverland or Ray doesn't mean that those films don't have fans. On Oscarwatch they posted stars' (some Oscar voters!) reactions to films and they mentioned how much they liked Ray, Eternal Sunshine, etc. and Neverland definately has it's fans.

And to say Neverland or Ray were not critically acclaimed is really stretching reality to make a point. Even though I don't happen to even like Neverland...

In my opinion, a no B.S. Best Picture line up would be:

Collateral
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
The Incredibles
Sideways
Million Dollar Baby

But nobody asks me do they

I don't see where I said Neverland and Ray weren't critcially acclaimed.

I do believe having Eternal Sunshine and Hotel Rwanda nominated will cause a lot more fans happier than having Finding Neverland and Ray, especially on the Internet. What I also meant how only two different nominees bring an entire different look to people. If I see the second list come true the nomination morning, my first reaction will be how boring it is, and I bet that will be the main reaction out of OscarWatch forum as well. If people see the first list, there will be a lot of jumping ups and downs for the Eternal Sunshine fans. The reactions at OW will be totally different.

Also, I see a lot of loves for The Aviator across the internet among us movie buffs, where a lot of people have pre-conceived negative opinion on oscar-baity films going in. It's certainly not the same as Cold Mountain last year, when people were very much hoping to get snubbed.

xiayun, I expected you to be more level-headed and intelligent about this...


Two films that have made (so far) more together than Eternal Sunshine and Hotel Rwanda. You are cherry picking fan bases. In general, I can easily make the argument that Neverland and Ray have more active, butt-in-seat, theater/movie fans than Sunshine or Rwanda.


Who cares?


Yes because I'm sure Hollywood cares about OscarWatch's reaction.


I will be overjoyed for Eternal Sunshine. It would mean my #1 and #2 film of the year are nominated! But still... are you trying to predict Oscars or are you trying to predict Oscarwatch?

Nobody cares about OW except Oscarwatch members.

Sorry, I still don't see any flaw in my argument. I'm NOT trying to predict the nominations here. I'm only saying how different the reaction will be for different scenarios come nomination morning.

You're also totally missing my point. I only use OscarWatch as an example for the audience. Do you know how many more critics have Eternal Sunshine as their No. 1 picks than Ray and Finding Neverland combined? How many more top 10 lists it made than those two (both critically and people who have time to make a top 10 list)? You must be living in a different world if you think the love for Ray and Finding Neverland is as strong as the love for Eternal Sunshine. Ray is all about Jamie Foxx and Ray himself. That's why it got the money it has. To say Ray is more loved comparing to Eternal Sunshine because it earned more box office wise is just a flawed statement. Then we might as well crown Shrek 2 the best picture.

I'm not saying those five in the second list will be nominated. I'm only saying it will be cool/great if those are nominated, IMO, although it isn't the list I'm predicting. To get that kind of response out of you for a simple statement like that is really surprising.

P.S. I haven't seen either Ray or Hotel Rwanda, and as people can see, I have Finding Neverland ahead of Eternal Sunshine on my list so far, although my feeling for FN is fading while for ES is growing. So I don't think I come across as trying to trash Ray or FN here. It's like last year. If Cold Mountain had replaced Lost in Translation in the BP nominees, the list would've looked 45.5% more boring. I'm hoping this won't be a year where the surprise is there is no surprise. Anyway, that's enough from me on a discussion that I never intended to take place but is hijacking the thread.

No...:mrgreen:

I'm happy that it won. Hopefully it can win a tech oscar too.

No you are taking OscarWatch, a site mostly full of 20 year olds, and trying to project their opinions on an Academy and a movie going public which is really non-representative of their tastes.


I'm afraid i'm not missing your point, you are just saying much more than you probably intended to.


Do you know how many critics are AMPAS members? Do you know how many #1's Seabiscuit got? Not very many!


Yes, I live in the real world, where the ease of Ray and Finding Neverland are easy for an audience which finds Eternal Sunshine quirky and difficult.


Really? Where do you get this figure? Did you poll everyone? Or is this more information from OscarWatch? If so, why does this matter? People obviously still liked the movie? You could say: The Aviator has all of it's money because of Scorsese. Is that wrong?


Shrek 2 is an Oscar competator BTW! Box Office is NOT an incidental marker in the Best Picture race. And it's NOT a flawed statement. It's a very true reality. It's marker. It's not the "whole story".


If that's what you are saying, that's fine, but that's not WHAT you said.


A simple statement? You are placing unfair value judgements on films which don't exist. Claiming Hotel Rwanda has fans when the film hasn't really even been screened to the public! You were making unfair value judgements, and I called you on it.

Oh and to answer your question about the "critically acclaimed" status, you do the following in your sentence. You first define the fact that 2 films can make a race seem great or boring, then you stack the "good" side with the main stat that they are "critically acclaimed". When making comparisons, one must be careful.

On top of that, you enter here and say the entire value of Ray is tied up in Foxx when that is CLEARLY not the case if you've actually read any of the reviews. And I personally could care less, it's leading actor is also the primary value of Finding Neverland (which seems like a sure bet?) and Hotel Rwanda (which seems to be as much about Cheadle as Foxx was about Ray).

BTW, this thread is awesome, I'm arguing with someone I normally respect, xiayun, about two films I don't really like (Ray and Finding Neverland... well to be fair I saw a really bad copy of Ray...) and one I haven't seen (Hotel Rwanda) about an awards show I don't trust or think is valid and is entirely overrun by corporations.

Woot! I've hit a new internet low!

add-rock, I do enjoy reading a lot of your opinions on awards and movies, many of which I happen to agree, and some I don't, but this discussion just seems to come out of nowhere.

I read back my initial post that started this whole chain of reactions, and no matter how many times I read, the only thing I found myself saying was that if one set of films gets nominated, it could possibly be regarded as one of the best ever, by some at least, while if another set of films get nominated, it could be regarded as one of the most boring ever. Boring doesn't mean the films in the lineup aren't loved. Boring means we saw that lineup coming long time ago, and somehow someway, none of the events happened months after change the dynamic of the race. If Oscar indeed nominates the 5 films that were expected a month ago by many to be nominated, that's the definition of "boring." I never said anywhere that I'm predicting "the bolder set" is going to get nominated, neither any where that I'm stating the reason that it is going to be nominated. If I'm wrong and you can point out where I stated that, I'll be happy to apologize. I put value judgement on "the boringness", not the quality, and I do sincerely believe most people will find Finding Neverland and Ray the more boring choices than Eternal Sunshine and Hotel Rwanda. Does it mean they won't like the lineup of Finding Neverland and Ray? Not necessarily at all. It's human nature that people are hoping for surprises, regardless whether the surprises are good or bad with respect to their movie tastes.

Even in the last post, you still seem to be convinced that I was using OscarWatch to try to justify Hotel Rwanda and Eternal Sunshine will get nominated over Finding Neverland and Ray, when I wasn't doing that at all(I must be insane to try to use such justification). Again, if you can quote me in saying that, I'll apologize. I was merely saying if one set of films get nominated, I, along with many at OscarWatch and KJ, will be very happy, while if the other set is nominated, a lot of us will feel let down, even though some of us may still like all the films in that lineup.

By the way, my current prediction is Finding Neverland and Hotel Rwanda, along with the big three.

Let me step in if there is some room for discussion left...

At the moment I fully and completely agree with Xiayun's pics. Besides the locks, I see Finding Neverland and Hotel Rwanda being nominated.

I don't think Eternal Sunshine will make the cut due to the nomination of Sideways. These two films are somewhat similar. Both are more or less quirky indies which recived universal acclaim. If it wasn't for Sideways, I'd definitely root for Eternal Sunshine at the moment. However, it seems that most people who like Sideways also like Eternal Sunshine just with the difference that they like Sideways somewhat more and would therefore give it an edge. Also (and I will keep repeating this argument) the combination of a very early release date and rather low box-office will hurt Eternal Sunshine's chances. If Sideways was released back in March and Eternal Sunshine in fall, it'd all be the other way round.

I really don't believe that Ray will be nominated simply because the subject of matter is not that important. Sure, the Academy likes to nominate lighthearted films as well as biopics. However, I think the slot of a lighthearted film will go to Finding Neverland this year while The Aviator will snatch the biopic one. I consider Ray less of a contender than Eternal Sunshine (which gets by far and away more acclaim), Finding Nverland (which had better pre-cursor awards) and Hotel Rwanda (which has a more important subject of matter ===> The Pianist).

Finding Neverland will most likely get nominated, now that it got a PGA nom along with the #1 at the NBR, so unless it puls a Cold Mountain on us, I think it's very close to a lock for a nom now.

Hotel Rwanda will have to duke it out with Eternal Sunshine. However, for the reasons I've stated above, I don't believe that Eternal Sunshine will be nominated, thus giving the edge to Hotel Rwanda.