http://us.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/12/22/ ... index.html

the entire article speaks for itself.

Public schools. The enemy of free expression

I'm involved a similar case right now.
The fact is the law is becoming that Christians just aren't allowed to express themselves in school for fear of who they MIGHT offend.

Well that's silly. i had to sing christmas songs all the time when I was a kid and went to nursing homes, etc, it didn't much bother me. I guess if I was very religious I would ask to not participate, and as long as I wasn't penalized for it (got a bad grade, etc) than i wouldn't care. I guess the complaint was that there was no alternative. Ok, there this thing called self-determined education. If its band, than ask you teacher for a different piece of sheet music and practice it. set up a one-on-one one afternoon during after school help to go over it. Meh...these kids, if I was given the oppotunity to get out of something and still get a good grade I would have damn well taken it and then just gone down to the art room and have done what i actually wanted to be doing.

I don't think the kids should have been forced to sing if they were uncomfty. I didn't like how the dad said that when he was younger the teacher said he had to sing every word or it wouldn't be considered participation, but thankfully we're a bit more sensetive to these things today and the kid can just sit out the song and read a good book.

I think you have something here. Its sad that while we continue to strive towards liberalism and acceptance of things, when it comes to religion, theres this whole idea of abstaining from religious practices. I would rather see a fairer representation of religion in schools (how it is in universities) than see a religious activity disappear because its unfair for other sects.

I know even back in karachi, where 95% of the school was Muslim, the school offered alternative courses in scripture while an islamic studies class was taking place (which btw, was mandatory). They were soon starting something up for hinduism as well ... everyone else was completely exempted from all of this

You're one hateful person today there baba. How bout next time you find an article can you make it anti-hippy so we can hate together?

Yeah that story is frustrating, but not as frustrating and anger-inducing as this story.

I'm not wild about the secular purists, they go overboard and the case in that article is silly, but it's a lot better than the horrors committed under theocracies. So I take the N.J. issue with a grain of salt.

You know, if you want to ban something, then why don't you start by banning organisations like NAMBLA?!

Yes. Those things do piss me off quite a bit. There is no excuse for it at all.

I bring up these other topics though because people this is a more mature, free society and people actually think they're taking a step in the right direction ....

in some senses, i see these 2 issues on the opposite side of the spectrum .. one side thats being exceeding conservative and stupid, and another thats being extremely right and stupid as well.

ofcourse, this issue is in no way bigger than a girl being sentenced to death for something thats not really her fault to begin with.

yeah, we used to have a "moment of silence" during home room in the morning where i went to school where people could pray if they wanted to. never bothered me. everyone else just got to sit and relax for a minute. any you didn't have to pray in one particular way, I'm sure had a paid attention different people would have been doing different things. I forget, but i think there was a push to eliminate it which was silly. where I used to work one man was Muslim and it was required by contract that when he needed to, he was allowed to stop what he was doing quickly and do his thing. I like how in work its mandatory to resepct that because otherwise its considered religiously descriminate hireing practices, but in schools its not considered being religiously descriminate if you don't let someone do what they have to do. Mah, i was always a little irked by that. as long as you're not praying for my death because I don't share the same concerns you do, I could really care less, and even then I surely care, but I guess there isn't much i can do about it.

Because they're not doing anything illegal.

Man Boy Love....you gotta least suspect htem to be doing sagitory rape....i got a story about them...hold on

Well, that ruined my afternoon.


What a terrible story.

Statutory?

Why would you suspect them of that? DO you suspect Penthouse readers of rape?

Oh yeah, I forgot, I am talking about the glorious USA where Nazi parties (real ones that even legally use the swastica, not the wannabe-ones like over here) are allowed.

Yes. We also allow the sale of Mein Kampf and other silly things. And guess what - those parties have no real following. Imagine that.

That's one of the things I love about the US of A. You can get all of that stuff, yet no one cares. Why? Because they have alternatives to choose from.

But why allowing it in first place, why?

from Michael Savage's "The Enemy Within"

In October of 1997, 10 year old Jeffrey Curley was playing at his home in Cambridge, Massachusettes when two homosexual lovers decided to lur Jeffrey into a sexual encounter. Charles Jaynes, one of the gay men, had been a member of NAMBLA for about ayear. NAMBLA is an organization that advocates sex with children.

Jaynes wrote in his personal diary, discovered by police, that finding NAMBLA "was a turning point in the discovery of myself. NAMBLA's Bulletin helped me to become aware of my own sexuality and accepance of it."

I'll give you just two sentences from the NAMBLA publication hes' talking about. Tell me this isn't outright pedophilia propaganda: "Call it love, call it lust, call it whatever you want. We desire sex with boys, and boys, whether society is willing to admit it, desire sex with us."

According to trial records, the men secretly stole Jeffrey's bicycle then offered to help him find it. After a bogus serach, they told Jeffrey the would buy him a new bicycle. What did Jeffrey know? He was just an innocent kid who took them at their word.

On the way to the store then men tried to pay Jeffrey for sex. When he refused, they suffocated him with a rag soaked in gasoline, dragged his lifeless body back to their apartment and sodomized his corpse. They zipped his body into a plastic container before tehy dumped him ina nearby river.

The Cambridge police ofund NAMBLA literature and a manual published by NAMBLA called "Rape and Escape" that, according to one eye witness, graphically details how pedphiles might lure, befriend, and rape a child, then avoid detectina nd prosecution. Understandably, the parents of little JEffrey have sued NAMBLA for its role in what amounts to an acessory to murder.

Who in their right mind would defend NAMBLA?

What kind of person or organization would defend such a beastly scab on the face of soceity?

The ALCU, thats who. Free of charge, too.

JOhn Roberts, executive driector of the AMerican Civil Liberties Association of MAssachusetts, had this to say about the case. Listen to this genius: "While we join with all others in deploring the heinous crimes committed against Jeffrey Curley, two people have been convicted of his murder and are serving life sentences."

The vacand soul makes me so angry I'd like to break something. Is he implying justice has been served? The bad guys are in jail, right? Wrong. Not all of the bad guys are behind bars. The reprehensible beasts of NAMBLA are still peddling the same kind of material that contributed to JEffrey's death. And if you can belive this, Amazon.com is selling subscriptions to NAMBLA's official periodical on their website even as I write.

ACLUM legal director John Reinstein, who's in bed with NAMBLA as their legal defense, puts the proverbial free speech spin on Jeffrey's death. Reinstein had the nerve to say, "I think it is fair to say that most people disagree with NAMBLA and that many would find its publications offensive. Reguardless of whtehr people agree with or abhor NAMBLA's views, holding the organizatin responsibel for crimes commited by others who read their materials would gravely endanger important First Ammendment freedoms."

Why don't you just give that canned speech to Jeffrey.

Tell JEffrey about being in a grave.

TEll JEffrey about losing his precious freedom.

Tell JEffrey about abhorring NAMBLA.

OR did you forget Jeffrey was tortured, raped, and murdered at the hands of two grown men who just happened to fill their minds with NAMBLA's material?

ARe you ready for the kicker? The ACLU asked the judge to impose a gag order on the case. How amazingly ironic the ACLU, woudl want to prohibit the details and truth of thsi traial from ever becomoing public.

Why not? We're not afraid of some things someone might say. Like box pointed out, there's always an alternative point of view.

The POV which makes the most sense to the people wins.

Coasterman we are civilized men; we know the difference between words and action. The people who killed Jeffrey Curley deserve to be punished whether they were members of NAMBLE or the Catholic Church (which, as you know, is not free of wrongdoing by a long shot). The people who advocate removing age of consent laws are not guilty of anything; their advocacy is not criminal.

ok did you even read how NAMBLA promotes themselves...."Call it love, call it lust, call it whatever you want. We desire sex with boys, and boys, whether society is willing to admit it, desire sex with us."


and you're telling me thats not against the law?

Of course not. Why should it be against the law?

This is one of the reasons why Americans will NEVER be well-liked in Europe. Even the creation of Nazi websites is forbidden over here, but since it's allowed in the USA, people just locate it at an US-domain.

Bleh.

a) sex with a minor
b) promotes rape....didndt know rape was legal
c)and the method that they got from NAMBLA was raping and how to escape

oh yeah thats pefectly fine