Now, I don't want to go over and over the obvious fix that was in last time, as we all know it's true, and more importantly, the mere mention of what we all know is true , bothers the fans of LOTR , who deep down know that the plot holes and uneven editing in the evenings big winner, made a joke out of the Oscars ceremony last year, as they weren't even embarrassed to award such a movie in record numbers, even though it would make it look obvious that the fix was in.

So, with that said, do you think the fix will be in again this year, and if so, do you think it will be as obvious, or that they'll be a little more subtle like they usually are, when awarding movies and other awards that they decided to award long before they even viewed the films?

doubt it'll be a fix .. theres no more LOTR this year .... while rotk won IMO on the merit of the entire trilogy and the robbing of fotr, there is nothing like it this year.

On top of that, you're looking at a year dominated by indies and moderate grossers .. movies that at the end of the day, will not have a huge presence in the market place nor the people who watch these movies ... so theres no real controversy that can brood, unless ofcourse, they pull a sham like this did 2 years ago ...

While I do agree that ROTK wasn't awarded on it's own merits, the 11 win sweep, and nominating things that had already been nominated, were indeed crossing the line. That Into the West song was awful, and didn't deserve an Oscar, let alone a nom, but they needed to make headlines with a record, and lure back an audience. The score(which had already been nominated, because it was mostly the score from TTT) and the FX (which all the best parts of was already nominated from TTT) had no business getting noms again, but the headlines ruled the show.

It really makes one wonder if they will once again pander to the audience for ratings , or if some other type of fix will set in. I'm not sure if Passion of the Christ is up for a best picture, or if they'll consider it a foreign film because of the language, but awarding a movie like that would definitely ruffle feathers and be controversial, and that academy loves that Mel.

Not sure about the status of F911 as an eligible film either, but wouldn't liberal Hollywood love to stick it in Bush's ass if it were.

I don't foresee a fix on the level of last year's fiasco, but I still see the upcoming awards as being predetermined, with names already decided long ago. For instance, Best Director will either go to Eastwood, to make up for what they did last year, or Scorcese, because they feel it's finally "his turn".

well, the way you say it, isn't how it is every single year?? 2001 with Ron Howard, 2002 I'd rather not even mention cause I dont want any flaming ... and every year before then??

Yes, it's very political every year, but last year was an outright farce.

It's political every year, but the qualities of nominations and winners are usually still very good. By all accounts, Million Dollar Baby and The Aviator are good movies, especially MDB. Oscar will never be like Cannes or Venice, but it's certainly not People's Choice awards either.

For every undeserving winner(which one is undeserving is different for each person), each of us can list a deserving winner as well. I remember in 2002 when Spirited Away won best animated feature, Eminem won best song, and The Pianist won 3 awards to break the predicted sweep of Chicago, I was so happy.

I haven't watched the Oscars in a number of years, because they are always a sham.
I was displeased by the over-kill with ROTK. I thought that FOTR was the best of the three (though i did not love it, i am not a huge fan of the trilogy) and FOTR was the most deserving of the three. The Academy had a choice to make, they were either going to award the 3 films differently, or wait for the last one and give that one the awards for all 3. We obviously know which one they did, but i think that it was the wrong choice.
I do not care that much either way though, as the thing i am more mad about is the hipocracy of some LOTR fans. After FOTR won basically nothing every fan i knew threw a hissy fit. Over and over they would talk about how the Oscars mean nothing anyway as the winners are never that good. I agreed but i have thought that for a while now. Then the next year i was expecting no one to watch to i asked if they wanted to do something that night but they all said that they are watching the Oscars. I thought to myself "okay, i could have sworn they said that the Oscars were meaningless, but whatever...". So then the next year rolled around and they all watched again, even though leading up to it they were complaining non-stop about how the Academy voters are morons and whatnot. So the next day, they are all telling me all about it (as if i didn't know) and they are fishing for "yay", "ROTK deserved it", etc, and i tried to tell them what they wanted to hear but i was not very enthused so one of them asked me about it and i told her what i thought. There was a big argument (basically me vs everyone else).
We all moved on, but i still get kind of annoyed when they talk about it.

I know exactly what you mean about the hypocritical fans. They went from "The Oscars are meaningless and they are fixed" to singing the praises of the 11 Oscar sweep that "proved" them right about the greatness of the movies all along.

to be quite honest, the past few years, I've found them all a sham and equally so ...

I've never taken them seriously, but last year was

Yes.

:violin: boo hoo. the oscars are fixed.

hmm. here's s thought. don't watch them. :thebird:

hehe. :Respect:

They are always a sham, because the average movie goer is like 22 and the average academy member/ reviewer/ critic type who influence this stuff is much older.

So you have films about mid life crisis leading the way more often than not.

Middle aged people are just as narrow as younger people in terms of just picking what speaks to them personally and not taking a broader view. It's all a joke, and has little to do with what hollywood actually produces day in day out.

An Honest Oscars would be something like this:

Spider-Man 2
Aviator
Life Aquatic
Finding Neverland
Collateral

Everytime I read a post by Maverikk in the Oscar forums, I just feel like punching something real hard.

for my record...

1. I am a big LOTR fan
2. I consider myself as un-bias as possible
3. Fellowship was the best in the trilogy
4. Return of the King on its own merits did not deserve the win, but considering it was quite a weak set of nods (aside Mystic River) I'm glad they awarded it on the merit of the trilogy and the monumental achievement in cinema the movies achieved.
5. It deserved all the nominations it got, not all the wins. Best Song was WELL deserved and won, of all the noms, that is one of its strongest!
6. It's most undeserving win is probably best adapted screenplay, which i wanted to go to Mystic River
6. The film did have editing problems, that's one of my big issues with it.
7. The Two Towers Score was never nominated
8. It's visual effects were quite superior to any other film that year
9. the headlines came after the show, so your 'they wanted a big audience' has nothing to do with the LOTR sweep.
10. Every year has propaganda and last year was no different.... i'll be quite blunt, more than ever. I am not a racist whatsoever but it's hard to avoid the obvious.... 2001 oscar was African American propoganda, 2002 was Jewish propoganda, and 2003 was LOTR propaganda

If you complain so much about all these things, year after year, why do you continue to bother with it? Un-bias? You are one of the most biased posters I have ever come across if only for your anti-LOTR campaign.

I don't think it's a perfect movie. It has many flaws, many aspect I thought could be better. Yet, I love the films, not the best in my book, among top favorites, yes (#1 favorite, KILL BILL).... but for the last time quit your belly-aching. This thread was more of another bash at LOTR than to really pose a question up for discussion, cuz in every one of your posts you have found a way to slam it.

I tolerated it at BOM, but this is another year and freakin GET OVER IT!

As for those who are interested in the facade discussion offered, I have my opinions....

If there will be any propoganda this year, it will be for Martin Scorceses. However, I think The Aviator will have quite some merit of its own.
But the sheer lack of much of any front-runner throughout the year quite obviously proves this will be the year with the least or minimal propoganda. Most films in discussion for Oscars and just about all the performances seem to be really worthy. With Passion and F9/11 just about out of the race, it will be an interestingly clean race for Oscar, or so we might think just yet.

Well said, Raffiki. I was also very happy to see LOTR series honored. It's not just adored by a small group of fans. It was the most critically-acclaimed film of the year, if you go by the top 10 lists and awards it won among critic groups before the oscar. It doesn't deserve all 11 awards, but not winning picture or director would've been a travesty.

Also by all accounts, Million Dollar Baby and The Aviator are excellent films. Martin Scorsese won't win just because academy feels he has to win. Just look at Gangs of New York. Oscar does do a lot of makeups for previous snubs or mistakes, but that won't change.

I was referring to the effect that it would have in drawing the audience back for following years. duh...



My anti LOTR campaign. Is that what somebody does when they have ligitimate problems with the slopfest ROTK theatrical version? They are on an anti LOTR campaign? Ok, time to take your meds...lol



You really need to stop being so sensitive like this. I'll say what I want to say about ROTK anytime that I want to say it, and you'll just have to accept that everybody isn't going to like it. Now, if you would have gotten worked up about movies such as Hulk or Matrix Reloaded getting bashed all the time, it would be understandable to see you having moral issues here, but your issues are completely selfish.



You tolerated it? Are you even 18 yet , boy? You're to be seen but not heard, if you are going to throw childish tantums over the opinions of grownups. I suggest you GET OVER IT!!!



Now, that's all you had to say, and you could have skipped the ranting because your feelings got hurt over the truth. Geez, you would have been eaten alive if you were a Hulk or Matrix or Star Wars fan. :?

1. My feelings aren't hurt. I am not some child on these boards. I am just about 18, though I have no idea what that matters.

2. I think most people who read these can agree you are the more childish in this excuse for a debate.

3. I know everyone did not like LOTR. I am not stupid. I know there are some who hated it. You rarely have legitimate problems with it. I remember arguing every one of your lousy attacks on Two Towers, even though I felt that was the weakest film of the three (your arguments were just so foolish and only meant to bash).

4. Yes, you could say anything you want anytime you want but it gets rather irritating and I ask you to stop, especially since there is no grounds for such comments given the current situation of the Oscar forum here at KJ.

5. I don't hold anything against you Maverikk, I hope you know that. I just feel your judgements on this trilogy have been even hysterically uncalled for and unfair. Why I got set off this time is because there was no talk of anything of this sort for months on this forum and you only brought it up to take another pointless shot at LOTR. It doesn't anger me that someone expresses their opinions for the movie, good or bad, but your's are just rediculous. I plead you to just let it go. I apologize if I have in any way blasted your character, I did not mean to, only your judgement on this matter. That said, I must say I almost never take anything from the internet offensively, but I am disappointed with the manner you responded to my thread, though I can't say I was completely surprised.

I know you can go on forever about this. I've been there and I don't want to do it again, so this will be my last post on the subject. I hope we can move on to the discussion of Oscar this year.

Oh yeah, my TTT a cynic's view thread. The reason that I did that thread, was to show the 80 bashers of every other movie that wasn't LOTR, that there was no movie that couldn't be nitpicked, and I hit upon many legit points and flaws, but FOTR is a top 10 favorite of mine, and TTT is a top 20 favorite of mine, and I've said that many many times. I could have done one of those threads for ROTK, but I didn't, and the flaws could have been hammered home, and they would have been denied as always and called ridiculous too. That wouldn't have meant that they were.

With the EE DVD coming out today, ROTK's theatrical was obviously going to come up sooner or later by somebody who didn't like it or was let down by it. When EP III comes out, Phantom Menace will probably be bashed non stop, and that's 6 years past. It's just the nature of the passion that people who come to movie forums show. I didn't used to agree with it, but I adapted the if you can't beat 'em join 'em attitude, and it sure does make things easier, but it's not anything personal against you or anyone, just an opinion that you don't have to agree with one bit. :wink:

Meh...

I like Maverikk and he knows that, so this is not an attack or anything, but...

The fact is that he is a huge Star Wars fan and he is upset that LOTR has gotten way more attention my the critics and audiences than Star Wars ever has. Also Star Wars has never been awarded for Best Picture, one of LOTR movies has been. All of LOTR movies are to be found higher on IMDB's list that the SW movies. All of the LOTR movies are usually to be found higher on the lists of film critics and as a possible future film critic, I'll say that they'll be higher on my list as well.

The LOTR movies are more appreciated than the SW movies and it'll remain like that for many years to come basically because Lucas ruined the SW reputation somewhat with sub-par prequels.

ROTK did not deserve 11 oscars, but the LOTR Trilogy did. If Return of the Jedi was nearly as good as ANH or ESB, it probably would have been rewarded on the merit of the whole Trilogy as well. But it wasn't.

So, yeah, basically, I think it is an anti-LOTR thread

Too bad ROTK EE is ineligible

I love these threads Mavy.

Of course, I don't think ROTK's sweep was a sham. I think every 5 years or so, the AMPAS gets overwhelmed by the scope or feel of a certain nominated film and they end up winning nonstop (Titanic is a perfect example, Silence of the Lambs is another). It has nothing to do with being a sham. It's the nature of the AMPAS award process. If you win the big awards, the smaller awards are almost always thrown in for good measure. If they spread the love, it almost looks like they're being indecisive. The AMPAS loves the fact that they can give a film 7 or 8 Oscars and say, "without a doubt, this is the best film of year," and people will listen.

Last year was a rare one for me, I actually loved 4 of the 5 BP nominees. I would of been happy any other year for Lost in Translation, Seabiscuit, or Master and Commander to win.

ROTK won't be the last film to sweep.

Lecter, if you honestly believe that LOTR has gotten more attention than Star Wars ever did, your head is in the clouds. Of the two of us, I was the only one born when Star Wars came out, and no, LOTR didn't come close to getting that amount of attention.

IMDB also should never do anybody's thinking for them, but those are used as "facts" and critics are used as "facts" only by people who are insecure about their own beliefs, and look for other opinions on the internet or by critics who they consider unimportant unless they reach out to them in desperation.

If you really want me to, I'll go over the flaws that are undisputable in the theatrical ROTK ,point by point, and you or anybody else can point out ROTJ's flaws (not things you didn't like, flaws) and I'll bet you that ROTJ is a much tighter film. This really has nothing to do with Star Wars, though. This has to do with the slopfest called ROTK that was released at theaters and had been predetermined to sweep the awards with record setting numbers based on FOTR, and to some extent, TTT, no matter how good or bad it was, and you can't argue that it was deserving, without acknowledging that even New Line refused to acknowledge it as a best picture and record 11 award sweeping movie on the DVD that was released. They were obviously a little embarrassed that they got away with one.



Actually, that is too bad, because it might have been well deserving of what happened at the farce of an awards show if it was. I am really anxious to see it, and if I wasn't so sick, I'd go get it myself today. I might con somebody to get it for me, so I can watch it and take notes. I have a feeling when many of you see it, if you are men and women enough, you will put the denial behind you, and admit the things that I've been saying about the theatrical are true, and I'll bet you'll have no interest in ever watching the slopfest again. If it were such a great and deserving movie, that would hardly be the case.

well its sad to say it but as far as this board goes, barely anyone even brings up LOTR anymore unless someone feels the need to bash it. So when one is talking about getting "over" it, the intentions are correct but the wrong crowd is being asked to do it.

Which kinda proves my point about how Star Wars gets more attention, because it's not forgotten about like LOTR has been. The shelf life doesn't seem to be there.

With the release of the EE DVD today, it was bound to be a topic that resurfaced, so you guys that just want to hold hands and sing songs about the love you feel for the perfect cinematic achievement by Peter "the Precious" Jackson , will just have to deal with one more wave of LOTR discussion, and then it can drift off into obscurity. (something that Star Wars never did ) *that was just begging to be said*

What's REALLY sad, is that Star Wars has taken more shots at this board than LOTR. Again, why do people only get up on their soapboxes when it concerns LOTR, and ignore when it's done to other movies? If I saw this level of defense for ALL movies, which I don't, I would probably agree with what you just said, but I'm only seeing the same old getting bent out of shape over LOTR being bashed but not getting bent out of shape when it's other movies attitudes. No offense guys, but you have to spread the love around. I think I would choke to death if I ever saw this stance taken over the constant Lucas bashing that goes on every time a Star Wars thread comes up. Hell, a shot on the prequels was taken in this very thread by Lecter, and how funny it was that it wasn't considered something that people should "get over".

well, its time people get over it.

My opinions
1.ROTK desreved all the oscars it got
2.LOTR trilogy beats the shit out of star wars and is more popular than star wars world wide.