My ideas about the immigration bill going through the house is rather back and forth:

Do illegal immigrants deserve to be lumped into a category shared with murders, rapists, and others who commit actual crimes, even though most are law-abiding and work for a living like the rest of us? no

do they have a responsiblilty to atleast learn the language so that acessing essential resources would be easier. If I moved from where I'm now (Florida) to, lets say, Russia, is it right for me to demand doctors, teachers, etc. that speak English or should I just take the time and effort to learn Russian Fluently?

people who come here from other countries normally have to wait years to become citizens, so they have no choice to be illegals. maybe changing the process of obtaining citizen ship would help make it easier to become a citizen.

I dont blame them for coming here wanting a better life, but laws regarding how they are treated have to change.

Would you all please stop it with "demanding teachers in Spanish, blah blah blah" nonsense. The United States does not have an official language. English is the de facto official language, but not de jure. Since public schools and public healthcare are paid by for the taxpayers' dollars (as much of an abomination I believe that to be), taxpayers have the right to petition government to spend it in they way they want. Therefore, immigrants have as much of a right to demand Spanish/Russian/Mongolian/whatever language teachers as the English-speaking immigrants have the right to demand English speaking teachers or healthcare.

Don't like it? Fix the damn healthcare and education systems. Don't blame the immigrants for having the same rights as you do.

Yes, I believe it's called greed and selfishness.

How do I know that she was an illegal? The police determined that after the person produced bogus ID, never came to pick up the crappy car from the pound and DID NOT get back to her housecleaning duties at her workplace. She never showed up for the court date in February either.

My wife had to go through 4 months of physical therapy and she will never be the same again since she will always have to live with some pain. She had to put her career on hold. It has already cost me $500 in deductibles and untold amounts with my wife's career on hold probably for more than a year. Right, the impact is negligible.

No wonder the liberals look worse compared to a loser like Bush.




Look who is pulling stuff out of their ass. Senator John Kyl's report linked below states it amonts to $1.3B/year.

You must live under a rock. Better yet, you must have the liberal amnesia. Three state governors (AZ, CA and NM) declared emergencies due to the extremely high costs of illegal immigration. Two of them are Democrats.

LA Costs

New Mexico Emergency

Sen John Kyl




Obviously you have statistics to back that up, don't you?



How does one know who the bad guys are, since they are not part of the society. They live in a seperate universe. They live in Chinatowns, Hispanic enclaves, Vietnamese towns and other areas away from the eyes of the law.

it a political year not a damn thing's gonna get done. it'll be business as usual after november.

Of course, Mr. Idealistic.

PR also has a lot of problems with illegal immigrants(the vast majority being domenicans),so since this law would also take effect in PR then i support the tough immigration laws,85% of ricans want it,i know if pr was independent there would be such a law,to bad we are not.

Damn right. If you want to blame something on illegals, blame them for not paying their fair share of taxes. I dont like how minutemen using illegals as an excuse for taking away jobs from americans. The jobs that they take, barely any citizen would undertake.

That is mostly true, yeah. I don't like that argument as well.

Not only that, but any immigrant (legal or not) that takes jobs also creates jobs. Economics is not a zero-sum game.

Immigrants aren't taking anything from Americans. Companies like WalMart are giving jobs to them illegally. If WalMart paid a company to hire immigrants to do the job over Americans then there's probably a good reason for it. I'm sick and tired of lazy gluttonous Americans bitching about immigrants "taking" our jobs. It's not like they can literally come to America, ambush us in the parking lot and take our jobs.

Mondo brownie points to whoever can cite the quote.

I dont know why the fuck Americans , Brits or Europeans think they are somehow entitled to exclusive benefits of their home country simply because they were born there.

It's fucking dumb.

I apply this argument to patriotism.

But illegal immigration is a different thing. Why not entering the country in a legal way?

Because governments wont LET people? Like 0.0000somethingridiculous% of people actually get accepted for legal migration.

I went on the UKs immigration site and put in my details as a relatively middle class, generally stable person from Afghanistan. Rejected.

I tried again and pretended to be pretty rich and gay. Got in.

You have to be in a position where you'd almost certainly have no real desire to LEAVE your country for a lot of Europe to accept you in - ie wealthy, in a stable life and preferably married.

But what about the people who ACTUALLY need help? They aren't allowed in because they are cast off as being too poor [and therefore unlikely to pay taxes] and worthless to society.

Because it's UMPOSSIBLE most of the time.

UMPA LUMPA

It was a rhethorical question.

So that argument above legitimates illegal immigration, even though it is, as a matter of fact, illegal?

No, it points out the ridiculousness in a statement such as "Why not entering the country in a legal way?"

It was not a serious question. It was meant to lead to my statement that you just quoted. Obviously, each countries does not want to accept everyone from all over the world in its country. Fact is that some countries are better off than others. There are several, several reasons for that. It doesn't mean that those countries have to accept millions and millions from all over the world, even if they are coming from countries that are not so well off. The only way is usually if you find a job offer before you get into the country, but not everyone is qualified for everything, so logically some people will end up without such an official job offer and can't enter the country. I think this is still right, though. It comes down that some people have just had more luck in life. Others haven't. Nothing legitimates illegal immigration, though.

In my view, nothing legitimizes restrictions on migration. Why is it any of your concern where or how a person lives? Nobody's forcing you to give the immigrants shelter.

The argument about welfare benefits is ridiculous. If you're so concerned about then don't extend it to immigrants. Problem solved.

Well its not as easy as that. Since Im a californian and theres a huge hispanic population here, its my understanding from long time aquintances is that theres a long waiting period sometimes up to 5 years to get your visa, not to mention having to shell out 5 grand for one too. Its not as easy as that, why do you think most of the cubans in america are irch while the poor cubans reside in cuba for that matter

But thing is, the government here cannot let a person starve. It is in the law, one of the primary laws that everyone is equally worthy, thus will be supported no matter what. If someone refuses to work, you can cut the welfare partially sure, but the government can't overthrow the entire constituion. People can't be left alone with no job etc. no matter if it is their fault or not.

And just hypothetically speaking, I would not be thrilled about 10+ million immigrants from all over the world here, no matter where they are coming from. I am saying that hypothetically, incase all borders were open to anyone from anywhere to come.

I wish there was some good South Park pictures of goback
"They took our jerbs"

Well, there's your porblem right there. The government assumes the role of mommy, and you, the disgruntled child, get to say "no mommy, I don't want no more siblings". That kind of attitude is the reason Germany has 30% immigrant unemployment and why there were riots in France last year. The fish rots from the head, as they say in Russian.


Why not? You were one of those immigrants once; what makes you better than the rest?

One of my favorite episodes.