I don't think it was a stupid debate

Thank you. I thought the point was to back and forth debate something. Not one person state an opinion, another states their own, and the first person has to be wrong. No one is wrong, I don't think. It's just opinions!

Well, gee, if you start a thread off by implying that those of us who refuse to believe in the supernatural are doing so only to look "cool" then don't you think people will react? What if I said all Christians really didn't believe what they do and are doing so only because they are trying to fit in? Do you think I should just go unchallenged?

My post, though, was in direct response to rusty's insults, although I should have learned by now to ignore him.

I'm just saying that because of the history. Never did I intend it to mean that now-a-days people are that. And I guess I'm just that damn sexy to be ignored :wink:

How much of this is a charade anyway? Do you have to be Irish to "celebrate" St Patricks Day or Italian for Columbus Day who by the way did NOT discover America.

Did Jesus go forth and show us how to swipe the plastic and run up the bills at the malls? Is this homage to him? Is this how we show thou shalt not want, by loading the car with more crap than we can carry? Retail has blown this holiday up to its current skewed grand proportions, they cant wait to rip the Halloween crap down and completely skip Thanksgiving at most Malls, Nov 1 its Christmas. How much of this holiday is tradition and how much is just a vain attempt to get desperate people to buy anything.

For those of you who go; how many people make their yearly trip to church on Christmas and dread it and they sing the loudest in the choir for that whole hour.

So in answer to the question, an Aethiest could celebrate whatever they want to on "Christmas" Day, it is a free country and they have freedom of Religion (choice being none) but I think a true hardcore Aethiest couldnt be bothered.

There's one of my original points. If someone is a true atheist, they wouldn't even bother with the damn day to begin with. If someone is atheist for the sake of it, then they shouldn't be one.

Lets rephrase this central question in a way that says the same thing but makes it more clear what the issues are:

Why would a muslim celebrate Christmas? Why should a Jew or a Hindu celebrate Christmas?

The answer is that this is a majority Christian nation and people want to fit in and be a part of things, simple as that. I'm not Jewish but if I lived in Israel I'd probably celebrate at least some Jewish holidays and if I lived in a Muslim country the same.

MrX's position is similar to Margaret Thatcher who famously said There is no such thing as society: there are individual men and women, and there are families.

But she was wrong, there IS such a thing as society, and for better or worse the dominant social element in the US society, and the western world in general, is Protestant/Catholic.

So that becomes the overall feel of the country to an extent and if a Muslim or a Jewish man or anyone else wants to feel part of the country they may choose to just join in the celebrations like everyone else even if they are not technically Christians. And it's their choice to do so or not, even if they are atheists.

My view is similar to Mike V.'s, but I put it differently so hopefully between the two of us it's clearer.

Actually, MrX's position is not at all like Thatcher's. He, like you Archie, agrees that there is a society.

Only he wants the society to define Christmas as a holiday for Chirstians who follow some "rules", while you don't care.

Why wouldn't they bother with the day? That makes zero sense to me whatsoever.

Christmas, like every other holiday in this contry has been commercialized to the point where its religious meaning has become secondary. Christmas is about presents and Santa, Easter is abotu candy and the easter Bunny, etc.

What about celebrating Christmas makes an athiests not hardcore?

That's the best typo I've seen all week.

Mr.X, we ARE beginning to see a name change away from "Christmas." Cards and store sales have been using terms like "Celebrate the season" and "Happy holidays" and "holiday season" for years. I think it was adopted so that you could send the same card to everybody without Jews being reminded of Jesus, but I guess now the terms will serve just as well not to insult those who worship Allah, pagan gods, Kwanzaa principles, or no gods at all. After all, this "season" near the solstice tends to have a holiday for almost everyone -- maybe all religions are pagan at heart. At worst, it's an alternative phrase that people can use if they don't like the "Christ" moniker.

As for the agnostics and atheists, I guess that they can celebrate the "season" where Everybody Has The Day Off At The Same Time So They Can Visit And Be With Each Other. At the end of the day, isn't that really what it comes down to in these modern times?

On a related note, I really liked the Virgin Mobile commercial which has "Merry Christmahanukwanzaka to you" as its tagline.

Really great satire.

I'm Muslim

I do not practice Christmas.

I do not practice it

A) Because coming from a Muslim family and a different culture, we never celebrated it to begin with. Now that I live here, I still don't really. I do however take full advatange of any holidays and cheaper prices for things. I also will present close friends (or work people) with a present but do not expect anything in return.

after 10 pages of reply, I do not want to spark this up again .. however, I understand why X thought that the comparison between thanksgiving and christmas was absurd (assuming in the scenario that christmas is a christian thing.)

I know Christmas is beyond recognition, thanks to commercialization. I'm looking beyond that, though. It's stupid of me. So what? This brought forth over 180 replies, so where's the problem? The name Christmas will never change, but look at it this way, it brought a decent enough debate, I think, which was my purpose all along.

As for hardcore atheists, if you were in fact a true atheist, you won't celebrate Christmas. Where does it end? Kwanzaa? Chanukah?

Very good point, Erendis. Happy Holidays is used plenty more nowadays, with large companies, than Merry Christmas, since there are so many people who celebrate different holidays, and so forth.

One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods

There's the definition, according to Dictionary.com, for atheist. If an atheist does not believe in God, why should they call it Christmas? By that very definition, an atheist can celebrate the eight nights of Chanukah, as well as Kwanzaa, and any other holiday that they please. My point: where does it end? And, to back the point up, most atheists seem to come from Christian or Catholic roots, so they celebrate Christmas still. Hey, I am ALL for the holiday season with family and friends. EVERYONE deserves that. But calling it Christmas, for those who don't believe there is a God, or Christ? It seems to me if you're a true atheist, calling it Christmas would become a problem, now wouldn't it?

Thanks for your input, bABA. The original intent of this entire thread was a debate. I never once minded a different opinion, cause without one, there isn't a debate to begin with, is there?

I may have seemed forceful with disagreeing with other's ideas, but never EVER did I say someone's idea was ridiculous or stupid. However, anyone with the ability to read can look through this thread, and find several instances where some called my idea and opinion ridiculous and total crap, therefore insulting my ideas, my intelligence, and myself. How is that fair to me? I don't care if I asked if you think blueberries should be called purpleberries, since blueberries aren't really all that blue. It was a debate, so you debate the topic and tell your side of it. Poor sportsmanship is when you sit there and say "Bleh, this thread is total crap." Congratulations to those to took the opportunity to insult my intelligence, because I rarely get offended, but you somehow did it. Congrats indeed. I'll continue to debate with people who can at the very least respect my opinion, and respect the fact that I put effort into my posts. I won't debate with someone who can only come up with "This thread is stupid" to back their ideas up.

Edit: Before someone says I'm being a big baby about it now because they can't be bothered to read my entire post, I'll sum it up: other opinions = good. Other opinions with insults to me = not fair. Only insults to me = offended. Just so you know that I welcomed the opposing opinions, as long as insults to myself weren't used. That only came two or three times, though, but it came from those who I know are intelligent enough to know better.

Do you celebrate Halloween? It's a pagan holiday.

Do you live in a village (that's what Canada means after all)?

Are you a Greek Orthodox? Christos is the Greek word for Saviour

Do you consider December the 10th month of the year? That's how the Romans used the word

Do you worship the Sun on Sunday, Moon on Monday, Tiu on Tuesday, Odin on Wednesday, Thor on Thursday, Frija on Friday and Saturn on Saturday?

It's just a word. I, an atheist, say "thank God" all the time. That does not mean I literally thank God for something, it's simply an expression I use.

Why does Christmas bug you out THAT much, while you're OK with other misuses of words?

Thought you were a jew there krem. Pick will ya.

A secular jew ;-)

He's a fairweather jew

hehe

quit pulling a kerry will ya.

Hey, at least I KNOW what Treblinka is!

you and your foreign words. GO BACK TO FOREINIA!

Good god almighty. Yes, I said Good god almighty. I would have really loved your post, because I love all of your points for your opinion. But quit this assumption that I have a vendetta against atheists. Be who you want to be. It's a debate thread. How about I ask you what bugs you about my opinion so much? You seem to respond each time, why does my opinion bug you? Exactly, no sense, just like you saying that.

Now, aside from that, I'm really glad you brought all that up! I might be, and probably am, wrong. But I love hearing two sides to a story, and I'm really getting it. Quit making it personal, though. See my above post for that.

Is Treblinka related to Alex Trebek...a?