Ripper, we all know that Christmas is nothing about Jesus anymore. It's an endangered idea. But, if Christmas is going to eventually be all about family and celebration and nothing about Jesus, then shouldn't a name change be in order? I'm not saying it seriously, because it would never happen, but I'm saying that the true meaning of Christmas is long gone (since it's mostly the senior citizens who truly know why it's Christmas to start with), so it should be given a fresh start.

I whole-heartedly admit that this thread is more about changing the name Christmas than atheists celebrating the day. Clearing that up now.

Ok its official. I am avatar-napping, your avatar. Its mine :wink:

Not in latin america.

No, it's not. I enjoy your opinion, and everyone else's opinion, makeshift. I truly hope this doesn't kill any friendship we had, because that's ridiculous in every single possible way. If you think I'm being childish about it, then that's fine. I'm not. As for repeating the same idea over and over, I think that bringing up a new main idea is going to make others say "Oohp! There goes Mr. X changing the topic, since he was wrong the first time." I made many other key points, you know.

Go for it. I don't mind sharing avatars. BTW - Did you still need me to send it to you? Sorry I didin't get around to that last night.....

No I really don't think it needs a new name, and why do you think only senior citizens know why it started?

Depends on your defintion of how it started. most christians know only what they learned in church/sunday school/at home and that is not the whole story. It has a much larger context then that.

I am suer lots of Christians who are young know why its started, they just might care less. If the last election tells us anything, is that many in this country are deeply religious. Everyone I know understands the orgins of Christmas in the Christian sense, and many of them also know of its pagan roots, but that doesn't determine how they feel about the holiday.

I would think Christians would want to retain the name in the hopes of preserving some of the Christian roots of the holiday.

To reiterate:

As I once wrote way back on page one, long before these plagiarists could swipe my ideas :wink:




So maybe the REAL question should be:

Do you have to be a pagan to celebrate the solstice during the last week of the year?

LOL, yeah could you send it to me? Im not gonna use it at this forum but maybe another one

Ack, don't take stuff so literally. I just meant that the older people are more prone to celebrating the day as the birth of Jesus. Sorry, Ripperino! But thanks for all your points. As scary of a thought as it is, I'm really glad to get everyone's opinion on this.

Part of debating is taking things literally :wink:

good, that the point of a good debate.

I would actually encourage you to bring up a new reason behind your opinion. A debate is the sharing of several reasons why you feel the way you feel about a certain thing. If you are just repeating the same idea over and over again, it's nothing more than a shouting match.

As for this thread being the end of our relationship, I don't want that to happen, either. This not the kind of topic one should lose a friend over.

Exactly. Just as much as Thanksgiving has lost its meaning as well. Christmas is the commercially best time of the year for stores, shops, theatres etc.

Haha, yes I can.

In 1782, when Mozart was 26 years old, he composed two canons and wrote the lyrics for them himself. He named the canons "Leck mich im Arsch" (Lick my arse) and "Leck mir den Arsch fein recht schon sauber" (Lick my ever so clean arse). He never published them but after he died his wife, Constanze, sent them to a publisher but said that their texts would have to be altered because they were "unruly."

These canons were of course incredibly vulgar, especially for that time. Here is a part of them:

"Leck mire den Arsch recht schon, fein sauber lecke ihn, fein sauber lecke, leck mire den Arsch. Das ist ein fettigs Begehren, nur gut mit Butter geschmiert, den das Lecken der Braten mein tagliches Thun. Drei lecken mehr als Zweie, nur her, machet die Prob' und leckt, leckt, leckt. Jeder leckt sein Arsch für sich".

Maybe you can translate, Arthur?

In another canon, Mozart says good night with an insult in five languages, and then ends by saying "Sleep tight, and stick your ass in your mouth".

Because of some reason, these canons are almost never played and they have only once been recorded on a CD to my knowledge, but that CD is long unavailable.

When the complete collection of Mozart (it was well over a hundred of CDs) was released a couple of years ago, the only pieces by him that were left out were the aforementioned canons. Hmm, I wonder why?

There have been theories that Mozart had tourettes disease, it's a disease that can make you swear constantly and get moments of uncontroled immatureness. It's just a theory though.

Have you seen the movie Amadeus? While that movie is mostly fictional, the way Mozart's character is portrayed may have had some basis in reality.

You know what they say, aren't all geniuses mad?

Thank you, Makeshift. Thank god you said that. I've been kind of stressing over the fact that I can't debate properly, and I thought I was going to piss off a lot of people. But, you're right, losing a friend over such a topic would be, well, ridiculous. :wink:

I hope this debate cools down. I don't like to see two such great posters fighting over a topic that is, well, rather trivial.

WAR! WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING!!!

Oh, well see, now I have to hurt you.

:wink:

I'll just make this deliberate spam posting here.

*token spam posting*

And why is that? :wink:

I hate spam. That stuff tastes awful. Oh crap, I'm going so off-topic now, that Rusty is even shaking his head at me.

Cause you're so darn sexy, it kills me.

Yes, its my cross I have to bear

*sigh

Bleh. This thread is total crap.

Mr X, it's good though that you don't want to ban atheists from celebrating christmas anymore, like you did back on page 1. Now you just want to ban them from using the name "christmas". Hopefully you'll change your mind about that too after another 4-5 pages.

It's the only reason I am considering inviting you to the party. :wink: