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Festival Thread: Indian Film Festival
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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 Festival Thread: Indian Film Festival
Well, I do not know how this works but jb007 and I will be your hosts.
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Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:40 am |
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jb007
Veteran
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:47 pm Posts: 3917 Location: Las Vegas
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The movie we would like you to consider is called Hum Aapke Hai Koun. This movie is a true musical with 14 songs. This was the biggest bollywood hit of the nineties. It is littered with light hearted comedic moments and a fine love story.
It is available on Netflix.
_________________ Dr. RajKumar 4/24/1929 - 4/12/2006 The Greatest Actor Ever. Thanks for The Best Cinematic Memories of My Life.
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Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:47 am |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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The movie will also run most of you through the various south asian (but more indian specific) rituals that are performed during the course of a wedding.
Hum Aapke Hain Kaun.
English Translation: Who Am I of Yours
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Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:51 am |
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dolcevita
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm Posts: 16061 Location: The Damage Control Table
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jb007 wrote: The movie we would like you to consider is called Hum Aapke Hai Koun. This movie is a true musical with 14 songs. This was the biggest bollywood hit of the nineties. It is littered with light hearted comedic moments and a fine love story.
It is available on Netflix.
So where was it made? I've heard you reference before the split between the northern and southern Indian film industries, and I'm starting to get a sense the north is very conservative. I haven't seen much, which is why I'm looking for recs, but everything I've seen to this point has been pretty, how to put it, traditional? I know Bollywood is actually the biggest film industry in the world correct? Something like 1300 movies a year to Hollywood's 700. That means quite a less heavy emphasis on direction, production, and writing time, and a much bogger emphasis on turnover and easily coded reception. I was hoping there was an alternative in South India film, but know nothing about it, its past, or its current philosophy. In fact, I didn't even know it existed until you mentioned it. I'd find it hard for a second system to operate when the alpha studios whip out that high a number per year. Is it very Independent and small budget?
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Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:05 pm |
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dolcevita
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm Posts: 16061 Location: The Damage Control Table
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An interesting article i found on the Times about what I had mentioned above. About some of the values I've noticed. Granted, I've had very limited exposure to film from the region, which is kind of why I plan to really use this opportunity to get some new insight.
NYTimes wrote: HALFWAY through ''Aitraaz'' (''Objection''), a Bollywood take on Barry Levinson's ''Disclosure,'' Sonia grabs hold of Raj. Once upon a time, they were lovers. But when Sonia, an ambitious model, opted for an abortion instead of child and marriage, Raj left her. Now she is his boss. Sonia starts to undress him, whispering, ''Show me you are an animal.'' When he refuses and walks away, she screams: ''I'm not asking you to leave your wife. I just want a physical relationship. If I don't have an objection, why should you?''
The actress Priyanka Chopra had a difficult time playing this scene. A former Miss World, Ms. Chopra was a sophisticated, globally feted celebrity and she had prepared for her role by studying the calculated seductiveness of Sharon Stone in ''Basic Instinct.'' But on the day that scene was shot, Ms. Chopra broke down and cried. The directors, brothers who go by the hyphenate Abbas-Mustan, had to spend a few hours convincing her that she was only playing a character. Filming didn't start until late afternoon.
Ms. Chopra wasn't just being dramatic. She is a Bollywood actress, and as such, trained to play the role of a virginal glam-doll, not a sexual aggressor. By tradition, a Bollywood heroine is a one-dimensional creation who may wear eye-popping bustiers or writhe passionately during a song in the rain. But she is unfailingly virtuous. Whether girlfriend, wife or mother, she is the repository of Indian moral values. In the ancient epic ''Ramayana,'' the hero Lakshman draws a furrow in the earth, the Line of Lakshman, which represents the limits of proper feminine behavior, and requests that his sister-in-law Sita not step outside it. As if heeding his exhortation, Bollywood heroines have rarely stepped out of line, even for a kiss.
But a decade-long cultural churning has overturned stereotypes in India. In 1991, the threat of fiscal collapse forced the government to introduce wide-ranging economic reforms and allow multinational corporations to operate in India. The same year, satellite television arrived. Today, consumerism, globalization, the proliferation of semiclad bodies in print and television, and the emergence of a more worldly audience have redefined the boundaries of what is permissible. Sex has been pulled out of the closet and actors have become more willing to experiment with their images. The latest Bollywood heroines seem to be taking a page out of Mae West's book: when they are good, they are very good, but when they are bad, they're better.
Mallika Sherawat, 24, a statuesque actress, needed little convincing to step out of the stereotype. Ms. Sherawat made her leading-lady debut in 2003 with ''Khwahish'' (''Desire''), which grabbed headlines for its 17 kisses. Her follow-up was even steamier. ''Murder,'' released last year, a rehash of Adrian Lyne's ''Unfaithful,'' had her playing a lonely housewife in Bangkok who has a passionate affair with an ex-boyfriend. Ms. Sherawat pushed the edge of the sexual envelope as far as the Indian Censor Board would allow. The lovemaking scenes featured bare backs, cleavage and passionate kissing.
Bolder still was the idea that a respectable upper-middle-class woman could have sexual desires and cheat on her husband -- and get away with it. ''Murder'' made back its investment, approximately $750,000, several times over. Ashish Rajadhyaksha, a senior fellow at the Bangalore-based Center for the Study of Culture and Society, said the film established Ms. Sherawat as an Indian ''postfeminist icon.'' The self-anointed ''kissing queen of India'' now has bigger ambitions. She plays an Indian princess in a coming Hong Kong movie, ''The Myth,'' starring Jackie Chan. After making a splash on Mr. Chan's arm at the Cannes Film Festival, she is, she says, negotiating with Creative Artists Agency for representation.
Ms. Sherawat's journey from a traditional small-town nobody to an international sex symbol is a modern-day fairy tale that has already had an impact. (For Ms. Sherawat, it also has a downside: She says her father refuses to speak her.) Film studios here in Mumbai are overrun with starlets fiercely trading on their sexuality, and even established actresses are now taking chances. In ''Fida'' (''Crazy''), released last year, Kareena Kapoor played a scheming hedonist who beguiles her besotted lover into robbing a bank for her. Ms. Kapoor, a fourth-generation star, is Bollywood aristocracy. Her great-grandfather Prithviraj Kapoor was a leading man in the 1940's, and her grandfather (Raj Kapoor), parents, uncles and sister are famous actors. There were audible gasps from audiences when her true character was revealed with a dramatic flourish in ''Fida'': she steps out of the shower with a man who is not her lover.
Heroines aren't just discovering sex, they are positively reveling in bad behavior. In a forthcoming, still-untitled film, Sushmita Sen, a former Miss Universe, plays a protagonist who ''enjoys being negative,'' she said. ''She cheats, lies, sleeps with men, even kills them and gets away with it all. I want to give this bad woman a tremendous conviction. You have to fear her.''
Aishwarya Rai also hopes to induce fear. Her ethereal good looks have been immortalized in wax at Madame Tussauds in London. In the July issue of the British magazine Harpers & Queen she is listed as the ninth most beautiful woman in the world. But in ''Dhoom 2'' (''Cacophony 2'') to be shot later this year, she is to play a vamp. Ms. Rai won't comment on how badly her character will behave. ''In this film, you can't define heroes and villains, but it's a character I've never played before,'' she said. ''Why get pigeonholed?''
The good-girl heroine isn't the only standard Bollywood type to be transformed. The vamp, Hindi cinema's designated bad girl, was traditionally just as important a part of the typology. She did things that upright Indian girls weren't supposed to do -- drink, smoke and have sex -- and was usually seen on the villain's arm in garish dens or smoke-filled bars, wearing feather boas and revealing outfits. But in the 70's, a slew of more Westernized actresses appropriated the vamp's glamour for heroines by adopting more flashy clothes and more sexually assertive body language. By the 80's the vamp had disappeared.
A decade later, globalization further scrambled neat moral divisions. ''The heroine,'' says Gyan Prakash, director of the Shelby Cullom Davis Center for Historical Studies at Princeton University, ''now dressed by a fashion designer and placed in a consumerist mise en scene, was liberated. She could appear in a club and wear revealing clothes without being coded.''
But though she was sexy, she wasn't necessarily having sex. In the last five years, however, the heroine has come full circle and outvamped the vamp. Even the good-girl heroines are becoming more complex. One of the year's biggest is ''Bunty aur Bubli,'' a sanitized ''Bonnie and Clyde'' about two small-town con artists who go on a looting spree across India. The woman, Bubli, unapologetically uses her sexuality to cheat people. But she is not evil or predatory; she's just looking for a good time. Her disdain for the housewife role she is forced to play is comic: ''If I have to make mango pickle one more time, I'll die,'' she tells the police officer who arrests the couple.
Interpreting the Hindi cinema heroine's latest avatar as a feminist, however, may be stretching the truth a bit. Earlier films like ''Hunterwali'' (''The Woman With a Whip,'' 1935) and ''Amar Jyoti'' (''Eternal Flame,'' 1936) featured more powerful female images -- a whip-wielding, crime-fighting action heroine, and a female pirate who keeps men in captivity.
The scriptwriter Bhavani Iyer dismisses present-day heroines as ''naive attempts to portray reality,'' but admits that they are preferable to the deified women in earlier films.
They are, in any case, just a beginning. At present, Lakshman's line may be bent out of shape, but it is still visible. The box office occasionally applauds the sexual daring of a Mallika Sherawat, but as the director Karan Johar, who has made several wholesome, family-centered blockbusters, put it, ''In Bollywood, the No. 1 position will always be reserved for the girl you can take home to Mom.''
That's why most actresses are hedging their bets. Ms. Chopra got rave reviews and awards in ''Aitraaz,'' but she has followed up with good-girl acts. ''I'm not sure I can play such a sexually aggressive character again,'' she says. ''My family and friends were very shocked.''
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Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:25 pm |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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Galia. I'm pretty sure the movie is not South Indian, a term that is usually used for films made in Tamil, Telegu and other regional dialects.
Thats a fun article. I dont know about the whole negative and sexual aggressor thing but the only thing me, my family and my friends have noticed is the complete objectification of women in bollywood over the last few years. Dresses, dances and moves that add nothing but to show more of the women and get more people into the packed cinemas.
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Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:29 am |
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jb007
Veteran
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:47 pm Posts: 3917 Location: Las Vegas
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dolce: bABA is correct about the shameless bollywood starlets and the industry as a whole.
Hum Aapke Hai Koun is a bollywood movie but mostly in the 60's and 70's style (i.e. more conservative. No starlets in white clothes getting wet in the rain). South Indian movies are geared towards better stories, actors than the glitzy but hollow bollywood.
_________________ Dr. RajKumar 4/24/1929 - 4/12/2006 The Greatest Actor Ever. Thanks for The Best Cinematic Memories of My Life.
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Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:46 pm |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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if indian movies were readily available, i'd suggest a few more to watch.
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Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:26 pm |
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jb007
Veteran
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:47 pm Posts: 3917 Location: Las Vegas
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Sholay (1975)
Muqaddar Ka Sikandar (1978)
Sharaabhi (1984)
_________________ Dr. RajKumar 4/24/1929 - 4/12/2006 The Greatest Actor Ever. Thanks for The Best Cinematic Memories of My Life.
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Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:46 pm |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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jb007 wrote: Sholay (1975) Muqaddar Ka Sikandar (1978) Sharaabhi (1984)
Amongst the newer ones : Dil Chaata Hai
Amongst the older ones ... my favorite indian movie ever: Pakeezah
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Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:51 pm |
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dolcevita
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm Posts: 16061 Location: The Damage Control Table
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Ok. I went to the store last night and there are no dvd's, only video's. I'll rent one and watch in the medialab. But here's what I noticed in the store's "Indian Film" section. Deepa Mehta and Satyajit Ray. Lots of movies by them, and then the movie Bandit Queen. That's about it. :-( Can you guys give me some background to the directors, or point me in the direction of whose work of the two you find more engaging, why? I think Ray, you mentioned was Bangladeshi, so where's Mehta from? Does it make much of a difference as far as their cultural and film reference points? Sorry, to ask so much, but this is one area I know next to nothing about.
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Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:47 am |
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zingy
College Boy Z
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:40 pm Posts: 36662
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dolce, if you're having trouble with finding some of these movies, they have lots of 'em at Netflix. Just sign up for the free trial or something and get to renting, heh.
I think it offers a 2-week free trial, but PM me and I might be able to provide a link to get you one full month.
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Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:49 am |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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dolcevita wrote: Ok. I went to the store last night and there are no dvd's, only video's. I'll rent one and watch in the medialab. But here's what I noticed in the store's "Indian Film" section. Deepa Mehta and Satyajit Ray. Lots of movies by them, and then the movie Bandit Queen. That's about it. :-( Can you guys give me some background to the directors, or point me in the direction of whose work of the two you find more engaging, why? I think Ray, you mentioned was Bangladeshi, so where's Mehta from? Does it make much of a difference as far as their cultural and film reference points? Sorry, to ask so much, but this is one area I know next to nothing about.
can't recall the directors but bandit queen is the true story of Phoolan Devi, a very famous woman in Indian history from the 80s and the 90s. jb can correct me but she was basically an ordinary girl who was raped and a whole of other shit happened to her and those around her. As revenge, she became what the title implies, a bandit and rose up in the ranks till she became quite prominent. She served time and in the late 90s, if i'm not mistaken, even ran for office for which she got elected. She was murdered not too long ago. Movie opened amidst controversy due to the excessive amount of sexual scenes including rape scenes in the movie
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Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:32 pm |
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jb007
Veteran
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:47 pm Posts: 3917 Location: Las Vegas
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dolce: Satyajit Ray is the famous director whose movies are loved by critics all over (Including Ebert). He directed the well known Apu trilogy also.
It is better if you sign up for Netflix as Zing mentioned.
@bABA: Your description of Bandit Queen the movie and her real life is correct.
_________________ Dr. RajKumar 4/24/1929 - 4/12/2006 The Greatest Actor Ever. Thanks for The Best Cinematic Memories of My Life.
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Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:53 pm |
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dolcevita
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm Posts: 16061 Location: The Damage Control Table
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Hey, have either of you heard of Shakti: The Power? I saw it today and it looks like it could be interesting. It also has Ashwarya Rai in it, and I'm trying to see her background to figure out why Chdra would pick her to do the brit/bollywood crossover Bride & Prejudice. She's about to make an international name for herself, and I was wondering how she managed to distinguish herself from the millions of other female Bollywood stars. Film selection more prgressive? Shakti was about a couple from L.A. that returns to a violent part of North India to visit the groom's family.
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Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:01 pm |
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dolcevita
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm Posts: 16061 Location: The Damage Control Table
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jb007 wrote: The movie we would like you to consider is called Hum Aapke Hai Koun. This movie is a true musical with 14 songs. This was the biggest bollywood hit of the nineties. It is littered with light hearted comedic moments and a fine love story.
It is available on Netflix.
Got it! Will be watching it tonight if I can.
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Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:55 pm |
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dolcevita
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm Posts: 16061 Location: The Damage Control Table
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Do the groom's shoes really get stolen? List the other ones. I tried to keep an eye out for them, but couldn't tell which performances were strictly marriage related or which were for the movie.
Hum Aapke Hai Koun
Well, I had mixed feelings going into this, so i tried to seperate technical and personal responses.
Technically, I found it alright. It had alot more dialogue than I expected, and enough playful banter including an ongoing "inside joke" about caughing, and cricket. Oh yes, there was cricket. I've decided there are two things in all Bollywood movies. Marriage, and cricket. Am I right?
I liked Rita, the one that wasn't all that sharp a cricket player and a terrible chef, but had enough heart, was friendly, and was kind of a tomboy.
bABA, Prem reminds me of you. Comepletely unafraid to make a complete fool of himself. :-) And his back-n-forth was well handled.
I wondered why he and Nisha just didn't come out and say they liked eachother for so long? It wasn't West Side Story where they had fueding families or something (jb, bAB that dance was a reference to west Side Story wasn't it?). They take so long getting around to announcing it once its firmly established they like eachother.
It was ok until Pooja died. WTF????? On the stairs? That came out of nowhere. Is that common? Up until that point it was a fairly light comedy, almost like Shakespeare comedies where one realizes everyone is going to end up married, and its all about the banter on the way. Mind you, sans much of any other commentary.
Around that death the movie goes into overkill. Dealing with the servant being a "borther" the marriage of a younger daughter to the same husband to replace her sister, and just lots of discussions I guess I wouldn't expect in a movie that had rollerskates, jeans, and hoop earings. I didn't mind the kind of insertion of their servant as being close to the family and being treated with respect, even though there was really no foundation for it and its just randomly brought up. I also didn't mind that there was some discussion of education, good women having BA's etc. Nisha even says she's studying computers, which seems odd since not once is she pictured near one, going to class, or really anything else, and can take off months at a time. Meanwhile all the guys were running businesses, and referring back to universtiy and their teachings. Nisha and Pooja's mother went to university too. Even though there's really no trappings of it now, I'm glad they at least had those couple references to it.
The marriage replacement really didn't sit well with me. Both as a vehicle to propel the storyline and just, uh, personally/ethically. It seemed like the director needed to find a reason for Prem and Nisha's love to be denied and so had to force it, since they didn't actually have anything holding them back except for their own reserve. I thought that was alright, and could have just remained with two people feeling they were young, having other things going on in their lives, or just taking a long time to realize they love eachother. But this just seemed like "Quick...how do we thwart their love?"  Plus just replacing a wife with her younger sister? I dunno. Is that a common practice?
The thing is, I really see this as cute and campy (until it got serious for the last half hour). I haven't really been inundated by this studio system, so to me its like "ohhh song and bance, nice make-up." I did think the shoes sealing scene was particularly well done, and my favorite part of the movie. But I also noticed even Rita was on her way to getting hitched by the end, and that there's this real performance of independance in female figures that is pretty shallow. A couple peppy lines and a finger wave on the way to their new matrimonial position.
What was up with all the candy and chocolate??? Made me peckish.  Also made me think the director was trying to coach the cross over into sexual maturity from little girl with lollipop to big woman with...
Are little choclate bars in alot of movies? Product placement? Or is it something this Barjatya concocted?
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Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:36 pm |
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jb007
Veteran
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:47 pm Posts: 3917 Location: Las Vegas
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Nice review, dolce.
I have a confession to make. The last Bollywood movie I watched was in 1988 called Tezaab, which BTW was very good. 
_________________ Dr. RajKumar 4/24/1929 - 4/12/2006 The Greatest Actor Ever. Thanks for The Best Cinematic Memories of My Life.
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Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:58 pm |
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dolcevita
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm Posts: 16061 Location: The Damage Control Table
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jb007 wrote: Nice review, dolce. I have a confession to make. The last Bollywood movie I watched was in 1988 called Tezaab, which BTW was very good. 
Um, do they make an non-dancing Bollywood flicks?
I want to get a wider understanding of the movies that come out of there, so i said to myself before the festival is over, I must watch a Satyajit Ray movie. If he really distinguished himself head and shoulders above others. Do you know why? I said, in my physical anti-response to marriage movies, I really may check out Bandit Queen too. I doubt that one has dancing. But maybe it'll be like Dancer in the Dark and find some way to slip in songs. :-)
If your memory serves you well, admit the bABA-Prem similarities. ;-) Totally willing to be the class clown, but all of a sudden really serious too.
So, I don't know if you remeber the wedding traditions shown, but I'm assuming the shoes is a big deal. There's also a scene where the bride and groom are putting their hands in this vat of some liquid with flowers. Is that important to the procession?
Oh yes, and really, does cricket some up in every movie from India? I've seen this, and goodness Lagaan was just about one big cricket game!
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Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:03 pm |
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jb007
Veteran
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:47 pm Posts: 3917 Location: Las Vegas
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dolce, Indians and Pakistanis love cricket and it shows up in the movies.
Now I will have to watch this movie for bABA-Prem comparisions.
Watch Sholay which is a take on The Magnificient Seven and Sharaabhi a superior version of Arthur.
_________________ Dr. RajKumar 4/24/1929 - 4/12/2006 The Greatest Actor Ever. Thanks for The Best Cinematic Memories of My Life.
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Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:19 pm |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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The last time i saw this was 3 years ago when i was trying to woo my woman so i wasn't really interested in the movie. I saw the movie properly about 7 years ago. I'll answer the best i can.
dolcevita wrote: Do the groom's shoes really get stolen? List the other ones. I tried to keep an eye out for them, but couldn't tell which performances were strictly marriage related or which were for the movie. This is quite possibly my favoritest tradition during the mehndi (Heena) which takes place usually a day or 2 before the wedding. We (Pakistanis) have it too. We've had it in many weddings but we might skip it in mine because Rahima's family doesn't know about it and its the girl's side that does this. There are many traditions like this where the girls side tries to get money out of the groom. Another one we have is all the girls holding on to the guy's wedding ring finger and not letting go. Really, they are just fun games. even if the groom's family manages to find the shoe or break free from the girls' grasp, they still pay up.
funny tradition ... after the marriage is done and the bride and groom are leaving the reception area to go do the nasty, the groom's family (usually the kids) will block the way to the exit (or hotel room) till you pay them up, essentially turning this momentous occasion into a "pay for sex" occasion. hehe ..Hum Aapke Hai Koun Well, I had mixed feelings going into this, so i tried to seperate technical and personal responses. Technically, I found it alright. It had alot more dialogue than I expected, and enough playful banter including an ongoing "inside joke" about caughing, and cricket. Oh yes, there was cricket. I've decided there are two things in all Bollywood movies. Marriage, and cricket. Am I right? This film is dialogue intensive. Most films do not actually center around cricket per say. may be a reference here and there but nothing more. Keep in mind though that this was a wedding based movie and such, implies that an entire family gets together along with family friends (which could number in the high double digits or low triple digits). Cricket would be an obvious passtime. Most indian movies do not revolve around marriage itself but everything around a marriage .. like falling in love or complications arising due to marriage. Hum Aapke hain kaun was probably the one pure film that sold itself on the basis that it was inundated with wedding rituals and what not.I liked Rita, the one that wasn't all that sharp a cricket player and a terrible chef, but had enough heart, was friendly, and was kind of a tomboy. I do not remember Rita or any of the character names. I will assume Prem is Salman Khan (the main dude) and Nisha is Madhuri Dixit. I know them better by their real names. bABA, Prem reminds me of you. Comepletely unafraid to make a complete fool of himself. :-) And his back-n-forth was well handled. hA! Prem sounds like Salman Khan, once rated as the 7th most desired man in the world .. yup .. world. some magazine poll or some shit .. my sister and cousins love him.
Madhuri was considered a goddess. many still do. i never liked her but in the late 80s and early 90s, she took the mantle of the most desired actress in bollywood, something previously held by Sri Devi i think. I wondered why he and Nisha just didn't come out and say they liked eachother for so long? It wasn't West Side Story where they had fueding families or something (jb, bAB that dance was a reference to west Side Story wasn't it?). They take so long getting around to announcing it once its firmly established they like eachother. I dont remember the west side story stuff. and i haven't seen this in a long time. nisha was the sister of the bride to be right? and prem was the brother of the groom to be? If thats the case, it makes sense. The idea of 2 brothers getting married to 2 sisters is sort of odd, espicially if the latter one is more of a love marriage without any family involvement. Its funny cause my mom's brother and 1 sister are married to another brother and sister (both hetero hehe) but still, they frowned upon my cousin going out with the brother of the girl getting married to another cousin of mine. did that sound complicated?? if it did, then you can understand why an entire family would have issues and thus they decided not to say anything before. families and proper family ties are important. in our culture, there is a name for every type of relationship you have with someone. my mom's sister is called khala. my dad's sister is called phuppo. my cousin's phuppo is now also her khala. i can see why it could be disapproved. but yes, i think that was one of the smaller taboos the film was trying to point out.It was ok until Pooja died. WTF????? On the stairs? That came out of nowhere. Is that common? Up until that point it was a fairly light comedy, almost like Shakespeare comedies where one realizes everyone is going to end up married, and its all about the banter on the way. Mind you, sans much of any other commentary. Pooja's death came as a shock to all of us. Because it was just downright weird. it just freaking happened. I always hated the film for that very reason. So no, someone just falling down for no reason to change the entire story is not common. I think the director wanted her to die accidently to continue with the second part of the story but it was terrible execution.Around that death the movie goes into overkill. Dealing with the servant being a "borther" the marriage of a younger daughter to the same husband to replace her sister, and just lots of discussions I guess I wouldn't expect in a movie that had rollerskates, jeans, and hoop earings. I didn't mind the kind of insertion of their servant as being close to the family and being treated with respect, even though there was really no foundation for it and its just randomly brought up. I also didn't mind that there was some discussion of education, good women having BA's etc. Nisha even says she's studying computers, which seems odd since not once is she pictured near one, going to class, or really anything else, and can take off months at a time. Meanwhile all the guys were running businesses, and referring back to universtiy and their teachings. Nisha and Pooja's mother went to university too. Even though there's really no trappings of it now, I'm glad they at least had those couple references to it. Hehe .. yes ... pretty standard. the girl is learning computers is such a cliche, its not even funny. and you'll never see one showing any sign of backing that claim up. I dont know about this servant thing ... but in many families, many that are joint families, you often hear of that one servant who basically grew up with everyone. this person is usually part of the family and sometimes treated with more respect than one who is own blood. we still have one of them who we stay in contact with in pakistan even though my mom's entire family is now in north america. its usually a given. but really, i dont remember this part of the film at all.The marriage replacement really didn't sit well with me. Both as a vehicle to propel the storyline and just, uh, personally/ethically. It seemed like the director needed to find a reason for Prem and Nisha's love to be denied and so had to force it, since they didn't actually have anything holding them back except for their own reserve. I thought that was alright, and could have just remained with two people feeling they were young, having other things going on in their lives, or just taking a long time to realize they love eachother. But this just seemed like "Quick...how do we thwart their love?"  Plus just replacing a wife with her younger sister? I dunno. Is that a common practice? I dont think it was forced at all .. i think the director's purpose from the beginning WAS to have this story. To be honest, i've never ever seen this happen but i would never be surprised if it did. prem and nisha did have something holding them back and that was their sibling's previous marriage. its tough to understand but i'd never want to marry into the family that my brother has married into. i dont think my family would be too keen on it either. its just something i've seen discouraged. back to the whole "complicating relations" and such. I also don't think it took them a long time to realize they were in love. it took them a long time to realize that the love they have cannot be sacrificed. the 2 characters could have turned their back on their feelings and moved on and that was what they were probably hoping to do. but they couldn't.The thing is, I really see this as cute and campy (until it got serious for the last half hour). I haven't really been inundated by this studio system, so to me its like "ohhh song and bance, nice make-up." I did think the shoes sealing scene was particularly well done, and my favorite part of the movie. But I also noticed even Rita was on her way to getting hitched by the end, and that there's this real performance of independance in female figures that is pretty shallow. A couple peppy lines and a finger wave on the way to their new matrimonial position. hahaWhat was up with all the candy and chocolate??? Made me peckish.  Also made me think the director was trying to coach the cross over into sexual maturity from little girl with lollipop to big woman with... dont remember. its an auspicious occasion and thus must be celebrated with something sweet?Are little choclate bars in alot of movies? Product placement? Or is it something this Barjatya concocted?
great review though. it seems you had a good bollywood experience. lagaan was a great film because it concentrated on an older time and things that might have been completely new to you, thus you were probably more accepting of it. this one gave you trouble. my suggestion would be to start with something that you may have a better time relating to. Though not on my top ten list "Dilwale Dulhania le jaaen Ge" is probably one of the best movies to come out in recent times. You should definetely see it. It stars Shahrukh Khan and Kajol, a woman i was head over heels over. it starts of in england about a very urban boy who lives with a dad who'll do anything for him .. good at heart but otherwise, wasting his life away. then there is the conservative dad (from east is east) whose living in england as well but bringing up his daughters in a very conservative way. girl boy fall in love and daddy gets really mad. the film on the whole is great. its funny, well made and a million times better than hum aapke hain kaun.
Here is the imdb page for it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112870/
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Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:39 pm |
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