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 Back-n-Forth Round 2: Donnie Darko! 
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Post Back-n-Forth Round 2: Donnie Darko!
Film Summary (stolen from IMDB :P)
Middlesex student, Donnie Darko, has problems. His therapist thinks he has some sort of schizophrenia, whereas Donnie knows he's having visions. His visions depict a demonic bunny rabbit named Frank. Frank tells Donnie that the world will end in 28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds. It indeed turns out it will be that long until the earth ends and the tangent universe collapses. But before that happens, he must cope with the school bully, the gym teacher, the principal, his parents, his friend, and Grandma Death.

Rod:
In a few words, this is an absolutely astonishing film, and one of my personal favorites in recent years. Like many other great films it achieves that level not often reached by films because it is one that can work on so many different levels. As a thriller, romance, just a teen movie (though just should never be used when describing this movie), feeling like a misfit, it's all done wonderfully. The cast is superb, Jake Gyllenhall has tough material to work with and he manges to pull off that "confused teen" character wonderfully. It's is not an easy movie to "understand" especially the first time around but like Muholland Dr. intead of casuing frustration it makes you want to see it again, seee what you can pick up on after multiple viewings, and if you do mange to find some kind of message or meaning behind it chances are you'll find someone who has a completely different idea of what the film is from you. And that is another things that makes it work so well, the are endless ways of looking at it. You can, in the end disagree with the meaning of the film but it is hard to deny it is one of the boldest, most original films in recent memory.

Big Thumbs Up.

Dr. Lecter:

Donnie Darko is an exceptional and ambitious movie that showcases that if you have a vision and know how to play your cards right, you can hit the jackpot with your debut movie. In Richard Kelly's (Donnie Darko's director) case the jackpot was not the money as the movie turned out to be a financial flop during its theatrical release. However, this movie elevated him to a cul status that many directors dream their whole life of. Only a very few directors could deliver an absolute masterpiece with their first film. Tarantino's name comes to my mind. Richard Kelley enjoys the privilege of having made it. Donnie Darko is a masterpiece that will be remembered for many years to come.

Donnie Darko works on is a movie that works on all levels and the sheer number of layers it has to it is astonishing. It is hard to attribute Donnie Darko to a certain genre. Obviously, at the first sight, Donnie Darko is a mysterious science-fiction flick, but there is much more to it than meets the eye. The movie, indeed, does bring up some of the most interesting theories of time travel that are to be witnessed in movies. It is impossible to capute all of the ideas hidden in this movie at the first viewing. However, Donnie Darko is not just a sci-fi flick. By far not. The movie captures the teenage angst more than any other movie on that topic that I know. Out of all characters I have ever seen on-screen, Donnie Darko is the one I could identify with the easiest. This explain why this movie has always been much more beloved by teenagers and people in their early twenties than by older folks who consider it overrated. I think that you need to be in a young age or at least be able to put yourself in a position of a teenager in order to fully appreciate this movie. The growing-up theme of the movie, the whole twisted mixture of suffering and happiness in a teenager's life and they way Richard Kelley has captured it with the hlp of an amazing cast, led by Jake Gyllenhaal in his career-defining role, is a much more important topic in this movie than the time travel theories. The sci-fi elemtns here while appears to be the most important parts of the story, in fact serve as a background to the life of a troubled teenager.

As menioned above, Jake Gyllenhaal is great in his role. I cannot complain about the supporting cast either.Jake's portrayal of Donnie Darko is probably the most realistic portray of a troubled teenager that I have ever seen.

On the other hand, Donnie Darko is also a superhero story and this fact directly relates to the aspects of the teenager life. By showing how many problems most teenagers have to deal with nowadays, it is hinted that many teenagers are "superheroes" and that superheroes also have flaws.

Moreover, Donnie Darko works well as a dark comedy with some sublte and some not so sublte humor every now and then. The soundtrack of the movie is ingenious as well. Especially the song "Mad World" leaves an impression on the viewer as it seems to be the song which lyrics fit the movie more than one could ever imagine.

If the viewer can't be really bothered with the teenage aspect of the movie, there is still plenty of material left for discussion, mostly the so-called "Philosophy of Time Travel". One thing is for sure, though and that is that the movie definitely requires mutliple viewings. The ending of the movie blew me away and I am sure that it will do the same to many first-time viewers. In order to fully understand the happenings, though, I'd suggest to see this movie at least twice.

After its release Donnie Darko has soon become a cult hit with a big following. Each young generation has its movie and I believe that the most recent one has found its movie in Donnie Darko. Rarely a movie moved me and made me think as much as Donnie Darko did. This is one of those unique life-defining movies that you come across very rarely, but when you do, they stick in your mind for a long time. Highly recommendable.

Big Thumbs Up

Rod:
I was just about to mention (or did mention? :P) how effective the cinematography and music were in the film, they create the perfect atmosphere of eerieness, confusion that go along with the story in the movie perfectly. And "Mad World" definitely stands out among the songs. I won't give away any spoliers, but its just so haunting to see the images of regret (?), confusion, and everything that has become and could not be avoided with the song playing in the background. SUPERB choice.

One of the few things I did not like about the original version of the film, however, is that like all films it was trimmed down to under two hours. In doing so some key scenes were cut out...and are now available on the DVD or the Director's Cut release. One of those key scenes deal with Donnie Darko's therapist in which it is revelaed what the pills she's been giving him actually are. It is important because it shows that she never though of Donnie as someone who was actually insane....


Dr. Lecter:
I agree on that. I can never get enough of this movie and considering how hard this movie is to understand at first, each additional scene just helps the viewer. However, you can see it the other way. The theatrical cut of the movie leaves the viewer even more space for his own interpretations which can be discussion about for an endless period of time. I am sure that there is not definite way how to explain everything in Donne Darko. I also don't think that Richard Kelly intended the movie to be the way that everything has a clear explanation. This movie will never lose all of its mystery and even when you think that you have figured out everything you'll stuble over some new detail that you haven't noticed before. This movie is a gold mine for philosophical discussions and just a chat among fans of cinema.

I also want to get back to the scene that you have mentioned, in the end of the movie. I cannot recall any other scene in my life in which the on-screen action and the song playing in the background macthed so perfectly. Donnie Darko is a movie full of unique and memorable scenes, but this one definitely stands out. I couldn't have thought of a more perfect way to conclude the movie myself.

Rod:

And it connects the viewer to what the characters are feeling so well. (Possible spoilers now)

It's like all that has happened is crazy, and yet now it is only a distant memory (which the characters think of as merely a dream). And those vague memories and the plane engine are the only things left from that other parallel world. It's a bittersweet way to end the movie, but it couldn't be more effective.

The one things that I didn't quite get was the part just before that scene, where the plane is about to come down on the house. We hear's Elizabeth's boyfriend's car honking (names!!! what was the name of the boyfriend/bunny?) and in the Mad World sequence he's shown in his room/...so he sees what's happened in his gf's house, and he just keeps going anyway? oh...Frank. Another of the scnes I don't think should ahve been deleted...the one in which it is revelaed Elizabeth and Frank were dating. But a minor problem in a fantastic movie.

Esentially though, I feel ultimately the movie is about destiny and we as humans being unable to change that. It is briefly discussed in the movie...if you were able to see into your future than wouldn't that mean you'd be able to change it? It's not the case in this movie and I think that's one of the more prominent messages. Donnie knows what will happen, and still, his life ends tragically. And then if it hadn't...would it have been an even more tragic outcome for everyone else?

Dr. Lecter:

Some major spoilers below


I beg to disagree here, but the array of different interpretations is what makes this movie so unique. While Donnie Darko can't change his own destiny for good, but he saves many lives. What counts is that dies in happiness. Hif life has been fulfilled as he has experienced love. One of the questions that are left open is if Donnie knows that he will die when he laughs. I think he does, even though there are theories that he thinks it has all been a dream and therefore his laughter. I think that by the end of the movie Donnie's life has been fulfilled. The life he has spent in the tangent universe has been the only time when he has actually "lived" in his life because there was more of a sense to his life during that time than ever before.

Rod

Well, I disagree about that too. I do think he simply thinks he has woken up from some nightmare or something like that. One of the things that is explained is that people that go through that whole parallel universe thing remember it as only a dream once they're back into the "the real world" though I don't know if that would be the case for Donnie as well.

But those final words and the "morning after" shots showing how people react to the events are just as good as the "Mad Worl" sequence.

"Did You Know Him?"

Regardless of its meaning it's a super film. And one that will stick with me for years.

Dr. Lecter:


I realize that people who are back from the tangent universe believe that everything has just been a dream. However, I believe that with Donnie Darko being the Living Reciever things are different. I do think that he remembers all the good times and he is not afraid of death by the end of the movie.

A last point that I want to mention is that this movie is full of great lines with oine of my favorites being "Every creature on this earth dies alone"

As I said before, I consider this movie one of the very few modern genre-defining masterpieces and I am sure that I will never get tired of re-watching it in hope to catch more of the meaning behind it, as I am sure there is plenty left to find.

to be continued?...

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Post Re: Rod and Dr. Lecter Review Donnie Darko
Rod wrote:
I was just about to mention (or did mention? :P) how effective the cinematography and music were in the film, they create the perfect atmosphere of eerieness, confusion that go along with the story in the movie perfectly. And "Mad World" definitely stands out among the songs. I won't give away any spoliers, but its just so haunting to see the images of regret (?), confusion, and everything that has become and could not be avoided with the song playing in the background. SUPERB choice.

One of the few things I did not like about the original version of the film, however, is that like all films it was trimmed down to under two hours. In doing so some key scenes were cut out...and are now available on the DVD or the Director's Cut release. One of those key scenes deal with Donnie Darko's therapist in which it is revelaed what the pills she's been giving him actually are. It is important because it shows that she never though of Donnie as someone who was actually insane....


That's interesting because I thought the soundtrack was the weakest part. i know you guys both brought it up, but do you not think that even the title of "Mad World" is a bit expository and overkill? There was very good sound editing throughout most of the movie, and the rest of it from the cheesy dance music his sister's routine is for to the houseparty music kind of blends into the film well. So I wonder why this part was inserted. I tend to think that kind of music/lyrics isn't necessary when dealing with an already decent montage.

As to the drug use, I've never seen the dvd version, because I saw it in theatres and once on video (didn't own a dvd player back then). I tend to disagree with you though as I think it would make it too secure an indication, and tie him to closely to one type of mental stereotype. It goes with my reading of the story in which a large part has to do with his mother, even if meaning well, "stifling" his energies. Even while the doctor is always doubtful (this does come across even in the edited version) his mother keeps pushing it. I think its a commentary on pill-popping society, were we don't deal with the energies and psychologies of people that are different, but pretty much just quickly try to cater their habits. So I don't know if it was necessary to show which pill it was. $10 it was just for ADHD of depression. Am I right?

Dr. Lecter wrote:
I agree on that. I can never get enough of this movie and considering how hard this movie is to understand at first, each additional scene just helps the viewer. However, you can see it the other way. The theatrical cut of the movie leaves the viewer even more space for his own interpretations which can be discussion about for an endless period of time. I am sure that there is not definite way how to explain everything in Donne Darko. I also don't think that Richard Kelly intended the movie to be the way that everything has a clear explanation. This movie will never lose all of its mystery and even when you think that you have figured out everything you'll stuble over some new detail that you haven't noticed before. This movie is a gold mine for philosophical discussions and just a chat among fans of cinema.


I agree with you. The film was dense enough that it gets better with additional viewings. There's enough comic relief and sort of simple episodic situations that it doesn't try your patience even in round #3. Though I think I won't watch it again in the near future. And yes, I don't think there is only one interpretation, and that's probably intentional. Thats what allows for you to revisit it and see something new each time. I think alot of it is more just commentary, but he wove it together well enough that one thinks it must be tied into something bigger. Like how incredibly cheesy and bad the dance contest was? Or dissing the heavy native american girl? Or Swayze's scandal? You're like, man, that must be important. Is it? Maybe. Maybe not. That's why the movie is so fun.

I'll continue commentary later as well...since I just realized you guys hadn't wrapped up yet. Oops

edit* Do you guys mind if I or one of you changes the title to indicate it is the next round of the Back-n-Forth series...we're pushing for name-brand recognition :wink:


Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:21 am
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Yuo can go ahead asnd change the title. :)

I actually also like the sequence for the dance number, during the actual performance and when they;re going in at school. Oh and when the teacher finds out about the Swayze scandal and her change in expression, priceless. I forget what's p[laying, but I like it :wink:

Spoliers about Donnie's drugs:

In a scene not shown in the original theatrical version, it is revealead that the therapist has been giving him placebos (aka "sugar pills") .

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Post Re: Back-n-Forth Round 2: Donnie Darko!
Rod wrote:
It's like all that has happened is crazy, and yet now it is only a distant memory (which the characters think of as merely a dream). And those vague memories and the plane engine are the only things left from that other parallel world. It's a bittersweet way to end the movie, but it couldn't be more effective.

...Another of the scnes I don't think should ahve been deleted...the one in which it is revelaed Elizabeth and Frank were dating. But a minor problem in a fantastic movie.

Esentially though, I feel ultimately the movie is about destiny and we as humans being unable to change that. It is briefly discussed in the movie...if you were able to see into your future than wouldn't that mean you'd be able to change it?


You thought this movie actually had a parallel universe? Huh. That's interesting because I saw it differently, and because of that everything else I quoted doesn't hold true either. I saw it as a quest for information, and knowledge, and the creative process of Donnie. His mother is freaking out and trying to stifle it (meds) and ultimately, that is why she is on the plane that kills him. I think its a bit of a metaphor for her stifling. That's why she and his sister aren't actually on the airplane that kills him, and is rather at home (smoking a cigarette). There are too many inconsistencies for the events of his death to be taken literally. I think his return to the same time and place in order to die is just about accepting suicide.

The heavy sci-fi element to the film, and the plane parts, is a secondary theme which is well incorporated. Its about society being unready to handle certain technologies and ideas, and resorting to dumbifying (popping pills) anyone who gets a bit out of line. I think, not to overread it either, it was a savvy way in which the director made more of the than was there. Just like the critique of pop culture, and the porn scandal, and Barrymore's getting fired from English Class, etc, that I mentioned earlier, I'm not sure if it has a more profound reason for being in the party. Ultimately this movie was great because it didn't try too hard to tie up all the loose ends, a consequence of which discussions like this can be engaging.


Dr. Lecter wrote:

I beg to disagree here, but the array of different interpretations is what makes this movie so unique. While Donnie Darko can't change his own destiny for good, but he saves many lives. What counts is that dies in happiness. Hif life has been fulfilled as he has experienced love. One of the questions that are left open is if Donnie knows that he will die when he laughs. I think he does, even though there are theories that he thinks it has all been a dream and therefore his laughter. I think that by the end of the movie Donnie's life has been fulfilled. The life he has spent in the tangent universe has been the only time when he has actually "lived" in his life because there was more of a sense to his life during that time than ever before.


Yep, what you say kinda goes along with my suicide suggestion. I do think this was about picking and choosing, that that the primary focus was that his mom, in her worry, didn't trust his "free will" so to speak. I wouldn't be so direct as to say that he died happy, or that it would happen when he laughed, I think though that he consciously chose to put himself where he did. So he at least died full well knowing what was going to happen, and being okay with it.


Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:55 pm
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Post Re: Back-n-Forth Round 2: Donnie Darko!
dolcevita wrote:
Rod wrote:
It's like all that has happened is crazy, and yet now it is only a distant memory (which the characters think of as merely a dream). And those vague memories and the plane engine are the only things left from that other parallel world. It's a bittersweet way to end the movie, but it couldn't be more effective.

...Another of the scnes I don't think should ahve been deleted...the one in which it is revelaed Elizabeth and Frank were dating. But a minor problem in a fantastic movie.

Esentially though, I feel ultimately the movie is about destiny and we as humans being unable to change that. It is briefly discussed in the movie...if you were able to see into your future than wouldn't that mean you'd be able to change it?


You thought this movie actually had a parallel universe? Huh. That's interesting because I saw it differently, and because of that everything else I quoted doesn't hold true either. I saw it as a quest for information, and knowledge, and the creative process of Donnie. His mother is freaking out and trying to stifle it (meds) and ultimately, that is why she is on the plane that kills him. I think its a bit of a metaphor for her stifling. That's why she and his sister aren't actually on the airplane that kills him, and is rather at home (smoking a cigarette). There are too many inconsistencies for the events of his death to be taken literally. I think his return to the same time and place in order to die is just about accepting suicide.

The heavy sci-fi element to the film, and the plane parts, is a secondary theme which is well incorporated. Its about society being unready to handle certain technologies and ideas, and resorting to dumbifying (popping pills) anyone who gets a bit out of line. I think, not to overread it either, it was a savvy way in which the director made more of the than was there. Just like the critique of pop culture, and the porn scandal, and Barrymore's getting fired from English Class, etc, that I mentioned earlier, I'm not sure if it has a more profound reason for being in the party. Ultimately this movie was great because it didn't try too hard to tie up all the loose ends, a consequence of which discussions like this can be engaging.



Personally, I do think that there was an alternative universe, the tangent universe. Of what I have heard about the Director's Cut so far, I conclude that it pushes the sci-fi element of the movie even more, by incorporating the Philosophy of Time Travel theories into the movie. When my health is a bit beter and I can spend more time at the computer, I'll elaborate on why I think the whole tangent universe theories in the movie must be true.

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Post Re: Back-n-Forth Round 2: Donnie Darko!
Dr. Lecter wrote:

Personally, I do think that there was an alternative universe, the tangent universe. Of what I have heard about the Director's Cut so far, I conclude that it pushes the sci-fi element of the movie even more, by incorporating the Philosophy of Time Travel theories into the movie. When my health is a bit beter and I can spend more time at the computer, I'll elaborate on why I think the whole tangent universe theories in the movie must be true.


Yeah, I'd love to hear about it. I'm still unsure, so maybe a rewatch will get me thinking. I just think there were alot of sort of "inside" refences to surface expectations. Patrick Swayze's character for instance, WTF right? You wonder if the director just wanted some twilight-zone-esque comic relief or if there was a broader question addressing performance vs. reality. How people present themselves vs. how they really are. It seems like the most honest characters in the film are the children/teens, that haven't learned to fake a smile yet. The suger-pills actually add to this reading. That how people and things are perceived isn't necessarily true. Its an interesting play n adults vs. youthful interpretation. So perhaps it is for this reason its Darko, a kid, that sees the parallel universe. Or, it could just be, as I mentioned earlier, the fact that this movie is not cleaned up with all the edges tucked in nice and neat. It keeps it open to interpretation.

And yeah, I have no idea why the bunny has to be his sister's boyfriend in the end. Maybe because he is aware that it is him that is going to cause the accident, and this may not be the first time he's been through the time cycle. Remember how in the beginning he wakes up on outside and confused? This could be the third or fourth time he's gone through time, and only finally figured out that in order to end the repeat (ala Groundhog Day) something has to change. Being present in bed when the plane crashed may very well have been it?


Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:10 pm
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