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 Joker 

Rate this film:
A 36%  36%  [ 4 ]
B 27%  27%  [ 3 ]
C 27%  27%  [ 3 ]
D 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
F 9%  9%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 11

 Joker 
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Joker is a 2019 American psychological thriller film directed by Todd Phillips, who co-wrote the screenplay with Scott Silver. The film, based on DC Comics characters, stars Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker. Distributed by Warner Bros. Pictures, it is intended to launch DC Black, a series of DC-based standalone films. The film, which acts as an origin story for the Joker, is set in 1981 and follows Arthur Fleck, a failed stand-up comedian who turns to a life of crime and chaos in Gotham City. Robert De Niro, Zazie Beetz, and Frances Conroy appear in supporting roles.

Joker premiered at the 76th Venice International Film Festival on August 31, 2019, where it won the Golden Lion, the festival's highest prize. It is scheduled to be theatrically released in the United States on October 4, 2019. The film received positive reviews from critics, with particular praise for Phoenix's performance.


Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:58 pm
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Post Re: Joker
I completely understand and stand behind the praise Phoenix and Phillips are getting for this movie, both of them are at the top of their game. The movie is brilliant when it focuses only on Phoenix but as the second half of the film expands the world it just doesn't hold up. The reasons for this man turning bad almost felt conflicting with what the movie was trying to bring with that "painful laugh". As a Batman starter or as a Joker movie it needed more build-up. The whole riots joining Joker (even with the justification) felt like shoe-horned to bring that famous dark alley sequence specially with the "real ending" in hospital. Robert De Niro and Beetz are wasted here.

I wished that they haven't called this movie Joker. I probably would have loved it more looking at this movie without that antihero plotting and ending with De Niro stage sequence delivering a bigger emotional conclusion.


Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:58 am
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Post Re: Joker
Yeah the snowflakes were actually right on this one. It is very thematically troubling.

It’s still a good movie though and if they had just done a few things differently it could have been great.

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Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:35 pm
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Post Re: Joker
I think one scene change could have salvaged it a bit. They’re interviewing people about the subway killings (which is the best part of the movie) and one person says the clown is a hero. Why? Is it because he saved an innocent from predatory men? Nope. “Fuck rich people!” My problems aren’t of my own creation, its everyone else thats to blame. Society is holding me down and the system only rewards the worst of us. And my positive relationships with women? ALL A LIE. So therefore it is ok to commit violence, ok to take your vengeance on those who “wronged you” and even those who didn’t because fuck em. My life has been hard and everyone else needs to feel sorry for me or die trying.

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Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:40 pm
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Post Re: Joker
I actually loved this one

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Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:35 am
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Post Re: Joker
Love or hate film it seems

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Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:54 pm
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Post Re: Joker
I loved it as well.


Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:39 pm
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Post Re: Joker
D


Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:26 am
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Post Re: Joker
Darth Indiana Bond wrote:
Love or hate film it seems
I mean, my grade is still like a B. It's an impressive film, but an annoying one as well. The whole purpose seems to be "Arthur would not turn into Joker if things were different" but I don't think it accomplished that at all. Instead it lands on a Pro-Nihilism stance, because everybody is so awful that you should have the right to be awful too. It's almost like a frat-boy was trying to make a Martin Scorsese movie without ever having seen the end to one. Movies that directly tell me how smart and important they are, and how special and important I am for choosing them, that then proceed to go nowhere are my biggest pet peeve in the industry.

What I did like:

1) The King of Comedy ft. Joker is a pretty good premise for a movie. Though, again, Scorsese never once questions whether Rupert Pupkin's life is anything but his own fault. There's a responsibility in that movie, and a very ambiguous ending and Joker could have used both of those things.

2) The score is fantastic. Maybe the second best of the year after Us.

3) Strong camera work as well.

4) Jaquin's ACTING is a little too much sometimes, but its an incredible performance.

5) I didn't need to see the Wayne's die again (4th time on the big screen), and I do think Arthur should have died for thematic purposes. That being said, Pattinson v Phoenix will be a pretty epic showdown in The Batman 2 in 2024ish. They did nail the idea of Joker being responsible for their deaths without actually doing the deed himself (have you ever danced … nah they already dead.)

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Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:16 am
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Post Re: Joker
It's weird/not weird to me that this is already so beloved on the internet. It reminded me of Daenarys' arc on the final season of Thrones … which everyone on the internet HATED.


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Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:47 am
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Post Re: Joker
Phenomenal. Completely transcends the comic book genre and blows every other Joker out of the water (sorry, Heath). It's a startlingly original combination of tenderness and horror anchored by a career-defining performance. It's also topical in a way that feels genuine and important, unlike most of the social commentary claptrap that Hollywood churns out. My one criticism is that Thomas Wayne's death should've been a bigger moment considering its narrative weight.

A

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Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:27 am
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Post Re: Joker
It was entertaining but pretentious and seemed very focused on having a message moreso than being a movie.

B

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Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:39 am
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Post Re: Joker
A lot of great scenes, but no real plot to string it together. It doesn't really depict Phoenix's downfall all that well, and it doesn't really hit any any new ground for the genre, and it's R while apparent isn't utilized all that much. But it is an overall good experience, acting and cinematography are great, and would enjoy seeing a 10-20 year older Joker up against the new Batman down the line.

Not quite a homerun, but a major move in the right direction for DC.

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Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:18 pm
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Post Re: Joker
I really enjoyed it, but I can't really say that I thought it was a great film either. Phoenix is fantastic and from a technical/production standpoint it's very well made, but honestly there just wasn't that much for me to get invested in with this movie. It really does feel like that outside of Phoenix as Arthur Fleck it's actually quite weak when it comes to other characters and while Phoenix does carry the majority of it well from a story/narrative perspective a lot of it felt like it was really lacking IMO. The third act is easily my favorite part of this movie, especially that final confrontation between Deniro and Phoenix.

B+


Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:26 am
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Post Re: Joker
Really hated this.


Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:08 pm
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Post Re: Joker
So many ideas in its little head. And fuck if Todd Phillips doesn’t have a clue what to do with them. Phoenix makes this really watchable, almost to the point where I’d recommend it, but no. It’s clear Phillips wanted to make a hybrid of Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy (why else is this set in 1981?). The only problem is that no one would want to see that, especially from Phillips. Tack on the Joker’s name, Spectre the franchise (maybe...just another thing Phillips is wishy-washy over), and boom $306 million later, here we are.

The one thing they cut (supposedly) that would’ve been interesting: Bruce dying as well.

Boy is that Gary Glitter scene embarrassing. More embarrassing than anything Leto did (though that’s more on Phillips).

I know funding was cut, eliminating all social workers in Gotham ( :funny: cause that’s how it works), but nobody could’ve referred him to a social worker in Metropolis?

Here’s a first: Robert DeNiro bad. Miscast and flat out bad. Phillips desperately wants to make that Taxi Driver/King of Comedy connection though. The only problem is Johnny Carson he ain’t. He’s not even Leno. He’s actually very similar to how he is on SNL which just goes to show you how much he probably prepared for the role.

Finally, we’re supposed to believe this Joker becomes a criminal mastermind? Is there a hint anywhere that Arthur is smart let alone a simpleton? And with that voice?

Two more positives: The set and production design is really well done. Even though there’s no real reason for this movie to be set in 1981 (other than for the reason already stated in addition to matching/mimicking similar crimes that took place during that period which makes it even more problematic), you really believe it’s 1981. I also really liked Zazie Beetz. It’s just a shame Phillips doesn’t have the balls to show us what happened with her character.

One more negative: The two biggest laughs of the movie are a little person jumping for a door handle after Arthur brutally murders a friend because he sold Arthur the gun which started the whole thing. The other is Arthur bringing said gun to a children’s hospital. I’ll let you guess which one works and which one doesn’t, but let’s just say Phillips is twisted (insert gnarly guitar rift, shout out Blank Check).

C

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Last edited by Jmart on Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:27 pm
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Post Re: Joker
There is a lot more going on with this film than meets the eye. It's a much deeper film that some are giving it credit for, and this is especially true if you're a Batman fan and really look at the layers. The film requires more than one viewing to really get all the details and subtleties going on. A lot of details are easy to miss due to the magnetic performance of Phoenix. I don't really feel like explaining in depth, but I say all this as someone who had very strong doubts about this film before watching it.

A

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Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:56 pm
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Post Re: Joker
I went in having avoided basically all reviews / press / hype / controversy. Just wanted to see the movie....

Ended up having one of the most unsettling movie experiences of my life. I never want to see this again. Extremely disturbing on a deep level for me.

Also, some young male in the front of the theater was being extremely obnoxious and yelling stuff about the movie, was asked by an attendant to leave, he was swearing at her, then security came (during the scene where Joker was fleeing the police in the subway mayhem) and the guy supposedly threw a punch saying "I'm not leaving! I paid to be here! Call the cops!" then made a hasty escape when security left.... it was too fuckin meta. Very uncomfortable.

The anxiety that built throughout this movie affected me deeply. I thought it was fucking excellent and awful.

A

Will never watch this again.

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Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:05 am
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Post Re: Joker
Joker is annoying me more by the day.

Todd Phillips: "I wanted to make a real movie, but I disguised it as a comic book movie." What 'real movies' have you made before Todd? Fuck off.

Martin Scorsese: "I can't watch Marvel movies. It's not real cinema." Love you Marty, but maybe don't criticize others for making the "same movie every time" while you are promoting a gangster movie with Robert DeNiro.

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Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:30 am
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Post Re: Joker
The movie was very good and Phoenix was incredible but I think it would have been a seriously great movie if the movie ended about eight minutes or so before it actually did (when there was the pan out of the different news outlets).

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Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:50 pm
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Post Re: Joker
movies35 wrote:
The movie was very good and Phoenix was incredible but I think it would have been a seriously great movie if the movie ended about eight minutes or so before it actually did (when there was the pan out of the different news outlets).

A-

I think I had a similar thought, that the movie should have ended a little earlier. The coda didn't feel necessary.

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Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:02 pm
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Post Re: Joker
Yeah, I'm in the hated this camp. I thought it was dreadful and the direction and screenplay were amateurish. Joaquin is technically very good but there's never a moment you forget he's acting here, and the supporting cast is bad. That staircase sequence is one of the most cringe-inducingly awful movie moments I've seen in some time. I will say that the production design was pretty impeccable though, definitely felt like the gritty New York of the '80s.


Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:25 pm
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Post Re: Joker
It's not great. But always a good thing when a performance gets so much media attention.

Basically a dumber, less stylish, less arty Taxi Driver, where the sociopath's detachment eventually wins. The arc isn't interesting, the performance is maybe decent (at best), and the depth to understanding the pathology is disappointingly shallow. If it weren't for Phoenix's awkwardly-engaged physical schtick, how well-timed it was to do a dark anti-hero (post-Endgame), and the curiosity it marketed towards, guarantee this would've flopped, harder than Superman Returns. Why Todd Phillips, for something this dark?

I actually think some of it's just how perfect it seemed going in: Joaquin Phoenix as the fucking Joker - practically every moviebuff's wet dream for over a decade - and the fact it's a super-gorey, morally-bankrupt, super-dark 180 on everything Marvel's been shitting out; let alone how culturally famous (and mysterious) the character was to begin with.

All that stuff it delivered well enough to avoid a negative tipping point in the audience response, so the product got catapulted for the criteria it fulfilled more so than its quality, I would say.

Did anyone else find the gauntness excessive?

And isn't the guy supposed to be an evil genius? Cannot fathom how the dude portrayed would be remotely capable of the mass-scale orchestrations of TDK's version. His demeanor literally doesn't change when he gets off his medication, (in spite of him saying he "feels better") even though that would've been a perfect way to make his transformation actually be, you know, a transformation. The Joker at the end got there through a huge amount of luck - unrealistic luck - that undercuts the gritty realism of the Detroit-style visuals the film goes for. The last 20 minutes, unique talk-show thing notwithstanding, is rushed and ridiculous.

Liked the soundtrack, but it's like it wanted it to be a better film than it was. Maybe where I was sitting, but seemed like the loudest orchestra recording since Interstellar.

Think I need to watch it again. Was a bit stoned and probably had high expectations; read something cool last week where Phoenix described being in actual physical pain when doing the laugh. That's pretty neat, artistically. Guess so many angles had been tried already that something properly novel was always going to come off pretty strange at first. The issue I had was that as fucked-up as he seems, the script didn't give enough dimensions to work with; and more than once, his very line delivery seemed bad (in a bad acting way).

Ledger shits all over it.

C+


Last edited by Gamaur on Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:07 am
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Post Re: Joker
Magnus wrote:
This was written by a sixth grader who just discovered Nietzsche for the first time and thinks they’ve figured out nihilism but hasn’t got a clue


Perfect.


Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:18 am
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Post Re: Joker
I thought this was outstanding. Totally on board with Phoenix winning for this, and I loved DiCaprio. The physicality of his performance really takes it to another level, the way he bends his malnourished body, etc. The whole uncontrolled laughter, levity despite being miserable, part of his character was perfect for me. Really impressed by Todd Phillips directing. The cinematography felt natural and lived in to me and really set the world well. In the middle half of the movie I thought it was juggling a lot between the Thomas Wayne storyline, his mother, his comedy, De Niro, etc. but I think it's meant to signify all the things that can be happening in your life at once especially when it's swirling down.

I disagree with the people who think this has a shallow take "society deserved it" - that's what I was expecting this to be with Arthur spending the movie torturing wall street guys or whatever, but I thought it ended up more nuanced than that. For example one of the seminal moments that makes him the Joker permanently is when the guy that gave him the gun and the midget comes to his apartment. That guy was the only person to believe in him and 100% did nothing wrong and Joker killed him. So it is a sign that Joker's actions are not excused by the problems with society. De Niro's character didn't deserve to die either, he was acting as a moral voice of reason. When Joker says on his talk show that he's doing this because society is trash, it rings hollow because literally minutes before he claimed several times he is not political. Unlike Travis Bickle Arthur doesn't actually believe in anything, he only believes in himself as he inherited the narcissism from his mother. He doesn't really care about what the protestors are fighting for when he stands on the car at the end, he only cares that they're finally treating him as important and finally love him, and when he says on the talk show he's doing it to fix society he's changing his views to match them if anything and find any justification to latch onto. There is something of a Being There element to their worship of him in that the protestors project their views onto him, but in reality he is just a simpleton who is incapable of thinking with that complexity. I see Joker as clearly a villain not a hero and part of the message is that it's dangerous to treat people like this as heroes.


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