And how is it you know that conspiracy theories are all a hoax Box? Do you have proof to rebuke them?

As was said, this is a transitional Pope. He will probably not give out the decade. The Church seems to be binding their time to really consider who their next long-term leader will be, if they so choose to go that path again.

I will say that it troubles me what I see in his eyes mind.

It is not equality on all counts, or in general, but fundamentally so. The idea behind the Church is to offer a means of staying in touch with God and Christ's teachings. That being the case, the fundamental principle that a human being has the chance to be saved applies to both men and women. On the most important front, men and women are equal.

Keep in mind that this is a religious institution; it's in the business of being ideological, even in instances (and there've been many) where the actual practice contradicted Christ's teachings.






Neither was anyone except for the priest, whoever they were. Latin was exclusively the language of the Church, and the teaching of Latin was exclusive to a few people (rich men). But this was the case in pre-Christian Europe as well, as well as in other parts of the world. Global culture in general has treated men and women differently.

I think that the Church in fact gave women a means to at least be involved in studies, through nunneries, they otherwise would not have had in extremely sexist societies. I know that many women, to avoid marriage or else to find shelter, either willfully or forecfully entered convents. Given that the other two options were marriage, or death, I would say society, both within and without a Christian context, was sexist.





I agree.





In my opinion, reform will occur, but it will be slowly, and it will not be along the lines that those outside of the Church will expect. Any changes will be in accordance to the Bible, especially the New Testament. I don't see how that could be disputed. I think that the example you gave above regarding your friend will be one of the issues that will have to be dealt with (it's a must), but I think that, even if monetary equality is given to women, that doesn't mean that the religious roles within the church will likely change.


What I mean by that is that, because women are portrayed differently in the New Testament than men, the roles will be different within the Church. However, I think that one point which, due to the already sexist nature of European and world society, has been surpressed, is that, while the female roles were different, women were as importan to Jesus as the men were.

This crucial point will have to be empahsized. After all, it is a woman who washes Jesus' face during the Passion processions, and it is women who are among his most faithful followers.

Within this century, I think we will see a re-evaluation of the role of women. I think new positions within the Church will be established.




Nothing that Jesus says would be compatible with that. The truth is that the Adam/Eve mentality still exists, of course, but from a Christian perspective, whoever it was who ate the apple, both men and women sinned, and both have the chance to be saved. What business does Jesus have helping prostitutes and others if they have no chance to be saved?

The interpretation of the texts is one-sided; it's arguable that Adam had a greater fall, as he should have known better, for example.

But the basic, which is that we are all born into a state of sin and can be saved through Christ, is unquestionably applicable to all of humanity, irrespective of sex and gender.

Twice.

I'm going to push my religious beliefs on you! Rawr!
Well, I don't believe in any of your baloney, so I'm going to push my non-beliefs on you! Rawr!

Hilarity ensues. :pop:

I, as well as you and everyone else, has the capacity to rebuke any and all.

Conspiracy theories necessarily rquire a certain level of ignorance; you are basically involved in the act of speculating about something that you don't know about.

When you investigate the various positions of a church or institution, you come to find a certain pattern in their policy and decision-making: whatever is in their best interest is the best course of action.

When the motives are not clearly understood, that is when speculation sets in: What are they doing? Why are they doing it? What do they want? Etc.

With powerful institutions like the Catholic Church, because they are so huge, these questions take a political characterstic: do they want to take over the world??? Is there some secret document that they don't want anybody to know about???

The truth is that speculation, and conspiracy theories, being based on false assumptions, lead to false conclusions. I would say that, almost always, if not always, the claims are exaggerated.

The conservative enclaves within the Catholicism obviously have an agenda, but that agenda is not a secret: the only thing you need to find out what they want is to read the Bible. But how many people actually do that? It's much easier to make up something than do the hard work of research.

There is also a false premise/ false conclusion angle to conspiracy theories. Anti-semites love to cite the disproportionate number of Jews in banking, finance, entertainment, etc., but what they fail to acknowledge are those in the same position who are not Jewish, and the 2,000+ years of scholarship that has been part of Jewish tradition which has stressed learning and education. Any group of people, if they devote 2,000+ years to learning, can achieve success. There's no conspiracy here; it's simply a group of hard-working people being slandered, and ofen brutally mistreated for doing nothing more than being the best they can be.


Many other examples run along the same line, and they all evolve around ignorance. Knowledge in this case really is power, specifically, the power to know the truth, and the truth is that conspiracy theories are pernicious works of fancy.

This is slightly (and by slightly I mean completely), off-topic, but your avatar reminded me of that great scene where the song 'Evenstar' was playing in the background. That is such a beautiful piece of music.

I really miss Lord of the Rings. The scores for those films are masterpieces in their own right!

I have a new stance on this! I'm neutral! It's quite simple, really. I believe in the possibility of there being a God, without directly believing IN him. That way, when I die, if I get to a heaven and find out there is a God, I can just assume that he will forgive me, since it's all about forgiveness, and that's that. If there isn't a God or a heaven, then I won't be disappointed in the least, nor will I be able to gloat about being right. It's very simple, no scientific explanations needed, it's called "The Coward's Way Of Life".

Agreed, but they are only a dvd away. :wink:

Infinitely.

(I too can go the childish route like you.)

NOW who's being naive, box?

How generous #-o #-o

:fishing:




Well, Levy, that is considered a generous act by Christians. God didn't have to have his Son die for us to be given the possibility to be saved.

This is a religious institution;they're in the business of being idealistic.


..............


Guys, next World Youth Day will have this background:





=D>

Believing that there is a majic man that floats in the sky also involves a false premise and a great deal of ignorance.

How fitting to hold the catholic World Youth Day in Germany's gay capital

Oh, I see you have a wide array of proofs against it, eh?

Seems like a good choice! I don' think he'll be Pope for that long, though, considering his age.

Actually, no I don't Doc. But to say that conspiracy theories are easily rebuked because there is a level of ignorance to them is just as silly as belieivng that there is an altruistic being that floats in the air and believing that just because someone elects him so, that the pope is closest thing to God as we can get. What makes him that way? Did God bestow that honour upon him? Why can't I be close to God, why can't you? Religion drives me nuts because it is the greates lie ever told and most people fall for it because it makes them feel better. What's beyond our life? Nothing, absolutely nothing. This is it folks. God? Well, if there were, this is not the life that he would give to any of us.

Religion brings out the best in all of us

And where are your proofs, Mr. Mulder?

:umn: Finally, one of my threads is getting lots of posts and such! ... ha.

There is a difference between religious faith and belief in conspiracy theories.


Religion requires an act of faith, but that faith is between God and the human being; the communion is between God and the person. The mystery or mysteries can, ccording to religion, not be known by human beings. Necessarily, the mystery remains no matter how much knowledge we accumulate about God or religion; how can you know if there is a heaven or how it is when dying means you will never return to tell? Is there, for that matter, an afterlife? Maybe yes, maybe no, it's really an act of faith on your part.

Conspiracy theories are firmly grounded in human acitivities; human beings in groups conspiring to do this or that. Thus, being human being, an accumulation of knowledge about them will put an end to any conspiracy theories concerning them. Simply put, it's within us to dismiss those theories.

As well, belief in God or Jesus or whoever is not dervied from ignorance, but rather, is a result of a leap of faith. It has never been proven that God does not exist (or that He exists). Thus, as of now, it's all speculation, but it's far from ignorance that drives people's beliefs.

This is what I love about religious debate, aside from taking the coward's way out and not saying anything. The religious people impose their beliefs on non-religious people, and in return, non-religious people force their beliefs on religious people. It's called the circle of life.