I sit here pondering what has happened to the youth of today. Why has it become so important to ' grow up' before your time? When did such attitude creep in to the homes across America and when did it become acceptable???? I'm a father, my daughter is almost 13. Her mother and I have been together over 15 years. We try to do our best....Now you are all probably thinking there is some major issue in my house hold, but there isn't. Over the last few months things have been changing and that's ok. Its part of growing up. What kills me is how fast kids want to change. I saw a comic the other day, I'm not sure which one but its showed a few teenagers hanging out after school. In the next frame they said goodbye and rushed home to all talk on the phone. By the last frame they all wanted off the phone so they could just I.M. each other... Now this killed me because its true to a certain point. Why would anyone in there right mind want to chat with their friends on a computer vs face to face when possible? I've seen my daughter do this very same thing in the middle of the day on the weekend. There was nothing really stopping her from actually going to hang out with some friends, they just all chose the computer. I just don't get it.

Ok, back to the subject.

First the questions:
Why do 12, 13, etc...year olds have or experiment with sex? Why is it important to have a boyfriend/girlfriend all the time at that age? Why would a child of 11 feel the need to walk down the street with a cigarette in his hand? Why bring weapons to school? Who said it was cool to be stoned and dealing drugs at 13? Who here wants to be pregnant in the 7th grade??? I could go on but I think you get the picture.

Lets cut it back a bit. Cell phones,,,,why does a 12 year old need a cell phone? Where would they be going by themselves that a cell phone becomes a necessity? Are you going for a walk to the next town over? "Hey mom I'll keep in touch, I've got my cell."...O,,I forgot, kids don't walk today, its against their religion. "Little John, we're out of milk, walk 2 or 3 blocks down to the corner store and get some..." All you get is this look,,,like are you nuts?

Ooo, why is it so damn hard to pick up after yourself. Really??? Why?? Why do you need a new glass for every drink throughout the day? Why is it ok to leave clothes in every room of the house? Who leaves wet towels on their bedroom floors? Who put the soda back in the fridge with just a mouthful left in the bottle? Or the bag of chips with just crumbs in it left in the cabinet? Again it gets worse but you get the point.

I try,,I really do... All of this just isn't about my daughter, its what I see. I've only touched upon it. I went through it but not at 12 or 13. I've never gone to the extreme that I see in the society of todays youth.

My bitch here isn't that these things happen. They're going to happen in one form or the other to a certain percent of everyone. Its part of growing up I guess. You have to learn for yourself so to speak.

Why so young? When did being a kid become such a bad thing? Why grow up so fast? My daughter and I were having a conversation the other night, (which I wont go into) but she comes off with the statement, "I can take care of myself!" Now that is a broad stroke of the brush... How I would love to show her what it really means...


Take it slow people. Enjoy it now because it never comes again. Keep an open mind. There are consequences to your actions..Realize that what you think, what you know today, will not necessarily be that way tomorrow....




Finally,,, I'd like each of you to explain your lives to me. Tell me why you are who you are. Why you think the way you think? Why do you think your right or wrong? Who do you love, who do you hate? What's important to you and what isn't? etc..... Truth is I think I know some of these answers and I'll come back with that at a later time but i'd like to hear it from you first....

A ha.

Hmmm?


You're an aspiring director huh? :wink:

Despite what some might say, you're right. I share these same thoughts and opinions a lot, and I'm 18!! I don't have a lot of time, but I would like to discuss a lot of what you said tomorrow.

Don't confuse the Unknown, you unknown. Who are you, anyway? Rod? Never heard of ya! :wink:

Well, I just figure someone who want to be a director would have at least some insight/understanding about the world, and...stuff :razz:

I find it hard to believe last generation's youth didn't have problems. They might not be the same problems today's youth has, but they were there I'm guessing.

Why would young ones wanna grow up? Uhhhh.....maybe cause being young/ a teenager isn't exactly always fun, or easy? Even if when you end up growing up and know what you do you end up wishing you could take what you know then and being able to live your youth again.

Or, I don't know...

I wish, for one day, I could go back with ALL the knowledge I have now, minus any of my problems, and just live a day as a five year old.

Let's all hold hands and agree that it's Britney's fault. *Mourns with Mr. X*

I don't know about America, but I'm guessing it creeped into homes in general about 150,000 years ago, give or take.

It seems like the only thing more constant than the young wanting to grow up too fast (and have sex, and drink, and live by their own rules) is the ability of their parents to completely and absolutely forget what they were like as teenagers.

who are you!?!?!?!

You are Hitler, and you want us to be your Hitler Youth! DO NOT LISTEN TO THE NAZIS!!

*dies in 5 minutes*

Well I think alot has to do with me being burned. My look out on life is different then most people i've been told. I did lead a very shetlered life which also kept me from being bitter and jaded about life. I was thrust into life and its cold truths with I was 16 and started to drive I learned that kids my age tend to not welcome peole who look different so I became quiet and anti social. I did not really hangout with kids my age much tell I was 18yrs old and thats when I finally forced myself to relized i'm different and I can't fucking change it. So I made friends and found out it does not always matter with how you look alot of will welcome you with open arms and not judge you on looks alone. the friends I have now mean the world to me because they showeds me theres no reason to hide who you are but to embrace yourself and be yourself.

I used to be like that when I was young Unknown. But once I hit 15 I pulled my head out of my ass and stopped the bullshitting. Good points.

You know, I never understood that in people, at any age. Not just looks, but...uh. People who are the same, who act the same who believe the same things, etc. being able to only be friends with people "within their group."


I think I'm probably odd, or different in my own way and perhaps that's why. But I couldn't never be like that. You know, I already know who I am I don't need a carbon copy of me to be next to me all the time to remind me of how great I am. or whatever the reason is. They'd bore me to hell after a while anyway. I'd rather hear other perspectives from people different than me, or from the generic crowd who is like everyone else and is super "popular and liked" BECAUSE they are like everyone else.

Or I don't know. I don't know that I even know what I'm saying. Just that "different" usually means more interesting and fun, at least to me.

you and me would get along great.

I don't think you will get much help here on these issues.

You are complaining about teen issues, yet come to a sight full of teens?

There are plenty of sights that handle these issues. You would be better off posting these questions at those. You might actually receive some answers from those who are experienced on these issues or who have been through what you are going through now. There is no one answer. Nothing is that simple.

When people are young, they are in a rush to grow up. When they are grown up, they are in a rush to turn back the clock. You can't really win.

Alcohol, Drugs, etc., are way more complicated. A lot of teens are just plain flakes. Some develop an alcohol and/or drug problem. Some think it's cool. Some are talked into it. There is no one answer to any of these questions you have asked.

The early cigarette issue? To be honest, I am shocked it still even exists like it does. With such a vein society that is all about looks, I am shocked it still even goes on or is even considered cool by nowaday standards. Seems in college the girls tend to avoid it because they are so concerned about wrinkles and whatnot.

Many have emotional disorders and or other problems. Such problems should not be punished and should receive outside help if you can't help the problem. You really have to figure out real problem vs. snot. Can be difficult.

But, for the typical snot who is being a snot simply for the sake of being ignorant, here is what you do. Put her money where her mouth is.

Dirty rooms? Well, these habits tend to start in early childhood. If rules were enforced, there wouldn't be a dirty room. You either clean your room or you lose a part of it. If something is on the floor, it is obviously something you don't need then. That's the way you work that. Once they start losing a couple things to the dumpster out back, you will see how fast that room gets clean.

She can take care of herself? Let her try it. Not as easy as it sounds. From this point on, all phones will be cut, no meals cooked, no laundry done, no money shall exchange hands whatsoever for any reason, and she must earn her food through an afterschool job. If she has to wash bathrooms or even pick up cow drippings on a farm, then that's what she has to do. This should curb the attitude very quickly. If it doesn't and she actually succeeds at doing this, she is way ahead of the game, a motivated individual, and probably won't have much trouble as an adult. It's a great test really.

You could even go as far as making her move onto the sidewalk. But, this might be illegal in your state.

P.S. The last part of your essay on teens issues sounds like some form of Mall survey. Would take much more time to answer than 5 minutes.

And no, I am no longer a teenager. I just act like one (to an extent) and look like an older one. I still get carded for R rated movies even at 6ft3in. The curses of being young. Oh well. I guess I should be happy. Time to start worrying is when the carding stops I guess.

When I was a teen ( which seems like yesterday ) we didn't start all this stuff until around 16/17. Its just that every generation seems to be starting younger and younger. That's what I don't understand. Kids,,,,,children 12 and 13 are doing thing that I never considered at that age. I'm not saying it was ok when I was young but theres a big difference between a 17 year old and a 13 year old. My daughter was talking to my wife telling her how theres a girl in her class that's pregnant. Shes in the seventh grade. Its fucking ridiculous!

Ok,,I've got to get ready for work so write more later... Why am I here? I was at MOJO a lot and I pop in here everyday. I know many of you, you just don't know Unknown. I want your opinions.

7th grade preganant girl? Me thinks the parents were so scared to talk to her about the birds and the bees that she didn't even know about condoms. Or would have freaked out if she'd had to ask them to buy some for her.

God I would make a shit mother. I'd be so paranoid about pre-empting my kids curiosity so that something like that would never happen. I'd forget to tell them to take their time and that some things you really shouldn't do at age ten. Too paranoid they'd be doing it behind my back, not telling me, and hurting themselves because of it. I'd probably get them drunk by four so that they know what it feels and never get in a car or start talking to strangers, or so that I'm there the first time they get ill, and I would probably be showing them how to put condoms on back end of broom sticks by the time they were five. You know...like, just in case they got curious at six and were afraid to ask me.

It is! It's all her fault!

I clicked on the topic expecting discussion on a different form of "growing up", i.e. more about commanding respect than desiring physical maturity.

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I myself enrolled in a university at age 13, and am an investment bank employee at 18. The original decision to skip four grades arose from a horrendous fear of high school. Social environments in high school (and even middle school) can be absolutely brutal for the staunch individualist, and stifling for an intellectual mind. In college, and far more so, in professional life, I feel vincicated as such. The rite of passage is over, and people appreciate one another as people.

During my five years of college, many of your stated factors came into play. First and foremost, to a minor living by himself, the age-18 legal adult status was an unmitigated form of absolute oppression, reducing a citizen's legal rights to little better than that of a slave. Restricted activities included bank accounts, credit cards, video rentals, waiver forms, most school paperwork, and even vehicle ownership. (Licenses can be obtained at 16, but the vehicle title has to be signed at 18) In social circles, every second of interaction was driven by a deeply self-conscious push to obtain respect as an equal. Not the stereotypical notion of "fitting in", but respect insofar as opinion expression and future goals are concerned. One does not understand how much this can hurt until he/she has firsthand experience. Here is one example:

One day, after being asked what concerns were on my mind, I spoke to a friend regarding the need to graduate promptly and start earning money. His response was that of "You are still young [I was 16 at the time], take your time", not knowing about the $95,000 I borrowed for my education and the immediate urgency of financial concerns.

Messiness is a problem of habit. I know both messy middle-aged people and neat-freak teens. This is not directly caused by any other concerns expressed in the thread. Same with laziness as seen in the milk-errand example. Also, walking ten minutes is far inferior to driving one minute, when one must walk across a desolate wasteland of sprawl with no other pedestrians. The ten minutes are much shorter when the environment is more colorful.

Computer usage is efficient. One can chat with as many contacts as needed, simultaneously. Also, heavy computer usage is often caused by the inconvenience of face-to-face contact. When walking, everybody is hours away from everybody else these days. Even when an automobile is in the equation, it is a poor replacement for public transportation and an actually livable urban fabric. Americans in the past four decades have, in the quest for peace and spacial comfort, forsaken all other aspects of lifestyle. Why should a student want the trouble of meeting face-to-face if the best activity within a fifty miles is a measly bowling alley or shopping mall, when the same words can be conveyed all the same online? Look at Paris; the city is not even fifty miles wide altogether, yet is filled with life and adventure. It certainly is not an anomaly; entire countries live like that outside of North America! Perhaps considering moving to a location that promotes activity if this is so important.

Remember that centuries ago, life expectancy was in the thirties, and people married and commenced family life in their teenage years. Considering puberty does occur during teenage years, biologically we are programmed to accelerate to that point. The notion of delaying marriage, and thus reproductive sex, to the late twenties or thirties, is nothing but a contrivance of modern socioeconomics. Teenagers having sex is the manifestation of slippage on the faultline between biological and social urges.

Humanity is wired to desire more than is currently available; this is where the simple concept of motivation arises from. The same rule applies to children. To the modern teenager desiring more than is given to them, they are tacitly exercising a rebellion against social repression. Parents typically mistake this repression to be caring. The result is a generation of helplessly dependent and pampered suburbanite drones that does not even know how to do laundry, much less file taxes, for whom the apex of lifestyle achievement is shopping at The Gap and eating dinner at Chick-Fil-A. Sure, childhood as a process is inevitable and necessary, but it as a concept, as embodied by certain toys or activities, is unhelpful at best. Here in Texas, a spring break activity for students may well be only "chilling" at one person's home, whereas I have friends in Spain and Germany that travel all over Europe at will, given adequate funds, on self-planned itineraries. Ask the average suburban American teenager to book plane tickets and hotel reservations, and he stares at you as if you just spoke in Russian.

Technical necessities such as cellular phones are not central to the growing up process, but only tools to smooth out irritations in lifestyle. Of course they do not need them, but sure, we do not need automobiles, electrical power, even clothing. See where that leads to? Anybody that experienced waiting for somebody stuck in a traffic jam should understand the convenience of a "Hello, where are you?" call from a mobile phone. Arguments to the gist of "We got along just fine without it years ago" defeat the very purpose of human civilization, which is to advance forward. One example:

A friend's parents had purchased a half-million-dollar home, and invited me as part of an open house celebration. I overheard how they attempted to install Windows 2000 on a rickety 486 computer, and blamed the software for malfunctioning. They cited price as the reason they never upgraded. A whopping $500 for a new computer, inside a $500,000 house. Before you ask, yes they did say "We got along just fine without it." The anathema of progress, at its best.

My argument is, excessive sheltering, dissuasion, or pampering do not produce the ideal outcome. The most important activity should be choosing which aspects of a child's demands should be fulfilled, as far as that goes. Regarding aspects of lifestyle, promoting alternatives may require moving to a place that provides incentives for change.

Excuse the rambling statement; it has not been proofread for coherence or errors. Also, excuse the geographical commentary if you do not live in such a location, though I am sure you do, since most Americans do.


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As for me, I think like this because I have seen better things and places. For years now I have derided suburban American society as the first time in history where higher material living standards have lowered absolute living standards, having grown up in it and experiencing its horrors firsthand.

I love social visionaries and hate people that drag the rest of society down by drowning in the past. Note that, as a staunch conservative myself behaviorally, this does not equate to liberalism and conservatism. What is important to me is the opportunity to actualize myself and my friends, through communication, hobbies, lifestyle, and charity. What is not important are absolute measurements of wealth and power, and manifestations of the two. Life is to be lived as an enjoyable process and not a routine chore. I chose a lucrative profession to hopefully take my mind off of practical, technical concerns. Too many people's lives are shaped by the limits of money, rather than by the limits of their characters. I have seen what that does to people, and aim to evade it to the best of my ability.

You will find that people who use maturity as a weapon, think of themselves as being mature or strive to BECOME mature are generally, immature. When its not an explicit declaration; its an unspoken disapproval.

Thats the irony; so many teens are immature that they follow that ethic; as though it gives them a superiority over peers in a world thats far more receptive to different groups and cultures than its ever been. No longer is it effective to harass kids for being different; because people in youth prize being different today [although being different actually means being in a GROUP of people the same who think they are different] so instead maturity is the weapon.

I was talking to my friend today about how so many people our age seem to be going through an identity crises; gone are the hints of individualism we saw last year; even gone are the widely intermingled groupings of people - today there are stern groups who don't even communicate with each other any more. The infectious metrosexuality which is spreading through UK youth like wildfire reflects this. The strange thing is where im at; there never was the sterotypical highschool settup - everyone more or less got along; no one group was singled out all that much and it was pretty much an equal playing field. But apparently since ive left; things have changed drastically.

Michael you were right!

Good post, Michael. Maturity is an intangible part a person, and when it seems to be manipulable, it is not maturity the person leverages, but something more shallow such as speech or behavioral patterns. Though I must say that even shallow displays thereof are not wholly ineffective when trying to achieve certain ends. The average student heading out of college, for obvious reasons, are rather clueless about professional discourse and dining etiquette, but is well advised to learn such things as elements of social maturity.

Looks like I sounded a bit patronizing there. It wasn't the intention.

No you misunderstodd. Michael has only sung your praises, i was agreeing. Very thought out post, and wuite alot of personal history off the bat. Wow when i was thirteen I think all I was doing was owrrying if I was ever going to clear 4'10" in high jump. :wink: