Thankis for clueing me into this Archie. When I went to look it up and noticed Cruz was in it I suddenly remembered that I actually have seen the trailer. The trailer was trash, or, should I say they made Cruz look so awful I couldn't get over it enough to watch the rest of the trailer. Interestingly enough, I still don't remember anything else about it



Could be ok, but its clear that the Timoteo's daughter is born to his wife out of affection for Italia. This comes from a long line of movies having to do with rape and the mother country. I read somewhere once that every woman in Italian film (especially Loren) is a metaphor for Italy. Suffice it to say there is alot of abuse.

Eh, sometimes these things don't do it for me. The burgeoning love from the sexually violent origin. I'll probably check it out, even though I can't stand Cruz, because I'm always desperate to find a movie that somehow makes this work. I haven't yet. How he'd know the address and name of the woman he raped already seems a bit sketchy, and why she would come back runs along the S&M themes of a ton of Italian films. On the other hand, the story was actually written by his wife, not him, so could have redeeming insight. Oh course I thought the same thing about female direction in The Night Porter and boy was I wrong.

Do you still have that article? I'd love to read it.

The movie I found Ok - I wish I had read the book in order to understand better some of the charcater´s motivations... There was some dark stuff in there but you just couldn´t know where it come from, probably the book addressed that but here, with no voiceover or such... I just didn´t get it. It was very well acted, though, and even had an over the top stereotypical italian song played in full-blown volume at the most emotional moments that should have come across as cheesy but I actually quite liked...

If you are into that great tradition of S&M Italian films :wink: (Didn´t know about that, have to watch more italian movies!) - you may be able to understand it better that I did and even know where all that dark, violent material was coming from.

And don´t worry, It´s not sketchy at all... SPOILERS

He knows her name cause she tells him before. He goes to her place to use the phone and then rapes her END SPOILERS

Well cheesyness can be converted into something other if its conscious of itself. Depends on if the film took the music to be very serious or if it realized what it was doing? I'd think it would be a bit dark from the trailer. They really transformed Cruz into the wreck and the tone was very gritty rather than glossy (to the trailer that is, I can't speak for the entire movie since I haven't seen it).



It's impossible not to be, they pretty much all are. They should spare us the trouble and just elide the words S&M and Italian so that we don't have to bother. I've stated quite often, and it's come up in the Eros thread as well, that italian cinema at its most basic is pretty vulgar. I like it, but I'm not in denial about it being there. Sometimes they use the obsession with men's penises to create the greatest works of the century...othertimes it seriously goes desperately wrong. Usually, there's a very fine line that seperate the two.



Ok, read that over, it makes more sense now as to why he would know, but I'm still not concinved at how the relationship translates from rape to love. But then again, I don't get that discussion in domestic abuse either, so it could just be me.

Thanks for your insight, it seems to me like every movie I want to see you get the priviledge of watching half a year before it gets released here. Lucky you.....

No, It wasn´t self-concious at all - no wink-wink postmodernism, going straight to the guts with a tipycal italian song sang by a man with a raspy crooner-like voice... It shouldn´t work, but for me it did.

The movie is definitely trying to be gritty in content, not in style (camerawork, etc). maybe that is partly why I couldn´t really understand some of the dark behaviour of the characters, their desperation - It seemed to come from nowhere, and the visual style didn´t hint it at all, either.



Obsession with men´s penises? I want more examples of that! :wink:

There was definitely a lot of "Male-grief" in the film - the rapist doctor is a tortured guy who gets involved in a tempestuos relationship with a total wreck of a woman - called Italia - who is nothing like his picture perfect wife... midlife crisis? I don´t know... Either It wasn´t properly explained or I just didn´t relate to the whole thing at all



It is definitely a S&M relationship... but only at first. There is only one rape, although their lovemaking is always a bit rough... but from then on, It´s played like a great love story, full of - a little bit twisted - romance.

We get some european movies first down here... but hey, we had to wait two years to get "American Splendor", so every place has its ups and downs... :wink: