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i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm
Posts: 6665
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 International spying: Germans "in bed with" NSA The latest round of leaks revealed the US bugged European Union offices, gained access to EU internal computer networks, and tapped half a billion phone calls, emails and text messages in Germany in a typical month. In response to the revelations, a spokesperson from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said on Sunday, "While we are not going to comment publicly on specific alleged intelligence activities, as a matter of policy we have made clear that the United States gathers foreign intelligence of the type gathered by all nations." If what was said is true, international spying is common and possibly a mutually assured practice. Nations have been spying on each other and are well aware of being spied on. So the outrage among the EU elites is more a political gesture than a substantive denouncement. What is your take on this? Is the US the only "bad guy" here? Are people overreacting over this? Are you okay with international spying as a common practice?
Last edited by i.hope on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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| Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:07 pm |
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David
Pure Phase
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:33 am
Posts: 34865
Location: Maryland
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Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? I imagine every nation with the capability of gathering intelligence regarding their peers and competitors through subterfuge does so. The same goes for major corporations.
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| Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:15 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm
Posts: 92093
Location: Bonn, Germany
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Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? Okay, so my take on it is this:
If Germany had the same capabilities and resources as the US to do that, I have absolutely no doubt that they would do it. However, I do not believe that we do have this degree of resources and thus are probably not doing it to that extent at least.
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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| Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:17 pm |
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David
Pure Phase
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:33 am
Posts: 34865
Location: Maryland
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Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? And for this I am grateful. The world tends to go sideways when Germany has too many resources.
_________________1. The Lost City of Z - 2. A Cure for Wellness - 3. Phantom Thread - 4. T2 Trainspotting - 5. Detroit - 6. Good Time - 7. The Beguiled - 8. The Florida Project - 9. Logan and 10. Molly's Game
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| Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:21 pm |
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i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm
Posts: 6665
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Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? It's never a level playing field. The US and its Anglo-Saxon English-speaking allies probably have more capabilities and resources in terms of military and surveillance power than the rest of the world combined.
Here comes the question: would we rather see a monopolistic power (like the Anglo-Saxon states) or a bipolar/multipolar world (US, EU, China-Russia) dictating international agendas? Do we have a third choice?
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| Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:52 pm |
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David
Pure Phase
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:33 am
Posts: 34865
Location: Maryland
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Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? I want the U.S. and Britain to set the international agenda.
_________________1. The Lost City of Z - 2. A Cure for Wellness - 3. Phantom Thread - 4. T2 Trainspotting - 5. Detroit - 6. Good Time - 7. The Beguiled - 8. The Florida Project - 9. Logan and 10. Molly's Game
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| Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:57 pm |
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nghtvsn
Extraordinary
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 11016
Location: Warren Theatre Oklahoma
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Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? I really don't care about international spying because we all know every country that's capable of spying does it. It's been going on since the beginning of nation states. They send out spies to infiltrate the "enemy" and gather intelligence. All these types of releases are doing is just embarrassing the US and makes us hypocritical when we complain about other countries that do it. I'm more interested in more detailed documents about domestic spying. This may the norm today but let's recall that this endless spy grid did nothing to stop the Boston bombers. Just spill the beans on what a few senators and congressmen have been googling and doing in their spare time. That's what I want.
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| Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:21 pm |
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i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm
Posts: 6665
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Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? Quote: America's National Security Agency works closely with Germany and other Western states on a 'no questions asked'-basis, former NSA employee Edward Snowden said in comments that undermine Chancellor Angela Merkel's indignant talk of "Cold War" tactics. "They are in bed with the Germans, just like with most other Western states," German magazine Der Spiegel quotes him as saying in an interview published on Sunday that was carried out before he fled to Hong Kong in May and divulged details of extensive secret U.S. surveillance. "Other agencies don't ask us where we got the information from and we don't ask them. That way they can protect their top politicians from the backlash in case it emerges how massively people's privacy is abused worldwide," he said. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/07/us-usa-security-germany-idUSBRE9660C020130707German Chancellor Angela Merkel's response: Quote: “The work of intelligence agencies in democratic states was always vital to the safety of citizens and will remain so in the future,” Ms. Merkel was quoted as saying in an interview published Thursday in the newspaper Die Zeit. “For me, there is absolutely no comparison between the Stasi in East Germany and the work of intelligence services in democratic states,” she added, calling the programs “two totally different things.” http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/12/world/europe/merkel-seems-to-weather-german-anger-over-nsa-spying.html?_r=0Allied countries do share intelligence. But the people should have a say about how far intelligence gathering can go without an abusive level of privacy intrusion. So German officials were merely posturing when they decried NSA's Prism. Were people in Germany kept in the dark about their country's co-op with the US intelligence?
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| Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:55 pm |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm
Posts: 68387
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Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? David wrote: And for this I am grateful. The world tends to go sideways when Germany has too many resources.  _________________STOP UIGHUR GENOCIDE IN XINJIANG
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| Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:39 am |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm
Posts: 92093
Location: Bonn, Germany
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Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? David wrote: And for this I am grateful. The world tends to go sideways when Germany has too many resources. I will castrate you. _________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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| Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:44 am |
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Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm
Posts: 11625
Location: Wouldn't you like to know
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Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? Dr. Lecter wrote: David wrote: And for this I am grateful. The world tends to go sideways when Germany has too many resources. I will castrate you. I will commit genocide to your dick Fixed _________________
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| Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:21 pm |
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Rev
Romosexual!
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:06 am
Posts: 32635
Location: the last free city
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Re: International spying: Germans "in bed with" NSA  Oh Germany 
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| Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:42 pm |
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