House of Flying Daggers vs. Hero vs. CTHD
House of Flying Daggers vs. Hero vs. CTHD
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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 House of Flying Daggers vs. Hero vs. CTHD
Well, when Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon came out and amazed audiences as well as reviewers, ended up as the highest-grossing foreign movie at the US-box-office and scored ten Oscar nominations, it has launched a wave of martial arts dramas from Asia. At first it was Hero that has been released by Miramax with a two-year delay and some months later, House of Flying Daggers has graced the US-screens.
Now I have seen Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and Hero so far and will probably be seeing House of Flying Daggers later this week or next week. These are my takes on them:
To be very honest, I find Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon pretty overrated. It is certainly not a bad movie and definitely not the worst to have been nominated for Best Picture, but it is nowhere among the best either in my opinion. When I first saw it in theatres I was pretty impressed, but ever since then, my opinion of the movie went down. I could never get into these flying, on-top-of-the-trees-fighting. At first it looked cool, certainly, but then it became pointless on further viewing. The movie has style, certainly, but it overcomes the substance and the overdone martial arts sometimes seem to undermine the good message of the movie. It si decent, but not a masterpiece by far in my opinion. I'd rate it with a B-.
Because of my not-so-great opinion of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, I was hesitant about seeing Hero, despite it getting praises left and right. When I finally wounded up and rented it some months ago, I didn't regret it. While, I don't consider the movie a masterpiece itself, it is certainly a technical masterpiece. The movie is beautifully filmed with amazing colors, sound and contrasts. The costumes, effects, art direction and editing are all superb. The score is wonderful as well. The fight scenes are very well-choreographed and seem not as over-the-top as in CTHD. This must be one of the most beautiful films I have ever seen. It is the epitome of technical perfection and for that fact alone, it has impressed me enough. The acting ranges from good (Tony Leung) to mediocre (Jet Li). The story, however, seems absent. This movie, to me, is the definition of style over substance. The screenplay is not worked-out very well and the story doesn't seem to have a point. Moreover, if you go into deeper analysis, it seems as if the movie glorifies the dictatorship and tyranny, but without getting into this, it is still not a perfect movie itself, despite the incredible technical achievementt. I'd give it a strong B.
Now I am looking forward to House of Flying Daggers which is according to many, even better than Hero and I am waiting to be impressed. Visually, I can hardly imagine it looking more beautigul than Hero, so what I want is an improvement in the screenplay.
Now that I have rambled long enough, I want to hear some of your opinions. Which one of the three do you prefer and why?
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:33 am |
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dolcevita
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm Posts: 16061 Location: The Damage Control Table
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Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon hands down. There is no contest here. Hero received the lowest grade for me out of any movie last year, and House of Flying Daggers was only marginally better, a C+ to Hero's C-. I would probably have given Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon an A- .
The reason why, barring the politically offensive content of Hero, is that CTHD was actually about something. It was about this sword, and the art form of fighting, and somehow the star-crossed lovers theme sat better with me. The problem with HOFD is that once they "flee" its just ten minute scene after ten minute scene (with only about two minutes in between each one) of them fighting the men off. Its not good for any character building or suspense. Its just, cross a field, fight, walk down the road, fight, get to another field, fight, walk through the woods, fight. So yes, Crouching tiger was infinately better than the other two.
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:40 am |
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addr0ck
Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:41 am Posts: 464
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Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon has the passion and majesty that the other two wish they had.
Hero and House of Flying Daggers are movies about their cinematography.
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:41 am |
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makeshift
Teenage Dream
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:20 am Posts: 9247
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In the eternal words of Ja Rule... "It aint even a question"
CTHD, hands down.
Hero is the second best, but it's a huge gap between the two because of Hero's sickening political overtones.
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:45 am |
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kypade
Kypade
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 7908
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CTHD
HoFD
Hero
but l like em all. so.
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:46 am |
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dolcevita
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm Posts: 16061 Location: The Damage Control Table
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Kypade wrote: CTHD HoFD Hero
but l like em all. so.
My exact order, but I didn't. Makeshift, I'm still baffled by people's adherence to Hero having better cinematography than HOFD. I thought 1. The scenes were Ziyi dances with the drums was excellent, and 2. The group fighting scenes, which Hero has none, were actually more visually striking than the one-on-one stuff in Hero where everyone else was just standing around watching in a circle.
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:49 am |
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Goldie
Forum General
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:38 pm Posts: 7286 Location: TOP*SECRET ******************** ******************** ******************** ********************
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Tiger/Dragon easily, no contest.
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:51 am |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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I haven't seen HOFD, but I really can hardly imagine it having an even better cinematography than Hero's absolutely superb one
The scenes with the arrows and the leaves fight
Hmm, maybe I need to watch CTHD again... 
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:52 am |
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makeshift
Teenage Dream
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:20 am Posts: 9247
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dolcevita wrote: Kypade wrote: CTHD HoFD Hero
but l like em all. so. My exact order, but I didn't. Makeshift, I'm still baffled by people's adherence to Hero having better cinematography than HOFD. I thought 1. The scenes were Ziyi dances with the drums was excellent, and 2. The group fighting scenes, which Hero has none, were actually more visually striking than the one-on-one stuff in Hero where everyone else was just standing around watching in a circle.
I honestly thought that the cinematography in both films was about equal. They both had a strikingly similar look, so it's hard to differentiate the two in my book. If I had to pick one, i'd probably actually give the edge to Hero. It was a little bit sharper.
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:52 am |
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zingy
College Boy Z
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:40 pm Posts: 36662
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After seeing Hero a second time...
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon hands down. I haven't seen House of Flying Daggers, but I don't think it's better than CTHD.
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: B
Hero: C+
House of Flying Daggers: We'll find out in April
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:53 am |
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Andrew
Lover of Bacon
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:05 pm Posts: 4197 Location: Sherwood Forest, UK
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Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon is my favourite of these three without question. It's a close call between the other two but i would have to put Hero second simply for the cinematography, the 'arrow' scenes and the fight in the leaves were simply stunning. I do however have to try and ignore the politics behind the film, something which isn't easily done. I thought house of Flying Daggers was the weakest, while it looked pretty there was no flow to the film and no real resolution, i left slightly disappointed.
_________________ ... and there's something about this city today, like all the colours conspired to overwhelm the grey...
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:10 pm |
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xiayun
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:41 pm Posts: 25109 Location: San Mateo, CA
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Crouching Tiger is certainly my favorite. One thing it stands above almost all other martial-art films is its story. I'm quite impressed with House of Flying Daggers as well, but CTHD sticks with me, as I'm still humming its haunting score. Hero comes in third.
_________________Recent watched movies: American Hustle - B+ Inside Llewyn Davis - B Before Midnight - A 12 Years a Slave - A- The Hunger Games: Catching Fire - A- My thoughts on box office
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:04 pm |
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Riggs
We had our time together
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:36 am Posts: 13299 Location: Vienna
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I'm going to see House of Flying Daggers tonight. I have no big expectations since I don't really like CTHD. But we'll see..
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:42 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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I am seeing House of Flying Daggers in my second-run theatre tonight as well. More on it later! 
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:01 pm |
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Riggs
We had our time together
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:36 am Posts: 13299 Location: Vienna
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WOW! Was really surprised by Daggers. A- loved Ziyi!!
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:04 pm |
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Neostorm
All Star Poster
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:48 pm Posts: 4684 Location: Toronto
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Wasn't the story really surprising?? I was not expecting a romeo and juliet-like story 
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:21 pm |
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Michael.
No Wire Tampons!
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:27 am Posts: 23283
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One of my favourite genres Crouching Tiger gets my coveted A+ grade and is one of my top 5 favourites ever.
Wonderful in every aspect.
Hero gets an A from me and is in my top 20 of all time http://naturalflux7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1177
whilst ive not seen Daggers yet ; i surely will as soon as it hits dvd
_________________ I'm out.
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:53 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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Well, I finally saw House of Flying Daggers tonight and I unfortunately, I have to admit I wasn't very impressed. As I have expected the visuals of Hero weren't exceeded, even though I have to admit that Zhang Ziyi's "dancing" scenes in the beginning of the movie as well as her following fight with Andy Lau were breathtaking and by far the best scenes in the entire film.
The cinematography was good, as expected and so were all technical aspects of the movie, but rarely have they reached the level of perfection that Hero has achieved in my opinion. The acting was average with merely Zhang Ziyi being a highlight. She truly delivers her career-best in this film. I was surprised by how mediocre Andy Lau was in this movie, especially since I really liked him in Infernal Affairs. The screenplay was more developed than Hero's, but not in the right way, as I thought. The whole menage á trois angle of the film came very unexpected and initially it is a good idea, but wasn't worked-out well enough. Zhang Ziyi and Takeshi Kaneshiro lack chemistry and that is fatal in such a film.
What has annoyed me the most was the fact that the big battle between the Flying Daggers and the General's army was hinted and one'd expect a big showdown or at least to get to know how it all turned out, but there is nada. We are left in the dark. I think, focusing a bit more on that part of the story, couldn't have hurt.
Overall, it is a decent film with many flaws which all lie in the screenplay/direction department. The technical aspects are, as expected, almost flawless, even though nothing I haven't seen before in CTHD[/b or [b]Hero. The movie deserved an Oscar nomination for Best Costumesand Best Art Direction and it's a shame that it didn't get these. I'd grade the flick B-.
Looking back at the three films, I have to say, that overall, I couldn't get into this type of film, even though I tried. All of them lack too much substance and make up for it with style. Style that is very impressive, though. Hero has definitely come out as my favorite of the three because of its sheer visual beauty. This is how I'd rank them:
1. Hero
2. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
3. House of Flying Daggers
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:14 pm |
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Bell
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:02 am Posts: 1906 Location: Middle Of Nowhere
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CTHD
HoFD
Hero
that's how i lined up those 3 movies.
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Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:55 am |
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Bell
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:02 am Posts: 1906 Location: Middle Of Nowhere
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Riggs27 wrote: WOW! Was really surprised by Daggers. A- loved Ziyi!!
i knew you gonna love it, bro.
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Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:55 am |
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Bell
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:02 am Posts: 1906 Location: Middle Of Nowhere
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Dr. Lecter wrote: Well, I finally saw House of Flying Daggers tonight and I unfortunately, I have to admit I wasn't very impressed. As I have expected the visuals of Hero weren't exceeded, even though I have to admit that Zhang Ziyi's "dancing" scenes in the beginning of the movie as well as her following fight with Andy Lau were breathtaking and by far the best scenes in the entire film.
The cinematography was good, as expected and so were all technical aspects of the movie, but rarely have they reached the level of perfection that Hero has achieved in my opinion. The acting was average with merely Zhang Ziyi being a highlight. She truly delivers her career-best in this film. I was surprised by how mediocre Andy Lau was in this movie, especially since I really liked him in Infernal Affairs. The screenplay was more developed than Hero's, but not in the right way, as I thought. The whole menage á trois angle of the film came very unexpected and initially it is a good idea, but wasn't worked-out well enough. Zhang Ziyi and Takeshi Kaneshiro lack chemistry and that is fatal in such a film.
What has annoyed me the most was the fact that the big battle between the Flying Daggers and the General's army was hinted and one'd expect a big showdown or at least to get to know how it all turned out, but there is nada. We are left in the dark. I think, focusing a bit more on that part of the story, couldn't have hurt.
Overall, it is a decent film with many flaws which all lie in the screenplay/direction department. The technical aspects are, as expected, almost flawless, even though nothing I haven't seen before in CTHD[/b or [b]Hero. The movie deserved an Oscar nomination for Best Costumesand Best Art Direction and it's a shame that it didn't get these. I'd grade the flick B-.
Looking back at the three films, I have to say, that overall, I couldn't get into this type of film, even though I tried. All of them lack too much substance and make up for it with style. Style that is very impressive, though. Hero has definitely come out as my favorite of the three because of its sheer visual beauty. This is how I'd rank them:
1. Hero 2. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon 3. House of Flying Daggers
well Lecter, Andy Lau's performance in HoFD doesn't count as a leading actor, he is more like supporting actor. so i can understand why he is mediocre, because the lead actor is Takeshi Kaneshiro. but in Infernal Affairs Andy is the leading actor. and yes i do loved his performances very much in Infernal Affairs too. i've already seen over 100 movies of him and it was hard and rare to find him plays his character in a movie perfectly like he did in Infernal Affairs.
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Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:02 am |
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Levy
Golfaholic
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:06 pm Posts: 16054
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CTHD!
Hero is just a stupid propaganda movie for tyranny and the death penalty...
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Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:25 am |
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Bell
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:02 am Posts: 1906 Location: Middle Of Nowhere
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Levy wrote: CTHD!
Hero is just a stupid propaganda movie for tyranny and the death penalty...
i hated it too.
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Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:27 am |
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xXVincentxX
La Bella Vito
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:56 pm Posts: 9146
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Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was a breathtaking experience for me. I was so enthralled by the martial arts, and the beautiful cinematography. The story was also very good, and I just love everything about this movie. This was when I first became a Ziyi Zhang fan, she's so beautiful, and talented. I would definitely give this film an A.
Hero is pretty good, but lacks what CTHD had going for it. The fighting sequences are good, but nothing spectacular. The story is very confusing at times, and at the end of the film I really didn't understand it, but it was entertaining, and only reached A status when the beautiful Ziyi Zhang was on screen. I would give this one a B-.
House Of Flying Daggers I have not seen, so I cannot comment on it, but I will see it only because I love these kinds of movies, and my honey Ziyi Zhang.
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Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:22 am |
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Bell
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:02 am Posts: 1906 Location: Middle Of Nowhere
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PinkPanther wrote: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was a breathtaking experience for me. I was so enthralled by the martial arts, and the beautiful cinematography. The story was also very good, and I just love everything about this movie. This was when I first became a Ziyi Zhang fan, she's so beautiful, and talented. I would definitely give this film an A.
Hero is pretty good, but lacks what CTHD had going for it. The fighting sequences are good, but nothing spectacular. The story is very confusing at times, and at the end of the film I really didn't understand it, but it was entertaining, and only reached A status when the beautiful Ziyi Zhang was on screen. I would give this one a B-.
House Of Flying Daggers I have not seen, so I cannot comment on it, but I will see it only because I love these kinds of movies, and my honey Ziyi Zhang.
i thought Angelina was your honey? but oh well, you had lots of honey. 
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Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:02 am |
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