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Riggs
We had our time together
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:36 am Posts: 13299 Location: Vienna
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Shack wrote: Quote: January may be cold and without notable holidays (Martin Luther King day weekend is irrelevant to Canadians), but one thing I like doing this month is running through 2012 films I haven’t seen yet. Screeners from late 2012 films released to try and get Oscar nominations also usually begin to pop up online. Thus it’s a good time to go on a run of them.
I saw Zero Dark Thirty on one of these screeners. And I was surprised at how little I liked it. In fact it may be my least favorite film of 2012.
Zero Dark Thirty’s ambition is to feel real. It wants to sit in on the manhunt for Osama Bin Laden with no heroes or villains or political message, instead just stating here’s what happened. Case in point, its aesthetic is a cold “naturalistic” docu-drama look. It goes out of its way to avoid the storytelling highs and lows and dramatization of most political thrillers.
A problem I have with this is that the film in fact fails to feel like reality. The script and supporting characters are often stagey. The CIA members play like they do in most TV shows, barking in raised voices about following orders and the impossibility of the task we know Jessica Chastain’s character will eventually accomplish. The terrorists are played in a similarly one-noted way. Compounding this is the surprisingly high amount of actors in the film known to most people for their TV roles – such as Kyle Chandler of Friday Night Lights, James Gandolfini of the Sopranos, Chris Pratt of Parks and Rec, Harold Perrineau of Lost. Putting these stagey, TV like performances in a film otherwise attempting to document reality, undermined much of that attempt to me. But most damaging to the film’s attempt to create a real look at the manhunt, is the treatment of Chastain’s character Maya. A decision is clearly made to play Maya as a character numb to emotion or normal human enjoyment, as a singularly focused Bin Laden hunter. The obsession with this hunt is supposed to have zapped her humanity. But the inability for Chastain to feel like real human being, goes directly against the film’s attempt to feel like a real and natural document of this manhunt. It was nearly impossible for me to believe I was watching a real person during Chastain’s performance. Making a character less than real to push a thematic message (in this case, the numbing effect of obsession) is something I don’t have a problem with, the issue is that it’s directly juxtaposed against a film that otherwise seems to want to be real and a naturalistic document.
To its credit, Zero Dark Thirty does start with an superbly executed torture scene, for which it’s drawing controversy. The heart of this scene is Jason Clarke who in my opinion has the best character and role in the film, as a torturer on the verge of losing his soul after the acts he’s committed. Unfortunately Clarke is sparsely used after the first act and the film suffers for it.
A fascinating contrast to Zero Dark Thirty is the film Argo. Argo is the anti-Zero Dark Thirty. It relishes dramatizing its story and plot, making larger than life leads and side characters, making its characters likeable enough that the audience cheers for their success. Stagey side characters such as Bryan Cranston or John Goodman’s roles in the film, fit perfectly because Argo knows it is a film. It attempts to entertain its audience and not pretend to be a real document. Zero Dark Thirty is a much less entertaining and engrossing film because of its specific decision to avoid dramatizing its plot and characters. It basically says “This is art, fuck entertaining casual audiences”. This would be fine if it achieved its goal of being a terrifically natural and real document of the events, but to me it doesn’t succeed at that either. Thus Zero Dark Thirty ends up being a film that neither has its cake or eats it. It neither feels real nor is it engrossing a film. I found it then to be an overlong bore that lay dead with no pulse the vast majority of its running time. Argo is not a perfect film, but I’d prefer it over Zero Dark Thirty every day. If Argo is a well produced, catchy pop song, Zero Dark Thirty is an angsty song on acoustic guitar by an open mic songwriter who believes they are more artistically significant than the “shallow” pop artists. The problem with this angsty song is that it lacks any hook or life making it enjoyable to listen to. Compounding this is that not only is it no fun to listen to, it contains no more depth or creativity than the pop song anyways, if not less than it.
http://jrodgermoviereviews.wordpress.co ... elow-2012/Well, pretty much my thoughts put in better words.  Agree especially with the bolded part.
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Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:54 am |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 23385 Location: Melbourne Australia
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
I now know what to vote for in the KJ awards!!!
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:49 am |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 23385 Location: Melbourne Australia
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Best film of the year.
Love everything about it - especially the investigation aspects. If anything, Maya's quest reminded me of Zodiac another film I love. Chastain is superb (and stunning) but I'd say its Clarke who steels the show. Better than the already very good Hurt Locker and better than Argo (even though im a fan) . Bigelow should have been nominated and won for directing this.
A+
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:23 pm |
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jmovies
Let's Call It A Bromance
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:22 pm Posts: 12333
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
The Hurt Locker is a better film when comparing the two.
This movie isn't bad, it is actually pretty good most of the time. However, outside of the first 45 minutes, it doesn't become anything special. It essentially just becomes a basic "get the bad guy" movie with extra dialogue. Chastain is very good though and the film is shot very well.
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Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:36 pm |
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Barrabás
llegó a la casa vía marítima
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:53 pm Posts: 6331 Location: la gran casa de la esquina
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
I am just amazed, AMAZED, that this film presents a bunch of ultra-privileged white Americans as brutalizing and torturing middle eastern people with no trial, no criminal proceedings, barely any evidence and then expects us to feel any kind of empathy for them for doing so (as if they were the victims) and presents them as the heroes. Kathryn Bigelow has a really fucked up mind.
_________________ .
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:36 am |
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Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Barrabás wrote: Kathryn Bigelow has a really fucked up mind. That's not really fair - - she's just doing her job. Without mercenaries like her, the whole propaganda industry might collapse!
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:53 am |
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David
Pure Phase
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:33 am Posts: 34865 Location: Maryland
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
You are allowing what is clearly a hatred of America, especially "privileged" Americans, to cloud your vision because this is a clear eyed, procedure centric, and objective examination of the manhunt. It does not glorify any of the violence nor is it a condemning sermon. It simply says, "Here is our best cinematic recreation of what transpired, and you can judge for yourself if the end result justifies the various means and methods."
_________________   1. The Lost City of Z - 2. A Cure for Wellness - 3. Phantom Thread - 4. T2 Trainspotting - 5. Detroit - 6. Good Time - 7. The Beguiled - 8. The Florida Project - 9. Logan and 10. Molly's Game
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:32 am |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Magnus once again, is wrong.
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:47 am |
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Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
David wrote: You are allowing what is clearly a hatred of America, especially "privileged" Americans, to cloud your vision because this is a clear eyed, procedure centric, and objective examination of the manhunt. It does not glorify any of the violence nor is it a condemning sermon. It simply says, "Here is our best cinematic recreation of what transpired, and you can judge for yourself if the end result justifies the various means and methods." Speaking of clouded vision, that is an surprisingly unsophisticated view of the state of the art in modern propaganda. ...and what's that bit about '"privileged" Americans' all about?
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:49 am |
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Argos
Z
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:20 pm Posts: 7952 Location: Wherever he went, including here, it was against his better judgment.
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Chippy wrote: Magnus once again, is wrong. You Americans suck at placing commas.
_________________ "Der Lebenslauf des Menschen besteht darin, dass er, von der Hoffnung genarrt, dem Tod in die Arme tanzt." - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:28 pm |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Argos wrote: Chippy wrote: Magnus, once again, is wrong. You Americans suck at placing commas. Better?
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:48 pm |
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Argos
Z
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:20 pm Posts: 7952 Location: Wherever he went, including here, it was against his better judgment.
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Chippy wrote: Argos wrote: Chippy wrote: Magnus, once again, is wrong. You Americans suck at placing commas. Better? Yes: two or none.
_________________ "Der Lebenslauf des Menschen besteht darin, dass er, von der Hoffnung genarrt, dem Tod in die Arme tanzt." - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:53 pm |
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David
Pure Phase
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:33 am Posts: 34865 Location: Maryland
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Bradley Witherberry wrote: ...and what's that bit about '"privileged" Americans' all about? Barrabás strangely describing the main characters here as "ultra-privileged," which has to indicate a strange, seething hangup within him because they are mostly mid-level civil servants.
_________________   1. The Lost City of Z - 2. A Cure for Wellness - 3. Phantom Thread - 4. T2 Trainspotting - 5. Detroit - 6. Good Time - 7. The Beguiled - 8. The Florida Project - 9. Logan and 10. Molly's Game
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:14 pm |
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David
Pure Phase
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:33 am Posts: 34865 Location: Maryland
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Magnus wrote: Argos wrote: Chippy wrote: Magnus once again, is wrong. You Americans suck at placing commas. You Germans suck at winning world wars. They excel at novelty lampshades, though.
_________________   1. The Lost City of Z - 2. A Cure for Wellness - 3. Phantom Thread - 4. T2 Trainspotting - 5. Detroit - 6. Good Time - 7. The Beguiled - 8. The Florida Project - 9. Logan and 10. Molly's Game
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:15 pm |
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Webslinger
why so serious?
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:24 pm Posts: 4110 Location: Stuck In A Moment I Can't Get Out Of
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Barrabás wrote: I am just amazed, AMAZED, that this film presents a bunch of ultra-privileged white Americans as brutalizing and torturing middle eastern people with no trial, no criminal proceedings, barely any evidence and then expects us to feel any kind of empathy for them for doing so (as if they were the victims) and presents them as the heroes. Kathryn Bigelow has a really fucked up mind. Seriously? There's so little examination of the morality of what the characters do that I did not get the impression that Bigelow was presenting them as heroes. It's a lot like The Hurt Locker in that, at least on the surface, it's trying to present the characters and situations for what they are, as opposed to making any sort of explicit, overt political commentary - which is exactly what weakened virtually every single movie made about the war on terror that Bigelow and Boal weren't involved with. I especially didn't get the sense that we were necessarily supposed to see Maya as a hero. The conversation she has at the restaurant before it gets bombed makes it clear that she lives an empty life outside of her job, and Chastain does a perfect job of capturing this "okay, it's over, so what do I do now?" look in the final shot. If anything, she comes across as someone who is so obsessed with her job that she doesn't see the toll it takes on herself or others unless someone close to her gets killed. That's the same sense I got from many of the characters: they're so afflicted with tunnel-vision that they're not thinking about the personal or societal ramifications of what they're doing. I don't think Bigelow or Boal mean for us to see them as heroes, but rather as people who are doing a job in a dark, violent world. Whether that's admirable, abominable, or somewhere in between is up to the viewer to decide.
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Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:59 pm |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 68372
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Zero Dark Thirty
Great performances by Jessica Chastain, Jason Clarke and Mark Strong (especially so). The film is just fantastic. It has a nice pace (could have been faster at times) and the story is very interesting and edge-of-seat exciting. The ending is gripping, as is the entire film. Better than The Hurt Locker. Very similar to Homeland, which I also loved.
B+
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Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:12 am |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 23385 Location: Melbourne Australia
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Magnus wrote: Magnus wrote: Only thing I remember is "Osama...Osama", Dan feeding the monkeys, "I'm the mother fucker" line, and Chastain giving the same dull look throughout the entire movie.
this still remains true. i have zero memory of this film outside these moments I disagree - the film is brilliant. However, I was at an all day bucks party (bachelor party) and we were half tanked when one of the guys mentioned this film. I said it was great etc but the only thing I recall mentioning was the "Osama Osama" bit. I thought it was hilarious so must have been pretty wasted.
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What's your favourite movie summer? Let us know @
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Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:52 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 68372
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 Re: Zero Dark Thirty
I forgot to mention that Scott Adkins is in this, lol, trying to act.
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Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:36 pm |
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