.....what do you think will happen?

Personally I think China is underestimating how the US would react.

If there is a WW3 in the coming years, this is how it would start so I'm curious what you guys think would happen.

I bring it up because China passed a law recently saying that if Taiwan ever seccedes, it will attack it. Of course, Taiwan is already essentially an independent country so the law is kind of silly in its wording.

my girlfriend lives over there. something i dread every single day.

Well, I kinda disagree. I think thats the hidden agenda here, I think China not only doesn't want to be different than USA, but create a big conflict. Now the question comes up: Why in hell do they want this? Answer: Because China wants to be the most powerful country in the world, the whole system and thinking of this country is built up with the ulterior motive to be the #1 and not just #2 or #3. China is the country which has the highest expansion rate of all big countries in the world and I think some people still underestimate it. :???:

I might be out on a limb here, but I believe that if there will be a WW3 once, you can be sure that China could be a problem for us!

Screw just a problem, if there is a WWIII we will all be fucked. Inevitably, nukes will be used in mass doses.

Jon .. why dont you all enlighten us with your carefully planned strategic warfare strategy with China .. i'm sure the rest of the peopel want to be as entertained as i was.

and dont skip the part about the parachuters over beijing .. that was priceless.

What was that old marxian expression? that capitalism would sell the noose to hang itself? That goes through my mind sometimes when I read about the huge western investments in China, it's like we're building our own enemy.

Everything I've learned about PRC military might, I've learned from Tom Clancy novels.

Heh, I don't know if you are kidding or serious. I've never read a Tom Clancy novel.

Bit of both, Tom Clancy knows a lot about virtual battlegrounds and what a full scale assault on Taiwan by China would look like and what the US response would be.

China is spending billions of dollars to increase it's miliary force. Personally, if the Bush doctrine is based on preemption, I don't see the point of waiting for China to finish building its forces. PRC will go after Taiwan. Whether it's tomorrow or in 3 years, it will happen.

The only question is what will the US response be. And will South Korea and Japan side with the US or watch by the sidelines until the conflict bleeds onto their shores.

If there were a WW3 make no mistake there wont be any winners.

To us, yes, but not to them.

Samweis, China's growth is impressive, but in terms of Real GDP, the most optimistic growth would put China's GDP in 2025 at $7.2 Trillion, vs. $21 Trillion for America. For a country of 1.3B, that's not as impressive as it may sound. Plus, there is rampant corruption, social inequality (hah!), desertification and other consequences of severe pollution, a male-female population imbalance, and much else to deal with.


The GDP says nothing of America's supremacy in arts, culture, and other various global and international institutions.

Sometimes, I think people underestimate the US. No, really. No other country comes even close. The EU combined barely matches it in GDP terms (although in 2004, the US pushed ahead due to stronger growth, I believe). Militarily, the US is way ahead, and in terms of technology and innovative spirit, the rest can bite the dust.

:razz:

Whoever Wins, We Lose

yeah yeah yeah

can't believe paul anderson actually created a saying ....

*remove's box's canadian citizenship* TSkkkkkk... Canada is secretly the puppetteer of the US. Box never inflate their ego.

Lol, neo...


But honestly, a Chinese-controlled world would be much worse than what we have with America as the leading power. It's currently hip to bitch about the US (often for good reason), but consider China's history, and think of how it would act as a leading power.


China has not only always seen itself as being the centre of the world, but as the world, period. The idea of a cultural, economic, and social world dominance is something which is only too natural for a country that sees itself as being at the middle of the earth.

The best comparison I see is with Europe and its eurocentrism, where Europe stands at the centre, and everything else surrounds it. If you want to proof, look no further than here:

http://images.google.ca/images?q=world+ ... art=0&sa=N


What do those maps have in common? Europe is at the centre of all of them. There is no reason why the Atlantic should occupy the central map area, and not the Pacific.

One of the best criteria you can use to determine China's influence is the shift in the way maps are drawn. It's very possible that more and more maps will place the Pacific, with the US in the east and China in the west, at the centre. Europe could find itself at the fringes.

PRC (world's largest army) has held joint military exercises with Russia (world's largest oil producer). Add Syria, Iran, and North Korea to the mix (unless China takes over the Korean peninsula) and United States is facing quite a mess when things finally escalate.

US has Canada \:D/ and our defective helicopters

And if Canada ever tries to secede, we will invade!

You have tried at least two times and we have defeated you guys [-( We have the world's biggest nuclear bomb... and for all these years you just though the CN was the worlds largest phallic symbol. [-X

we needed the help of natives and american loyalists but you don't have to know that

North Korea's is the second largest army in the world. So what? Their equipment is of piss-poor quality, and they are malnourished anyways. China's is better off, obviously, but they have a long, long, long way to go to match America's.

The Chinese military is large, but size is not everything. The US has scaled back and done so consciously in order to place quality over quantity. What they did in Iraq in 2003 was mind-blowing. It is probably the single most successful military assault ever attempted. If it weren't for that horrendous aftermath (which I'm not sure was all that unintentional), the war would have been considered a great success.

Militarily, the US could not be happier. They have shown themselves to be years, maybe decades, ahead of China or anyone else. An article in 2003 in the NYT mentioned how shocked Chinese officials were about America's technology as showcased during the 2003 Iraq war. The thing is, the $420B spending is in part going to the development and betterment of an already incredible military machine. China's $70B is a large sum, but it's not even close to being a match.

As for Syria and Iran, the US has Israel. Obviously, if Israel participates, the whole situation will be seen as a masterplan by Jews and their friends as an attempt to take over the Middle East, but you're providing us with an extreme situation, and that being so, Israel would be a formidable ally.

Oh, and btw, I expect Japan to increase militay spending and activity. They do not like watching China usurp their throne in Asia. And the two countries have never made peace since WW2 (for good reason; Japan's treatment of the Chinese rivals that of the Nazis of their victims).

If anything, I personally find the Chinese the most dangerous force in the world. In term's of sheer military size, we all know the PRC army is huge. I don't want to think of what a Chinese invasion of Japan, Taiwen, or all of Asia could be like. Ofcourse, this isn't 1850 and we have nukes.... which makes it even worse. The entire world could end pretty damn fast. Something has to be done, and I don't think anyone knows what that solution is.....

Even with new battleship carrier groups, longer ranged missile capabilities, and larger armored mechanized units, China can't stand toe to toe with Uncle Sam.

That said, one thing China and other countries have learned from 9/11 is that the US doesn't have the stomach for war on their own soil. If you want to beat the US, bring the war to them.

Well, since we're going along with What Ifs... What if the Chinese staged a massive invasion of the West Coast? As unlikely as it may be, I still get shivers at the thought of it. If the Chinese transported, say, a million or two troops to California, would the US Goverment be willing to use Chemical or Nuclear weapons to stop them? How would they? Scary thought, really. I know they would never be successful in getting past Hawaii, but the thought is unnerving considering their manpower.

Btw, there is one way in which China could be the next superpower (or mega-power), and do so without a world war: become a democracy.


The Chinese are already moving towards it. It's close to impossible to imagine the system as it is working two decades from now.


If it does become a democracy, then you better start learning Mandarin :razz: The Chinese as a nation are absolutely brilliant. If you combine their culture with Western-style economics and entrepeneurship (not as hard for those to be compatible as you might think), you will end up with something like Japan, but ten times bigger. China is the only country in the world that has the capacity to shift the global civilization towards its direction, the East. The US obviously hasn't done it, since it was in many ways a European outgrowth that established an indentity by combining the European with the Global. China's dominance would usher in a completely different way of looking at things. But it needs to individual Chinese man and woman to take centre-stage. They're the ones who will do it, not the government. If it does become a democracy, best of luck to them. It'll be good to have 2 democracies duking it out. Whoever wins, we will too :razz:

Taken from: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1331228/posts
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China has created brand-new form of capitalism: Bill Gates
DAVOS, Switzerland, (AFP) - US software giant Bill Gates has high praise for China, which he says has created a brand-new form of capitalism that benefits consumers more than anything has in the past.

"It is a brand-new form of capitalism, and as a consumer its the best thing that ever happened," Gates told an informal meeting late Friday at the World Economic Forum in this ski resort.

He characterised the Chinese model in terms of "willingness to work hard and not having quite the same medical overhead or legal overhead".

Manufacturers have created "scale economies that are just phenomenal", in part owing to companies there and elsewhere on the planet designing good products, Gates said.

Looking ahead, he added: "You know they haven't run out of labor yet, the portion that can come out of the agriculture sector" was still considerable.

"It's not like Korea, Korea got to a point where, boom, the wages went up a lot," he said, adding "that's good, you know, they got rich and now they have to add value at a different level.

"They're closer to the United States in that sense than they are to where China is right now."

Gates continued by heaping praise on the current generation of Chinese leaders.

"They're smart," he said with emphasis.

"They have this mericratic way of picking people for these government posts where you rotate into the university and really think about state allocation of resources and the welfare of the country and then you rotate back into some bureaucratic position."

That rotation continued, Gates explained, and leaders were constantly subjected to various kinds of ratings.

"This generation of leaders is so smart, so capable, from the top down, particularly from the top down," he concluded.
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kind of relevant to the discussion.