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MovieDude
Where will you be?
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:50 am Posts: 11675
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 Re: Sucker Punch
Instead of trying to convince people to stop taking a collective shit on Sucker Punch, the latest pariah of the cineplex, I'll just try and quickly summarize why I think it's being treated unfairly.
Firstly, it seems like people have a hard time accepting the movie is total fantasy. Although there are layered worlds that seem to go deeper into someone's head, from the very first shot director Zach Snyder establishes that the whole movie is a big, fat illusion. So complaining that the action scenes have no consequence on the real world seems like a false criticism. For my part, I found some of the big set pieces to get a bit repetitive, but they're frequently exhilirating. The one-shot take where about two dozen robots get ripped apart was particularly breath taking. In most movies I don't think the hero is suddenly going to get two bullets to the chest and collapse, but I'm still riveted by the action scenes if they're well staged. And some of the action set pieces here are simply phenomenal. I do think though that internet-based movie fans, who have been drip fed images of this movie for almost a year, may have felt they had seen it all already. I don't think that's entirely the filmmakers fault as much as the nature of the game these days.
There's a big assumption that the film is anti-feminist because the women in the film are brutalized and subjugated by men. And yes, Sucker Punch's premise is distinctly unpleasant. A young woman gets wrongfully put in a mental institution and is scheduled to be lobotomized by the corrupt chief of staff. I think that films that blatantly show women being sexually exploited are much harder to watch than the casual subjugation we see in 95% of Hollywood cinema. And while the film is somewhat sloppy with its post feminist empowerment, there are some interesting things going on. Originally Sucker Punch was going to be a musical, as hinted in the big song and dance sequence in the end credits. Now I'd argue anyone that gives the visual-genius but rather tone deaf director Zach Snyder the free license to make a musical is asking for trouble. What ends up happening is that every time Baby Doll starts dancing, we dissapear into her mind and the phantasmagorical worlds where she fights dragons, zombie nazis and other silly monsters. It's not reaching very deep to note that this could be interpreted as her (and perhaps the other girls) fighting their demons, whether internal or in a type of wish-fulfillment. What's cool is that by never seeing these seductive dances, the viewer is denied the dominant male gaze we feel so entitled to. Maybe that's why people got pissed off that the film keeps cutting away from the "real" scenes of people stealing mundane objects. Granted the women of the film are still dressed in sexual clothes, but the heightened action scenes are happening on their terms, not those of their subjugators. Denying the viewer a good look at the women of the film when they are at their most exploited or vulnerable is especially present in the semi-final scene of the film, and I think it works really well. Actually, I kind of loved the ending. I won't argue about the narration over the ending being a bit much (I'd have ended it at "...you. not ... fight!") but I actually thought it was very empowering. One person's good deed can make a world of difference to someone, even if it's not the individual they're helping out. That's a nice message in our globalized, often cold-hearted world.
Now for some people, the sisterhood angle will be cheesy, the action scenes annoying, and the entire enterprise way too strange and muddled for them to enjoy. That's fine, but I'm happy to report that I am a big fan of Sucker Punch, warts and all.
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Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:42 am |
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publicenemy#1
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:25 am Posts: 19444 Location: San Diego
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 Re: Sucker Punch
MovieDude wrote: Instead of trying to convince people to stop taking a collective shit on Sucker Punch, the latest pariah of the cineplex, I'll just try and quickly summarize why I think it's being treated unfairly.
Firstly, it seems like people have a hard time accepting the movie is total fantasy. Although there are layered worlds that seem to go deeper into someone's head, from the very first shot director Zach Snyder establishes that the whole movie is a big, fat illusion. So complaining that the action scenes have no consequence on the real world seems like a false criticism. For my part, I found some of the big set pieces to get a bit repetitive, but they're frequently exhilirating. The one-shot take where about two dozen robots get ripped apart was particularly breath taking. In most movies I don't think the hero is suddenly going to get two bullets to the chest and collapse, but I'm still riveted by the action scenes if they're well staged. And some of the action set pieces here are simply phenomenal. I do think though that internet-based movie fans, who have been drip fed images of this movie for almost a year, may have felt they had seen it all already. I don't think that's entirely the filmmakers fault as much as the nature of the game these days.
There's a big assumption that the film is anti-feminist because the women in the film are brutalized and subjugated by men. And yes, Sucker Punch's premise is distinctly unpleasant. A young woman gets wrongfully put in a mental institution and is scheduled to be lobotomized by the corrupt chief of staff. I think that films that blatantly show women being sexually exploited are much harder to watch than the casual subjugation we see in 95% of Hollywood cinema. And while the film is somewhat sloppy with its post feminist empowerment, there are some interesting things going on. Originally Sucker Punch was going to be a musical, as hinted in the big song and dance sequence in the end credits. Now I'd argue anyone that gives the visual-genius but rather tone deaf director Zach Snyder the free license to make a musical is asking for trouble. What ends up happening is that every time Baby Doll starts dancing, we dissapear into her mind and the phantasmagorical worlds where she fights dragons, zombie nazis and other silly monsters. It's not reaching very deep to note that this could be interpreted as her (and perhaps the other girls) fighting their demons, whether internal or in a type of wish-fulfillment. What's cool is that by never seeing these seductive dances, the viewer is denied the dominant male gaze we feel so entitled to. Maybe that's why people got pissed off that the film keeps cutting away from the "real" scenes of people stealing mundane objects. Granted the women of the film are still dressed in sexual clothes, but the heightened action scenes are happening on their terms, not those of their subjugators. Denying the viewer a good look at the women of the film when they are at their most exploited or vulnerable is especially present in the semi-final scene of the film, and I think it works really well. Actually, I kind of loved the ending. I won't argue about the narration over the ending being a bit much (I'd have ended it at "...you. not ... fight!") but I actually thought it was very empowering. One person's good deed can make a world of difference to someone, even if it's not the individual they're helping out. That's a nice message in our globalized, often cold-hearted world.
Now for some people, the sisterhood angle will be cheesy, the action scenes annoying, and the entire enterprise way too strange and muddled for them to enjoy. That's fine, but I'm happy to report that I am a big fan of Sucker Punch, warts and all.  I'm a fan of the movie as well. I can't wait for the director's cut, I hope it makes the movie better.
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Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:17 pm |
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movies35
Forum General
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:53 pm Posts: 8627 Location: Syracuse, NY
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 Re: Sucker Punch
I saw this twice opening weekend (once by choice, once not by choice) and I didn't really like it but in a way, I admire it. I absolutely adored the beginning and the music throughout and found the storyline to be interesting and the last half hour was very good. The problems with the movie are in the action scenes which are boring and a real chore to watch. I was so thankful when each action scene was over.  So it wasn't good, but admirable. 5/10
_________________ Top 10 Films of 2016
1. La La Land 2. Other People 3. Nocturnal Animals 4. Swiss Army Man 5. Manchester by the Sea 6. The Edge of Seventeen 7. Sing Street 8. Indignation 9. The Lobster 10. Hell or High Water
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Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:33 pm |
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Mau
100% That Bitch
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:42 pm Posts: 16923 Location: Monterrey, Mexico
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 Re: Sucker Punch
B+
This uis getting ripped apart and it's not fair. WTF were y'all expecting? some big epic Oscar movie?. No
The director promised hot chicks with guns and he delivered.
_________________ Tongue Pop!
I kneel with Magnus.
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Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:44 am |
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David
Pure Phase
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:33 am Posts: 34865 Location: Maryland
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 Re: Sucker Punch
The problem is: he made hot chicks with guns boring and blandly pretentious.
_________________   1. The Lost City of Z - 2. A Cure for Wellness - 3. Phantom Thread - 4. T2 Trainspotting - 5. Detroit - 6. Good Time - 7. The Beguiled - 8. The Florida Project - 9. Logan and 10. Molly's Game
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Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:59 am |
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Magic Mike
Wallflower
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:53 am Posts: 35248 Location: Minnesota
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 Re: Sucker Punch
Gunslinger wrote: The problem is: he made hot chicks with guns boring and blandly pretentious. Yep. I'd have been fine with fun and mindless, but the action scenes are a snooze. It opened really cool and the finale was decent, but those action scenes drag it waaaay down. I found myself hating it during them.
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Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:04 pm |
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Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
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 Re: Sucker Punch
Sci-Fi Psychodrama Psycho Opera Sucker Punch Subjugates Screen!You gotta hand it to this guy (Zack Snyder) - - he hoes his own row. Who else us doing this kinda movie these days? Neveldine & Taylor I suppose... but they're not taking on the musical form. Snyder actually threatens to challenge the supreme mastery of Moulin Rouge!, but backs off from summit of full-on MUSICAL. (Sadly, despite assiduously avoiding reading any reviews nor seeing a single trailer, I inadvertentedly read a spoiler saying - - a director's cut may restore musical/dance sequences - - which synchronously gave me both sadness at the incompleteness of this first run version, and hope in the chance that a complete version may one day be enjoyed. The whole crazy juxtaposition of Baby Doll's unseen dance numbers and the vision of ass-kickin' chick-commando glory is inspired (except for Scott Glenn who, uncharacteristically, sucked here). It's not your ordinary average googolplex movie - - it's got a dark, dark vibe and outright celebrates violence. Sucker Punch demonstrates an ability to achieve escape velocity but never quite gets to orbit. It's so close to great. 12 out of 5. (????? out of 5 - - Director's Cut.) PS: I particularly liked Jamie Chung's plucky performance as Amber! Then there was Jena Malone's ginger rocket Rocket and Emily Browning was solid in the challenging leading role of Baby Doll. Vanessa Hudgens did alright, but was clearly in over her head and Abbie Cornish didn't have any memorable material to work with.
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Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:10 am |
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zingy
College Boy Z
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:40 pm Posts: 36662
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 Re: Sucker Punch
I feel like I could have watched the movie on mute and it would have been about the same for me. It's just sweet stuff happening on the screen, but nothing to care about otherwise.
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Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:47 pm |
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trixster
loyalfromlondon
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:31 pm Posts: 19697 Location: ville-marie
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 Re: Sucker Punch
Nothing in this movie made any goddamn sense.
_________________Magic Mike wrote: zwackerm wrote: If John Wick 2 even makes 30 million I will eat 1,000 shoes. Same. Algren wrote: I don't think. I predict. 
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Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:27 pm |
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Flava'd vs The World
The Kramer
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:36 am Posts: 25427 Location: Classified
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 Re: Sucker Punch
Goofy movie and a sad way to follow up the excellent Watchmen, 300 and Dawn of the Dead.
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Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:43 pm |
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jmovies
Let's Call It A Bromance
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:22 pm Posts: 12333
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 Re: Sucker Punch
Mr. Zack Snyder continues his horrid track of pictures with his latest Sucker Punch. Really nothing in this movie ever comes together or quite makes sense. Why we never saw Baby Doll actually perform and just got these cheap "Zack Synder wants to do a random action scene now" bits I will never understand. The head of this whole facility is just some cliche creep and just tries to be some cool hard thug near the end. There is nothing special about the acting and all the fighting/action that goes on is not exhilarating and at times pretty laughable. I think the only positive I can give this film is that were some ok visuals but even they were overshadowed by Synder's boner love for slow motion. I really hope Nolan can set him straight and that Man of Steel is really good. 1/2*
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Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:20 pm |
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David
Pure Phase
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:33 am Posts: 34865 Location: Maryland
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 Re: Sucker Punch
"Dancing" = fucking, right?
_________________   1. The Lost City of Z - 2. A Cure for Wellness - 3. Phantom Thread - 4. T2 Trainspotting - 5. Detroit - 6. Good Time - 7. The Beguiled - 8. The Florida Project - 9. Logan and 10. Molly's Game
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Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:52 pm |
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jmovies
Let's Call It A Bromance
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:22 pm Posts: 12333
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 Re: Sucker Punch
Gunslinger wrote: "Dancing" = fucking, right? pretty much
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Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:54 pm |
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David
Pure Phase
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:33 am Posts: 34865 Location: Maryland
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 Re: Sucker Punch
So the answer to why we never saw her perform is: PG-13.
_________________   1. The Lost City of Z - 2. A Cure for Wellness - 3. Phantom Thread - 4. T2 Trainspotting - 5. Detroit - 6. Good Time - 7. The Beguiled - 8. The Florida Project - 9. Logan and 10. Molly's Game
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Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:56 pm |
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Jmart
Superman: The Movie
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:47 am Posts: 21230 Location: Massachusetts
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 Re: Sucker Punch
trixster wrote: Nothing in this movie made any goddamn sense. That pretty much says it all. I read somewhere that this was originally intended as a musical, which would explain the completely fucking random but actually surprisingly decent musical number (thanks to further reading at IMDB, it turns out there were five musical numbers cut from the film. That would've made much more sense with what I think Snyder was getting at (which is rough considering the film doesn't make any fucking sense). Instead based on what Browning said here (thanks again IMDB), Quote: I had an amazing time making that film, and I love Zack [Snyder] and I love those girls, and I think that, unfortunately, my intention for that film got muddled up in the way that... you know, because being a feminist, I can definitely see how if I wasn't connected to that film, I would have problems with it. But it's hard to be objective with it when it's something that you love and are a part of. [Zack's] message got mixed up with the studio's. We had to rewrite so many things, and the way it ended up being edited. It's tough for me, as I understand why it didn't quite work, in terms of the message I was hoping would come across. It looks like the studio freaked out that they weren't getting an action pack Snyder film like all his others and forced him to go back and replace those musical numbers with the action scenes in order to sell the movie to teenage boys, which is hilariously ironic. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think I would've preferred this as a musical instead of an action film. It at least would've made some sense. That's not to let Snyder off the hook though. He at least could've made the action feel more in line with his message. Then again the idea of the action scenes and using the girls as objects pretty much conflicts with what I think he was trying to get at. Instead we're left with this pile of shit that has some decent visuals (the third action scene with the train), but not much else. * (D)David wrote: So the answer to why we never saw her perform is: PG-13. David wrote: "Dancing" = fucking, right? As it turns out, nope. Nothing happens in the R-cut either. But I put these two quotes together because I think they go hand in hand. I think in the "real world" Blue has abused the girls with the help from the orderlies, with the exception of Baby Doll who he saves for last because she is a virgin (though he had his chance until she stabbed him, both in the "brothel" and in the "real world and then missed out when she was lobotomized which explains why he throws a hissy fit before he's arrested). The dancing (in the real world) I think represents a fuze between the therapy sessions with Gorski in which the girls face their abuse by Blue and others like the cook, and the girls having sex with the hospital workers in order to get the things they need to escape. Knowing that Baby Doll is a virgin, they use her as decoy to get the things they need while they fuck (or blow in the case of the cook; everyone is clothed, but we don't see what the two girls are doing down at his waist). I think this is why we never see her "perform". Meanwhile as they do this she's off in her dream world imagining those action scenes as a way to "fight" with what's going on around her. Why she would imagine fighting and not performing (though a sexist assumption, I think that's what Snyder was getting at with the musical numbers as that would be more "likely" as to what girls would imagine), I don't know. I think there are some interesting ideas going on here, but I think if Snyder was trying to make a feminist film he's failed miserably, and I'm not sure, now that I think about it, if that would be any different if this was either a musical or an action film. The bottom line is that one can pretty much infer that the girls are being abused, but are using that as an advantage in order to escape. I think it's troubling that the film is implying that women should use their sexuality as a weapon. Either that or something got muddled in the message.
_________________My DVD Collection Marty McGee (1989-2005)
If I’m not here, I’m on Letterboxd.
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Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:56 am |
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Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
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 Re: Sucker Punch
Jmart wrote: I think there are some interesting ideas going on here, but I think if Snyder was trying to make a feminist film he's failed miserably, and I'm not sure, now that I think about it, if that would be any different if this was either a musical or an action film. The bottom line is that one can pretty much infer that the girls are being abused, but are using that as an advantage in order to escape. I think it's troubling that the film is implying that women should use their sexuality as a weapon. Yow! It's difficult to enumerate all the ways your analysis is de-botched, but number one is surely your confusion of feminism with grrrl power.
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Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:32 am |
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Brian
Ocarina of Time
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:21 pm Posts: 7951 Location: Hyrule
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 Re: Sucker Punch
I think I've not graded this film yet
Saw it a couple of months ago again and thought it's even greater than the first time, knowing that Snyder's films tend to be very underrated, this one does not top Ga'Hoole. Scenes and main theme are unique
B+
_________________ Most Anticipated 2023
1. Super Mario Bros Movie 2. Rebel Moon 3. Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning Part 1 4. Oppenheimer 5. The Flash 6. Elemental 7. Aquaman 2 8. Dune Part 2 9. Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 10. Blue Beetle
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Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:55 pm |
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movies35
Forum General
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:53 pm Posts: 8627 Location: Syracuse, NY
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 Re: Sucker Punch
This movie was so bad.  And it is really too bad because there were some really great scenes on display and the soundtrack was awesome but overall it was a stinker.
_________________ Top 10 Films of 2016
1. La La Land 2. Other People 3. Nocturnal Animals 4. Swiss Army Man 5. Manchester by the Sea 6. The Edge of Seventeen 7. Sing Street 8. Indignation 9. The Lobster 10. Hell or High Water
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Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:39 pm |
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Brian
Ocarina of Time
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:21 pm Posts: 7951 Location: Hyrule
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 Re: Sucker Punch
movies35 wrote: This movie was so bad.  And it is really too bad because there were some really great scenes on display and the soundtrack was awesome but overall it was a stinker.  -----------------------------------------> 
_________________ Most Anticipated 2023
1. Super Mario Bros Movie 2. Rebel Moon 3. Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning Part 1 4. Oppenheimer 5. The Flash 6. Elemental 7. Aquaman 2 8. Dune Part 2 9. Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 10. Blue Beetle
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Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:12 pm |
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movies35
Forum General
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:53 pm Posts: 8627 Location: Syracuse, NY
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 Re: Sucker Punch
I'm really looking forward to Man of Steel though. 
_________________ Top 10 Films of 2016
1. La La Land 2. Other People 3. Nocturnal Animals 4. Swiss Army Man 5. Manchester by the Sea 6. The Edge of Seventeen 7. Sing Street 8. Indignation 9. The Lobster 10. Hell or High Water
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Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:33 pm |
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Brian
Ocarina of Time
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:21 pm Posts: 7951 Location: Hyrule
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 Re: Sucker Punch
movies35 wrote: I'm really looking forward to Man of Steel though.   ----------------------------------------------> 
_________________ Most Anticipated 2023
1. Super Mario Bros Movie 2. Rebel Moon 3. Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning Part 1 4. Oppenheimer 5. The Flash 6. Elemental 7. Aquaman 2 8. Dune Part 2 9. Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 10. Blue Beetle
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Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:47 am |
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Mannyisthebest
Forum General
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 3:53 pm Posts: 8642 Location: Toronto, Canada
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 Re: Sucker Punch
I watched this film 30 mins... Meaning I watched the action scenes as the rest was crap.
_________________The Dark Prince 
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Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:02 am |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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 Re: Sucker Punch
It was a little all over the place, but I kinda liked it.
B+
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:01 am |
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