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 How Long Does The Earth Have Left? 
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Post How Long Does The Earth Have Left?
So all I seem to be reading latly is how Global Warming is going to be what eventually kills this planet, and from what scientists are saying, it may not be too long.

Now were not talking in any of our lifetimes, but it could be in the distant future ... maybe around the year 3000?


I know that kind of sounds a long way off, but when you think about the reign of man on the earth ... well ... it would be rather short. So what is everyones thoughts on Global Warming?

Do we have some kind of debt that we owe to future generations to deal with this now?

How should we really deal with it? I mean by the time this becomes a problem, it wouldnt suprise me if we were capable of picking up and moving camp elsewhere. This is where having a real Global Union ... something like the United Nations, except inviting everyone, and with some sort of governing power over issues encompassing everyone.

Personally, I think they have no idea the implications, and all of this is just scare tactics designed to cause action. That said I do think that this will be the demise of the earth ... the Ozone is what makes this planet unique, and it wont be around much longer at the rate we are going.

Thoughts?


Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:43 am
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Didn't you hear what Dubya said? The rest of the world got it wrong.

Global warning doesn't exist.

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Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:54 am
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Ozone layer has nothing to do with the Global Warming phenomena, first of all. Second, the depletion rate for Ozone has slowed down significantly over the past few decades.


As for the Global Warming - I'm very skeptical about it. Over the past century various doomsday scenarios have been proposed from over-population to the theory of cooling Earth, and none of them have panned out. We simply don't know what will happen in the future, and death of human civilization because of Earth warming up by a degree or two is certainly not a concern to me.


Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:25 am
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We dont have as long as we all think.

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Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:32 am
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The Earth does still have a long time ahead, whether it is habitable or not is a whole different question. Humanity is who should be worrying...


Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:38 am
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Krem wrote:
Ozone layer has nothing to do with the Global Warming phenomena, first of all. Second, the depletion rate for Ozone has slowed down significantly over the past few decades.


As for the Global Warming - I'm very skeptical about it. Over the past century various doomsday scenarios have been proposed from over-population to the theory of cooling Earth, and none of them have panned out. We simply don't know what will happen in the future, and death of human civilization because of Earth warming up by a degree or two is certainly not a concern to me.


You're a dreamer!


Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:39 am
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Levy wrote:
Krem wrote:
Ozone layer has nothing to do with the Global Warming phenomena, first of all. Second, the depletion rate for Ozone has slowed down significantly over the past few decades.


As for the Global Warming - I'm very skeptical about it. Over the past century various doomsday scenarios have been proposed from over-population to the theory of cooling Earth, and none of them have panned out. We simply don't know what will happen in the future, and death of human civilization because of Earth warming up by a degree or two is certainly not a concern to me.


You're a dreamer!

But I'm not the only one ;-)


Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:47 am
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Krem wrote:
Levy wrote:
Krem wrote:
Ozone layer has nothing to do with the Global Warming phenomena, first of all. Second, the depletion rate for Ozone has slowed down significantly over the past few decades.


As for the Global Warming - I'm very skeptical about it. Over the past century various doomsday scenarios have been proposed from over-population to the theory of cooling Earth, and none of them have panned out. We simply don't know what will happen in the future, and death of human civilization because of Earth warming up by a degree or two is certainly not a concern to me.


You're a dreamer!

But I'm not the only one ;-)


That's the real tragedy...


Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:50 am
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Eagle, were you drunk last night ... again?


Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:50 am
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Levy wrote:
Krem wrote:
Levy wrote:
Krem wrote:
Ozone layer has nothing to do with the Global Warming phenomena, first of all. Second, the depletion rate for Ozone has slowed down significantly over the past few decades.


As for the Global Warming - I'm very skeptical about it. Over the past century various doomsday scenarios have been proposed from over-population to the theory of cooling Earth, and none of them have panned out. We simply don't know what will happen in the future, and death of human civilization because of Earth warming up by a degree or two is certainly not a concern to me.


You're a dreamer!

But I'm not the only one ;-)


That's the real tragedy...

:lol:

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Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:53 am
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Quote:
Growing scientific evidence is confirming that the world’s climate is radically changing and that human activity is now contributing to global warming, according to a report released today by The Conference Board.

The report is based on the collective views of 11 noted climate scientists who met this June under the auspices of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. The Conference Board’s participation in the meeting was facilitated by Environmental Defense, which links science, economics, law and innovative private-sector partnerships to create breakthrough solutions to the most serious environmental problems. (For the names of participating scientists, see pages 3-4.)

Concludes the report: “The Earth – for whatever the exact reasons – is on a trajectory toward an ever warmer climate. This cannot be avoided at this point, but the trajectory can be jiggled and potential risks associated with the warming can be mitigated. Ultimately the trajectory could be reversed.”

The report finds that “governments and markets are likely to act” on expanding scientific evidence and perceptions that climate change has become “an urgent priority that must be addressed through a variety of measures.” Participating scientists in the report strongly believe that “a reduction in human-caused emissions is an essential step in any overall strategy for dealing with climate change.”

HERE


According to the latest data, turns out they've been extremely conservative in their estimates, and that the crisis is far worse than they imagined. The point of no return will be reached within a few years, not decades. Then it will be the media's job to assure everyone that everything's okay... as the eco-system collapses, crops fail and people begin to die on a massive scale.

But then again, Dubya thinks Kyoto's totally unnecessary, so I guess he knows better than the rest of the world.

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Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:56 am
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wertham is right. It has been confirmed a few days or weeks ago that the melting of the polar ice caps has exceeded even the most pessimistic scenarios by far.


Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:59 am
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Levy wrote:
wertham is right. It has been confirmed a few days or weeks ago that the melting of the polar ice caps has exceeded even the most pessimistic scenarios by far.

How does that jive with the fact that the amount of ice in Antractic is increasing?


Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:00 am
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The Day After Tomorrow (2004, Roland Emmerich)

:wink:

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Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:00 am
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Algren wrote:
The Day After Tomorrow (2004, Roland Emmerich)

:wink:

Oh that's right.

Tying any natural disaster to Global Warming, whether it's extreme cold, heat, vulcano eruptions, earthquakes, tsunamis, el ninos, etc. is imperative to receving more funding. How could I forget.


Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:03 am
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Its going to happen...Where Will You Be?

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Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:12 am
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Quote:
Under the first treaty addressing global warming, 193 countries, including the United States, pledged to avoid “dangerous” human interference with the climate.

There was one small problem with that treaty, enacted 11 years ago. No one defined dangerous. With no clear goal, smokestack and tailpipe emissions of gases linked to rising temperatures relentlessly climbed.

On February 16, a stricter addendum to that treaty, the Kyoto Protocol, enters into force, requiring participating industrialized countries to cut such emissions.

But its targets and timetable were negotiated with no agreement on what amount of cuts would lead the world toward climatic stability. The arbitrary terms were cited by President Bush when he rejected the Kyoto pact in 2001, leaving the world’s biggest source of such gases on the sidelines.

After a decade of cautious circling, some scientists and policymakers are now trying to agree on how much warming is too much.

One possible step toward clarity comes last week, as 200 experts from around the world met at the invitation of Prime Minister Tony Blair in Exeter for three days of talks on defining “dangerous climate change” and how to avoid it.

The researcher running the meeting, Dennis A. Tirpak, formerly of the Environmental Protection Agency, said that experts always realized it would take a long time for science’s projections to be absorbed by society, but few thought it would take this long.

“I’ve always been a believer that science and truth will win out in the end,” he said. “But I have a sense we might be running out of time.”

HERE


The whole sordid mess all boils down to stalling tactics that have been purchased by the major corporate interests to protect their considerable investments. Once their fortunes have been protected (at the cost of the environment), only THEN will you start hearing about action being taken in the US. It really doesn't matter what the rest of the world does, as the Americans are the most profligate consumers of natural resources anyway.

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Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:13 am
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I've never really understood your position on this issue Krem. If you're right and global warming's a myth, then signing the kyoto agreement will ultimately cause a bit of economic turmoil, but humanity will live on. If you're wrong and global warming turns out to be a very real and dangerous threat, then not signing the agreement and doing our bit to reduce emissions will ultimately cause a bit of economic turmoil, and the death of the human race.

Wouldn't it be better to be right and buggered financially than wrong, buggered financially and dead?


Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:14 am
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Snrub wrote:
I've never really understood your position on this issue Krem. If you're right and global warming's a myth, then signing the kyoto agreement will ultimately cause a bit of economic turmoil, but humanity will live on. If you're wrong and global warming turns out to be a very real and dangerous threat, then not signing the agreement and doing our bit to reduce emissions will ultimately cause a bit of economic turmoil, and the death of the human race.

Wouldn't it be better to be right and buggered financially than wrong, buggered financially and dead?

I'm not saying Global Warming's a myth; I'm saying that we don't know (but it's likely) that Global Warming is happening and we definitely don't know what effect humans have on the phenomena.

Kyoto protocol, on the other hand, will have very real effect on the economy and not just a "bit of economic turmoil". Industrialized nations will be forced to cut production by 10-20%, while the developing nations such as India and CHina will largely ignore the protocol. On top of that, there is very little chance that Kyoto will have any effect on the environment, since according to the GW theorists the damage has already been done. In effect, Kyoto is either not needed at all or doesn't solve the problem, while draining the economies aroudn the world.

Now, think about this for a second: if the economy takes a turn for the worse, then there will be less funds available to solve other, more pressing issues, such as R&D of better fuels on one hand and foreing aid on the other.

I view Kyoto as a tool of anti-capitalists and anti-globalists veiled as an attempt to save humanity. That's why I am against it.

EDIT: It's also an attempt to make America give in to the global tax idea, pushed by Chirac and others.


Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:33 am
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Tis coming soon

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Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:38 am
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From the most recent issue of Nature:

Quote:
"A number of reconstructions of millennial-scale climate variability have been carried out in order to understand patterns of natural climate variability, on decade to century timescales, and the role of anthropogenic forcing. These reconstructions have mainly used tree-ring data and other data sets of annual to decadal resolution. Lake and ocean sediments have a lower time resolution, but provide climate information at multicentennial timescales that may not be captured by tree-ring data. Here we reconstruct Northern Hemisphere temperatures for the past 2,000 years by combining low-resolution proxies with tree-ring data, using a wavelet transform technique to achieve timescale-dependent processing of the data. Our reconstruction shows larger multicentennial variability than most previous multi-proxy reconstructions, but agrees well with temperatures reconstructed from borehole measurements and with temperatures obtained with a general circulation model. According to our reconstruction, high temperatures—similar to those observed in the twentieth century before 1990—occurred around AD 1000 to 1100, and minimum temperatures that are about 0.7 K below the average of 1961–90 occurred around AD 1600. This large natural variability in the past suggests an important role of natural multicentennial variability that is likely to continue."


In other words: if you look beyond the tree rings , which made the "hockey stick" model famous, you'll see that the current pattern of warming is nothing out of the ordinary.


Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:05 pm
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Quote:
“I know from observation,” Pachauri told a reporter at an international climate conference in Argentina. “If you go to the Himalayan peaks, the rate at which the glaciers are retreating is alarming. And this is not an isolated example. I’ve seen photographs of Mount Kilimanjaro 50 years ago and now. The evidence is visible.”

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6870852/



What logical minds want to know is: Why would anyone want to deny the evidence. It is all around you.

In fact, for the first time since we were able to track such things, we actually had a smog alert in Ontario in February. The city of Toronto is so concerned about the pollution from cars that they will likely impose a tax on traffic going into the city proper. (How they'd ever collect it is beyond me.)

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Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:19 pm
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Stupid Government in Ontario. They want that tax and they raise the price of taking public transportaion... maybe they should lower it and people woulnd't use their cars


Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:21 pm
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2 days


Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:23 pm
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bABA wrote:
2 days


Good answer :roll:

Great to see you're really putting your mind to it.

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Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:27 pm
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