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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 40592
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 Re: The Reader
pfft, is that what constitutes for 'big dick' (in the words of snack) these days
Wait till they see el Shack do a naked Holocaust scene
Wait till they see
_________________Shack’s top 50 tv shows - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=90227
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Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:14 am |
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roo
invading your spaces
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:44 pm Posts: 6194
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 Re: The Reader
loyalfromlondon wrote: I don't have a case.
It sucks that someone can't hate a film around here without having an agenda. I would think after all these years and my broad cinematic tastes, I would have a little street cred. Nowhere did I say you didn't have a case. And you do have broad cinematic tastes. Unfortunately I also know that when you get your mind made up about films, you tend to either turn into a fanboy or get extremely aggressive in imposing your tastes on everyone. I know this first hand and quite honestly, you are SO unapproachable on film that I'd rather not discuss anything about film with you. If I didn't like Surfwise, I thought before watching the movie, I would never have posted because you seem to put so much value on that. It's not like I think you don't get it or that you are dense, quite the contrary. You are one of the coolest and nicest people to me on these boards, and I consider you a friend. You just aren't approachable about film. Like The Reader or Benjamin Buttons are cinematically devoid of value to everyone because you have deemed them as such? You may not believe that, but it's the vibe you give off. I can't stand this version of Loyal. And oh yes, I've done it too. I did it with Crash especially, and you know what? That was a retard move on my part. Quote: Maybe The Reader just sucks. The simplest explanation is often the correct one. Like right here, you are pretending this is a truth, even though I know you know that's not the case on a logical level.
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Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:15 am |
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Loyal
"no rank"
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:43 pm Posts: 24502
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 Re: The Reader
roo wrote: loyalfromlondon wrote: I don't have a case.
It sucks that someone can't hate a film around here without having an agenda. I would think after all these years and my broad cinematic tastes, I would have a little street cred. Nowhere did I say you didn't have a case. And you do have broad cinematic tastes. Unfortunately I also know that when you get your mind made up about films, you tend to either turn into a fanboy or get extremely aggressive in imposing your tastes on everyone. I know this first hand and quite honestly, you are SO unapproachable on film that I'd rather not discuss anything about film with you. If I didn't like Surfwise, I thought before watching the movie, I would never have posted because you seem to put so much value on that. It's not like I think you don't get it or that you are dense, quite the contrary. You are one of the coolest and nicest people to me on these boards, and I consider you a friend. You just aren't approachable about film. Like The Reader or Benjamin Buttons are cinematically devoid of value to everyone because you have deemed them as such? You may not believe that, but it's the vibe you give off. I can't stand this version of Loyal. And oh yes, I've done it too. I did it with Crash especially, and you know what? That was a retard move on my part. Quote: Maybe The Reader just sucks. The simplest explanation is often the correct one. Like right here, you are pretending this is a truth, even though I know you know that's not the case on a logical level. I don't think I should have a target on my back moreso than other posters. I'm not that intense, am I?
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Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:28 am |
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roo
invading your spaces
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:44 pm Posts: 6194
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 Re: The Reader
You are pretty intense in my view. yoshue (for example) is pretty intense too but I'm starting to understand his undertone of humor.
There are a few of us who need to understand that what we say has more of an impact than others.
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Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:36 am |
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Loyal
"no rank"
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:43 pm Posts: 24502
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 Re: The Reader
roo wrote: You are pretty intense in my view. yoshue (for example) is pretty intense too but I'm starting to understand his undertone of humor.
There are a few of us who need to understand that what we say has more of an impact than others. good to know (I guess).
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Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:40 am |
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Mr. Reynolds
Confessing on a Dance Floor
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:46 am Posts: 5578 Location: Celebratin' in Chitown
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 Re: The Reader
I dunno. I'm torn about this movie. On the one hand, it had an interesting and unconventional love story, forced the audience to think about some big themes, and showcased Winslet's best performance to date (and let's not forget tons of male nudity and a penis!!).
But on the other hand, the editing of the events was choppy, the script manipulative, and the directing nothing special. In fact, some of the direction was down right lazy I think in regards to make up and other details. The transition from teen to adult was horrible and I just could not ignore it. (Kross and Fienes look nothing alike)
Does anyone know if this was based on a real story or not? For some reason, I feel as if that's going to have an effect on my final verdict on this movie.
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Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:48 pm |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 40592
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 Re: The Reader
I liked it more than I expected. On the bait scale it's an 11 out of 10, but for what it is, it's well executed and engrossing. It never passes into over the top melodrama or embarrasment, and avoids over relying on exposition or dialog, unlike most films of the type. Rather most of the strength of the film is when Michael and Hannah aren't talking, which is a credit to the acting of the three main players. This is one of Winslet's best performances and I'd be glad to see her finally win, she really sinks right into and loses herself in the character. Kross and Fiennes are also very impressive.
The human complexities of Michael and Hannah are interesting... both are extremely flawed, their inability to surpass their shame, embarrasment, and own up to what they should both to the world and to each other, has drastic, devastating consequences throughout their life. It holds an important message of the importance of openness and surpassing selfish embarrasments and secrecies, when it holds consequences for other people
I liked that they make the 1st act rather joyful, fitting in with Michael's innocence. The 2nd is the best, bringing in the stakes for the characters, and the stuff with Fiennes and the camp daughter and old Kate/the reading is also important. (though I could do without the suicide)
I'm surprised at the critical reception for this. I mean it's not the highlight of last year or anything, but it's the type of competent, well wound bait material that's usually safe for 80+ with them... it's not any less competent than The Pianist for example, actually I prefer this film.
If you showed people this before the RT score, then told them it'll be a BP nominee, nobody would surprised, the reaction would likely be more 'I just hope it doesn't win'. It's not a stretch for the academy at all... I'd call it an obvious pick by their trends, actually. Again if it was seen before RT or the distribution mess everyone would pencil it in. The critics hating it is more the anamoly here, actually.
4/5
_________________Shack’s top 50 tv shows - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=90227
Last edited by Shack on Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:06 am |
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Johnny Dollar
The Lubitsch Touch
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 pm Posts: 11019
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 Re: The Reader
I hope this results in a huge, bitchy fight between snackypoo and shackypoo.
Go at it, girls!
_________________ k
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:10 am |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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 Re: The Reader
Shack was impressed by Kross' penis.
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:18 am |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 40592
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 Re: The Reader
Heh for the record it's on screen for maybe .5 seconds... the exact shot you posted is the only moment
_________________Shack’s top 50 tv shows - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=90227
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:20 am |
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snack
Extraordinary
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:18 pm Posts: 12159
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 Re: The Reader
Shack wrote: pfft, is that what constitutes for 'big dick' (in the words of snack) these days
Wait till they see el Shack do a naked Holocaust scene
Wait till they see well, to be fair, I was sitting in the front row.
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:54 am |
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snack
Extraordinary
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:18 pm Posts: 12159
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 Re: The Reader
this fight between roo and loyal is stupid. roo is clearly wrong.
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:56 am |
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publicenemy#1
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:25 am Posts: 19444 Location: San Diego
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 Re: The Reader
... I guess it's just me, but I think putting Kate's performance in supporting would have been fitting. ? I don't know.
I liked it, just not what I was expecting. (I'm not a huge fan of TDK but I definitely think it deserved a BP nod over this)
Kate's great, but I think she was better in RR. Plus... admitting to be responsible for deaths to hide illiteracy? Um... I guess.
Eh. Still, I think there are good aspects to the film.
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Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:33 pm |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 40592
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 Re: The Reader
I took the decision as more her considering herself guilty and deserving of the sentence and the murders, than just being that ashamed of the illiteracy. Then her suicide is because she feels she doesn't deserve to be released into the real world.
_________________Shack’s top 50 tv shows - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=90227
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Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:45 pm |
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Gulli
Jordan Mugen-Honda
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:53 am Posts: 13403
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 Re: The Reader
I have this on my HD and still need to watch it. I will always be bias to Andy over Loyal with movies and yet this movie's premise filled me with meh.
So conflicted!
_________________ Rosberg was reminded of the fuel regulations by his wheel's ceasing to turn. The hollow noise from the fuel tank and needle reading zero had failed to convay this message
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Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:06 pm |
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Loyal
"no rank"
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:43 pm Posts: 24502
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 Re: The Reader
Gulli wrote: I have this on my HD and still need to watch it. I will always be bias to Andy over Loyal with movies and yet this movie's premise filled me with meh.
So conflicted! BOOOOO
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Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:07 pm |
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Alex Y.
Top Poster
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:47 pm Posts: 5824
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 Re: The Reader
B+, the best of the 5 BP nominees
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Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:03 pm |
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MovieDude
Where will you be?
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:50 am Posts: 11675
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 Re: The Reader
If the film's Best Picture nomination made the film unpleasant for some, the tremendous interent backlash meant that I was pleasantly surprised. As many have said, the film is as polished and well-filmed as any Oscar nominee. Personally, I view that as a positive attribute. But more than the classy direction, the story resonated with me. While I thought Michael being so hung up on Hannah was a bit much, it certainly was a great device for him being conflicted, (much better than Doubt) as he seemed to not talk to Hannah because he was scared of her as much as he was angry at her actions. His decision to withhold that information was clearly personal, not in the name of justice. It's a great concept that I'm sure is more thoroughly examined in the novel, but I thought that it gave the last act considerable weight, despite Winslet's dodgy makeup. A lot of people seemed to feel that the film fell apart after the trial. Personally, I really liked how he could give her all those tapes, yet wouldn't dare tap into any romantic feelings. Sure it's melodramatic, but it also meant that my group left the theater having to digest and discuss the film, rather than just shrug it off. Maybe it's because I found the last act to be just as strong that I enjoyed the movie more than most here.
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Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:12 am |
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JURiNG
ef star star kay
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:45 pm Posts: 3016 Location: Cairo, Egypt
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 Re: The Reader
Stephen Daldry + Kate Winslet + male full-frontal + the action between older woman with young man ..
ummm.. I think I'm gonna love it
_________________
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Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:20 pm |
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Box
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:52 am Posts: 25990
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 Re: The Reader
A vexing film with a terrible, languorous narrative structure. The film raises some interesting issues which it is wholly incapable of addressing.
There is an interesting negotiation surrounding the physical body in the film, but it remains unfortunately in the background (and I'm not sure if I'm not imposing a structure onto the film it does not merit). The eroticized bodies of Hannah and Michael must be understood with respect to the charred bodies of the Jews in the church and Hannah's ruined body at the film's end.
The trajectory the film outlines moves between a general historical tragedy (ie, the Holocaust) and a particularized personal tragedy (Hannah's solitudinous existence). The key here, I think, is that the origins of Hannah's tragedy (her illiteracy), and the eventual outcome (her suicide) lie outside the parameters of the Holocaust. The problem with the film is that it does not adequately emphasize this point, and the result is quite damning, since, despite the evident effort on the filmmakers' part to stress that Hannah's illiteracy is not an excuse for her actions during the war, the effect is that her private shame is positioned with respect to her official guilt. This is codified during the trial in Hannah's refusal to admit to being illiterate, which amplifies her guilt in the eyes of the court (and makes a mockery of justice along the way).
The Holocaust is effectively relegated to the margins; thus, we have reports of Jews being burned to death in a church, but no scenes of the actual event; and thus also, we have a young German walking through an empty concentration camp, but no scenes of the actual crimes committed there. The suggestion, by necessity, is that such events have no place within the narrative proper, and exist within it only in a negative sense, by inference. And yet, the film insists on the gravity of the crimes it does not have the courage to represent, and establishes a firm association between them and the personal story at its centre. The effect here is that Hannah's personal story overwhelms that of her victims, who, being dead, and being denied any presence on the screen, cannot tell their story. We have, instead, two weak surrogates for them in the form of a mother and daughter whose authority is hardly firmer than that of Hannah and the other SS women. No one can speak for the dead; and the dead disallow anyone else to speak. Their fate testifies to acts of violence we cannot properly articulate (How could this happen? How can human beings do such things?).
What is striking about The Reader is that it seems to form a connection between the inability of the victims and the victimizer to communicate, as if Hannah, because of her illiteracy, is also, somehow, a victim. Whose victim, precisely, and why? The film offers absolutely no reason for Hannah's illiteracy, and neither does it ever acknowledge the basic fact that Hannah's case would have been thoroughly ordinary, that she would have been one of tens of millions of people in Europe during the war and thereafter who were illiterate. Despite the Holocaust survivor's statement toward the end of the film that Jews are not known for being illiterate, many of the Jewish victims of the Holocaust in Eastern Europe were, like the Roma victims of the Nazis, illiterate too. What appals me is that the general tragedy of the Holocaust and Hannah's personal tragedy are interwoven along those lines, ignoring the fundamental difference between the two, namely, that Hannah's victimhood is of her own making, while that of the Jews is not (unless you fault them for the crimes the Nazis committed against them). So, then, here is an illiterate women and there we have hundreds of silenced voices, and we also have a suicide (a wholly voluntary act of murder irrespective of the intentions) and hundreds of dead bodies of people desperate to flee. It is beneath contempt to form any association between these, in any way, even if to state that Hannah's suicide is somehow a logical or fitting answer to her crimes during the war. To say that is to say that the appropriate answer to one unspeakable crime is another, as if one calls on the other to be committed. The dead, to reiterate, cannot speak.
What irritates me the most, however, is the inept way the film tries to interweave literature and eroticism into all of this. Literature, as the film would have it, accrues meaning as a communicative agent. An association is made rather explicitly between Michael's readings to Hannah and those of the Jewish women to her during the war (So is Michael a victim too?), but there is another connection as well, between the literary works Michael and Hannah share between each other, and the memoir of the Holocaust survivor. The film, to its credit, is sober in its assessment that literature is not redemptive; in its ability to allow for communication between individuals, however, literature has affirmative qualities, and that's as much as one can hope for. But the Holocaust memoir (which the court hears excerpts from but which is, surprise surprise, closed off to us the audience) points toward literature's inadequacies. The dead, again, cannot speak; there cannot be any communication with them, and so literature cannot even assume affirmative qualities in relation to them. Whether Hannah can read or not is utterly irrelevant; in the face of her crimes, her illiteracy has no meaning.
As with literature, so too with the body. If eroticism, the raw act of sex and the physical attachment to a lover it implies, can be interpreted as a (desperate) act of communication between a hapless youth (who, inexperienced, has no language yet) and a profoundly lonely woman, think of all the possibilities available to them (or rather, watch them dramatized, fully, on the screen). But then, think of the dead to whom all those possibilities are denied, whose physicality is defined by nothing else but, quite literally, their ashes. Juxtaposing the image of the two naked lovers with that of the charred bodies of the three hundred Jews Hannah murdered goes some length in outlining the inadequacies of this film.
_________________In order of preference: Christian, Argos MadGez wrote: Briefs. Am used to them and boxers can get me in trouble it seems. Too much room and maybe the silkiness have created more than one awkward situation. My Box-Office Blog: http://boxofficetracker.blogspot.com/
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:10 am |
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snack
Extraordinary
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:18 pm Posts: 12159
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 Re: The Reader
oh it's one of those box review, eh?
but seriously, I'm excited to read it. will do tomorrow morning!
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:12 am |
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Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
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 Re: The Reader
Box wrote: I'm not sure if I'm not imposing a structure onto the film it does not merit. Based on your review, I'm not not sure you're not either...
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:21 am |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 40592
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 Re: The Reader
Box, Hannah's illiteracy symbolizes her, and people in general's, inability to think or act for themsleves. She cannot read on her own, so she must have someone read for her... This is her tragedy and what leads her to her crime. The illiteracy damns her and society's weakness and reliance on what others tell them to do, it far from paints her as a victim.
It avoids being a Holocaust victims sympathy film, not only because that's been done, but because I feel its themes aren't tied down to that. If it does make any statement about the Holocaust, it's to lay a punch square in the jaw of the civilians at the time. Hannah watching burning church = German bystanders who knew what was happening and sat watching. One of the law kids makes an on the nose statement about this, that the trial is ridiculous because it's a means of averting blame and responsibility for this tragedy onto 6 'evil Nazis' so the rest can sleep easy at night knowing they're innocent, when really inhumanities and wrongs are always caused more by those who watch them and are afraid to say anything about them, than those up front pulling the levers.
In this case Hannah represents those who took the guard job not because they hates Jews but because it was an open job, then followed the Nazi orders out of fear of the consequences of disobeying, or death. As she states in the courtroom, what should she have done? Not taken the job? Released them and been killed herself? Just the same, what should the people who knew about the Holocaust inhumanities, what should they have done? In either case you can't really blame them for wanting to continue living and not putting themselves at risk, even if on the surface it is selfish. Much of the Nazis in Hannah's position didn't do this because they were Jew hating moustache twirling evil guys, but because of situations and fear like this and falling into the wrong trap. But in spite of that, they ARE still just as guilty, and so are the civilians. And in the case of WWII Germany, all the people fooled by Hitler's charisma and who's blind support created this regime, shows the people's fault in creating this, and their inability to own up to that as their biggest mistake. The point is most crimes are not caused by pure evil, but rather by people who make a mistake or wrong decision and fall into a bad situation, and who can't get out of it. I find this all fairly interesting and more complex than what's presented in most films of the type.
This also ties into the theme of what happens about the nature of secrecy, when you refuse to own up to shames for selfish reasons when it involves more than you, and the tendency for people to put the blame on other's shoulders to avoid this. Along with some stuff like the lynching in the courtroom, Michael's arc in all three acts fits this, almost all his and Hannah's problems come from being closed off from their shames. Even at the end his inability to be open and get past his selfish stigma and personal fear with Hannah, leads to her death. As someone who's dealt with living 'closed off' personally and emotionally, then found the virtues of opening my life up, this message did a lot for me, as unrelated in context as it is.
I don't think this is a perfect movie, but I do think it has some worth and meat to dig through, more than say Saving Private Ryan or Schindler's List IMO.
_________________Shack’s top 50 tv shows - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=90227
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:03 pm |
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Loyal
"no rank"
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:43 pm Posts: 24502
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 Re: The Reader
Too much to read between Shack's and Box's review. I'll just wait for the shitty Oscar bait adaptation, with bad make-up and lazy editing. Who will play Box though? Joseph Fiennes perhaps. as a counter argument Don't Give an Oscar to The Reader We don't need another "redemptive" Holocaust movie. By Ron RosenbaumQuote: If I hadn't used the locution so recently, I would be certain to call The Reader "The Worst Holocaust Film Ever Made."
Somebody has to say it. I haven't seen others do so in print. And if I'm not the perfect person to do so, I do have some expertise.
And so I will: This is a film whose essential metaphorical thrust is to exculpate Nazi-era Germans from knowing complicity in the Final Solution. The fact that it was recently nominated for a best picture Oscar offers stunning proof that Hollywood seems to believe that if it's a "Holocaust film," it must be worthy of approbation, end of story. And so a film that asks us to empathize with an unrepentant mass murderer and intimates that "ordinary Germans" were ignorant of the extermination until after the war, now stands a good chance of getting a golden statuette.
A deeply depressing indication of how the film misreads the Holocaust can be found in a recent New York Times report on the state of the Oscar race. The paper gave disproportionate attention to The Reader by featuring a wistful-looking still of Kate Winslet above the headline "Films About Personal Triumphs Resonate With Viewers During Awards Season."
What, exactly, was the Kate Winslet character's "personal triumph"? While in prison for participation in an act of mass murder that was particularly gruesome and personal, given the generally impersonal extermination processâ€â€as a death camp guard, she helped ensure 300 Jewish women locked in a burning church would die in the fireâ€â€she taught herself to read! What a heartwarming fable about the wonders of literacy and its ability to improve the life of an Auschwitz mass murderer!
True, she's unrepentant for the most part about allowing those women and children to burn to death. (Although we do see one scene in which it turns out she's saved some pennies in prison that she wants to be given to the children of the women she murderedâ€â€thanks!) But most of what we see of her prison experience is her excitement at her growing literacy skills. Get a load of those pages turning! Reading is fun!
It's been argued that no fictional film can do justice to the events of 1939-45, that only documentaries like Alan Resnais' Night and Fog or Claude Lanzmann's nine-plus-hour-long Shoah can begin to convey the reality of the evil. And there certainly have been execrable failures (example: Life Is Beautiful). I've argued that most of the fictionalized efforts either exhibit a false redemptiveness or an offensive sexual exploitivenessâ€â€what some critics have called "Nazi porn." But in recent years, a new mode of misconstrual has prevailedâ€â€the desire to exculpate the German people of guilt for the crimes of the Hitler era. I spoke recently with Mark Weitzman, the head of the Simon Wiesenthal Center's New York office, who went so far as to say that The Reader was a symptom of a kind of "Holocaust revisionism," which used to be the euphemistic term for Holocaust denial.
Weitzman mentioned three films in particular: In addition to The Reader, there was Tom Cruise's Valkyrie, which gave the impression that the Wehrmacht, the German army, was full of good men and true (identifiable in the film by their British accents) who had always opposed that lout Hitler with his whole silly Jewish obsession, when in fact the more we learn about the Wehrmacht's role, the more disgracefully complicit it turns out to have been with the mass murderers of the SS. Yes, a few Wehrmacht officers did plot against Hitler, but they waited to take action until the successful Normandy invasion, when it seemed Hitler would lose the war.
"The Valkyrie conspiracy took place in 1944," Weitzman told me. "If it had been 1941, it might have made a difference."
And then there was Cruise's character, Claus von Stauffenberg, very brave, it's true, in 1944. But back during the brutal war crime that was the 1939 invasion of Poland (the British magazine History Today reminds us), he was describing the Polish civilians his army was slaughtering as "an unbelievable rabble" made up of "Jews and mongrels." With friends like these ...
Moral: Don't go looking for heroes in the largely mythical "German resistance" to Hitler. The German resistance was not much more real or effectual than the French Resistanceâ€â€its legend outgrew its deeds after the war. (Although it is worth seeking out the two movies about the tiny, brave-but-doomed, Munich-based "White Rose" resistance, The White Rose and Sophie Scholl: The Last Days, which tell the story of a few students who didn'tâ€â€like the Valkyrie conspiratorsâ€â€believe the goal was to help Germany win the war more efficiently than Hitler, but to bear moral witness against the exterminators. For which they were brutally guillotined in Munich in 1943.)
The third film Weitzman mentions as an example of this soft revisionism is The Boy in the Striped Pajamas, one I haven't been able to bring myself to see but that features a young German boy, son of Nazi parents, who lives near a concentration camp and befriends a young death camp "boy in striped pajamas." The tale is not dissimilar in saccharine sentiment to the recently revealed, Oprah-fied fraud about the girl who gave the death camp boy apples, although it avoids the happy ending of that treacly sham.
But at least they didn't give these two films Oscar nominations or awards like the disgraceful one given to Life Is Beautiful.
Still, cumulatively, Weitzman believes they achieve a sinister effect: "Where overt Holocaust denial has failed in America," Weitzman said, "the way it has not elsewhere, these films represent a kind of Holocaust revisionism that misconstrues the German role in it, which extended far beyond Hitler's circle." (Which reminds me of another example, The Reader's partner in exculpatory shame: Downfall, which did exactly thatâ€â€make it seem as though Hitler and Goebbels and a few others were the source of all evil in Germany while the poor, unknowing German people were victims, too. It's revolting.)
In this repellent form of revisionism, most Germans (you know, the ones who helped bring Hitler to power, who enthusiastically joined in his hysterical Jew-hatred and his pogroms, who supported his mass deportations "to the East") were somehow ignorant of the extermination of the Jews going on "in the East." They presumably noticed the disappearance of the Jews from their midst (since they eagerly stole their apartments and everything valuable the Jews were forced to leave behind). I once confronted a spokesman for the German Consulate on a panel in New York who was pushing a version of this line; he'd referred to a recent poll that purported to show that the majority of Germans alive at the time of the extermination hadâ€â€surprise!â€â€no knowledge of it.
"What did they think?" I asked him. "The Jews all decided to go on vacation and forgot to come home?"
Please, let's not allow films like The Reader to misrepresent history by pretending the Germansâ€â€even those too young to fightâ€â€didn't know what was going on until (as The Reader would have it) after the war, when they learned about all the troubling things that some of their fellow citizens did "in the East."
Only then, the film asks us to believe, did these ordinary Germans find themselves shocked, shocked at the mass murder, the gassing, the industrialized killing. Germans had actually participated? So hard to believe! So few clues!
In fact, one of the most damning documents I uncovered in researching my book Explaining Hitler was a revelation that appeared in a Munich anti-Hitler newspaper, the Münchener Post, on Dec. 9, 1931. It had been lost to history until I found it in the basement of a state archive. The courageous reporters of the social-democratic paper had gotten hold of a secret Nazi Party plan for the disposition of the Jews that first used what was to become the widespread euphemism for extermination: "Final Solution" (Endlössung), a word that left little doubt over the mass murder it euphemized. I've written about the difficulties I met with in trying to make their story into a film: Hollywood resists Hitler-related movies when they lack "a happy ending." But it's clear Germans could have known as early as 1931 (or 1926 if they'd bothered to read Mein Kampf).
They could have known if they'd read about the legal dehumanization of Jews in the Nuremberg laws of 1935 or the state-sponsored pogroms after Kristallnacht in 1938. And if they happened to be illiterate as in The Reader (something Cynthia Ozick dispatches as a fraudulent red-herring metaphoric excuse in an essay that examined the book), they could have heard it from Hitler's mouth in his infamous 1939 radio broadcast to Germany and the world, threatening extermination of the Jews if war started. You had to be deaf, dumb, and blind, not merely illiterate, to miss what Kate Winslet's character seems to have missed (while serving as a guard at Auschwitz!). You'd have to be exceedingly stupid. As dumb as the Oscar voters who nominated The Reader because it was a "Holocaust film."
But that's what The Reader is about: the supposedly difficult struggle with this slowly dawning postwar awareness. As Cynthia Ozick put it in her essay: "After the war, when she is brought to trial, the narrator ['Michael Berg'] acknowledges that she is guilty of despicable crimesâ€â€but he also believes that her illiteracy must mitigate her guilt. Had she been able to read, she would have been a factory worker, not an agent of murder. Her crimes are illiteracy's accident. Illiteracy is her exculpation."
Indeed, so much is made of the deep, deep exculpatory shame of illiteracyâ€â€despite the fact that burning 300 people to death doesn't require reading skillsâ€â€that some worshipful accounts of the novel (by those who buy into its ludicrous premise, perhaps because it's been declared "classic" and "profound") actually seem to affirm that illiteracy is something more to be ashamed of than participating in mass murder. From the Barnes & Noble Web site summary of the novel: "Michael recognizes his former lover on the stand, accused of a hideous crime. And as he watches Hanna refuse to defend herself against the charges, Michael gradually realizes that she may be guarding a secret more shameful than murder." Yes, more shameful than murder! Lack of reading skills is more disgraceful than listening in bovine silence to the screams of 300 people as they are burned to death behind the locked doors of a church you're guarding to prevent them from escaping the flames. Which is what Hanna did, although, of course, it's not shown in the film. As I learned from the director at a screening of The Reader, the scene was omitted because it might have "unbalanced" our view of Hanna, given too much weight to the mass murder she committed, as opposed to her lack of reading skills. Made it more difficult to develop empathy for her, although it's never explained why it's important that we should.
And so the film never really questions the presumption that nobody could know and thus register moral witness against mass murder while it was going on. Who could have imagined it? That's the metaphoric thrust of the Kate Winslet character's "illiteracy": She's a stand-in for the German people and their supposed inability to "read" the signs that mass murder was being done in their name, by their fellow citizens. To which one can only say: What a crock! Or if Hollywood has its way: Here's your Oscar.
Hard to believe, but it's almost unfair to say it's the fault of ignorant West Coast types. I witnessed a shocking moment of this sort of deferential ignorance in an audience of supposedly sophisticated New Yorkers, many of them Jewish.
It was a relatively small early screening for "opinion-makers," hosted by a high-profile public-relations person. Harvey Weinstein, a producer of the film, stopped by to wave at the well-connected crowd (don't ask me why I was invited, probably because I wrote Explaining Hitler) before catching a flight to London, we were told.
There was already some inside-Hollywood controversy over the film since Weinstein's co-producer Scott Rudin had his name removed from itâ€â€officially because of a dispute over the release date and whether the film was "ready," although once I saw it, I wondered whether there was more to it than that.
The word was this screening was part of a multipronged Weinstein Oscar offensive on behalf of poor Oscar-less Kate Winslet, who was up for nomination for two pictures, Revolutionary Road (a non-Weinstein production) and The Reader.
Which was why I got an angry call from the publicist the next morning after the scene I (indirectly) caused at a Q&A with the director, Stephen Daldry, held after the screening. Since my girlfriend was out of town, I brought a friend who turned out to be both outraged and outspoken about the film (and he wasn't even Jewish).
Most of the questions to the British director were polite and deferential to the point of insipidness. After all, he was a British director and the screenplay was by a famous British playwright, David Hare. Still, there was one question that turned up something interesting that few reviewers seemed to have noticed.
Daldry said he'd had a big fight with the author of The Reader, Bernhard Schlink. In the novel, when Kate's mass murderer learns to read, one of the things she reads about isâ€â€guess what?â€â€the Holocaust. We're led to believe that she's learning about it, or at least the extent of it, for the first time, from reading Primo Levi, Elie Wiesel, and Hannah Arendt, and is suitably horrified. You get the idea: Reading can develop a moral sense, a path toward redemption. (This candy-coated moral is probably what attracted Oprah when she selected The Reader for her book club and made the otherwise obscure German novel an American best-seller a decade ago.)
But Daldry said he and Hare eliminated the Holocaust education aspect of the novel (over the strong objections of Schlink) because he didn't want the film to seem to be about redemption; too many Holocaust films offer a kind of false redemptiveness, he said.
Well, good for him, but without that, he's made a film in which all the techniques of Hollywood are used to evoke empathy for an unrepentant mass murderer of Jews. The elimination of the Primo Levi reading list in the novelâ€â€however meretricious a gambit it isâ€â€deprives the literacy she achieves of any relationship to the Holocaust, which eliminates the fraudulent moral redemptiveness but also makes the film incoherent as a response to the Holocaust. Why should we care that she can read Chekhov's "Lady With Lapdog"?
Meanwhile, I could tell my friend was fuming. I was in a kind of state of numbed disbelief and rarely like to attract attention to myself by asking questions in forums such as these. My friend had no such qualms. He was outraged by the film, not just by its exculpatory thrust but by the way it achieved its end of evoking empathy for Kate Winslet with what he called "manipulative" nudity. (If you haven't seen the film, the first half-hour is devoted to Kateâ€â€in the postwar years before her arrestâ€â€seducing a teenage boy, whom she persuades to read to her before sex. There's a lot more sex than reading and a fairly shocking amount of nude close-ups of Kate's body. The teenager later becomes a law student who watches her eventual prosecution and helps her learn to read in prison. Literacy is sexy! Or something.)
The nudity, which I've had cause to reference before in a column on the irresistible (to culture-makers) attraction between Nazis and sex, gives new meaning to the word gratuitous. To my friend, it was a manipulative tool used to create intimacy with and thus empathy for an unrepentant mass murderer. And what's moreâ€â€to shocked gasps, he said exactly that to the director in the Q&A session. And didn't stop there, calling The Reader a "dishonest and mediocre" film that used nudity to disguise its thematic nakedness.
There was consternation in the room, especially among the publicists, whose minions made sure to take our names after the screening. This resulted in a high-decibel call to me the next morning from the chief publicist, telling me she'd gotten "50 calls" from people at the screening saying how "rude" my outspoken friend was, upbraiding me for bringing an impolite interloper into the screening, telling me how important it was to "the industry" that films like this succeed in the hard times we were going through, and accusing me of everything but putting a horse's head in Harvey Weinstein's bed.
"You mean you're saying I could be the death of Hollywood?" I said, incredulously unaware of my secret superpowers. I tried to explain to her my view: that it wasn't me or my friend who was the problem, it was the movie. (She later called back somewhat contritely.)
In any case, I had thought that those voting for Oscar nominations would see the problems in this incoherent, exculpatory film. But I was wrong. Kate got her Oscar nomination for Harvey's film, not the other one. The Reader got one, too.
Please, Hollywood, don't compound the error by giving the Oscar to The Reader.
Ron Rosenbaum is the author of The Shakespeare Wars and Explaining Hitler.
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:11 pm |
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getluv
i break the rules, so i don't care
Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 4:28 pm Posts: 20411
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 Re: The Reader
I would feel ashamed of myself if i said, i can't be fucked reading box's or shack's reviews but instead quoted a 10000 word essay from somewhere else to further their own agenda. It's borderline spam.
And roo is right. Loyal, i think you would be the last person I'd ever have a human conversation with about film on here. Even though you are have much knowledge about films. You come off as a hairy, arrogant fanboy if a movie is good, or a screaming old bitter banshee if a film gets in your way, even before you've seen the movie.
I think the film would have had much greater depth if it explored German guilt a bit more, instead of having the audience endure several sex scenes which proved it's point much earlier. The film is rather powerful with good intentions, but the last third nearly dismantles all the good that comes from this movie. Ralph Fiennes is miscast here but i do think the film is at it's best when Kate Winslet is on film. She's astonishing.
I give it a B-/C+.
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Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:02 pm |
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