It is time to lock this thread.

Bullshit, close box's account instead.

How long do you think it will take the rabid Batman fan to realize this, roughly speaking???

when you realize The Incredible Hulk is average

Its not a perfect film and imo I do not even considered the Godfather a perfect film either...

For major films, it is very well made and well done.

The flaws in films like Spiderman 3, made me vomit...

The more I watch The Dark Knight (and I've watched it with others to enjoy it and a few times to "study" it as a major blockbuster piece of zeitgiest) the more that I think it's flawed.

There are elements which improve on repeat viewings. Ledger is virtually flawless, I enjoy Eckhart and Oldman in the piece immensely and appreciate the roles they play. However, this is where the flaws of the film start to become more apparent.

The film is about those 3 characters, it is not about the Batman, who has that laughable breathy gruffy speech every time he's on screen (for all of Batman's technology he doesn't have a voice modulator so he doesn't have to ruin his vocal chords?). I know Bale is a better actor than this, but he brings literally 1/2 of what he brought to Batman Begins in this.

Michael Caine is vastly underused here. The non-Joker mob guys are stereotypes and have dumb fake accents and are not interesting. The ferry scenes are unchallenging and badly interjected into the film.

To top it all off... Morgan Freeman is not even great here.

So yeah, there are some brilliant aspects to this piece, but unlike Wall-E (which despite my reservations grows closer to me as I see it more and more) I just feel more and more distanced from most aspects of The Dark Knight.

Except for the fact Bale gave the best performance, then I agree.

You're right about Keaton being the best modern Batman, however it is not Bale's fault - - he's proven his psychopath cred in other films as well - - the blame is entirely Christopher Nolan's...

Shocked? No. Will people still feel the same way? I don't know, I think as time goes on passion turns into relative indifference for most people. Beyond the internet though, I don't know anybody who is still passionate about The Dark Knight anyway.


I wouldn't disagree with this, I think Nolan has re-written Batman to be a lot more like... Tony Stark, instead of someone who is truly psychologically scarred on a long term basis. Keaton played Bruce Wayne as a person who was really, really off center and isolated.

In Nolan's defense, he really has made the ancillary characters interesting, and it works as an ensemble. But Batman being a weak link in a Batman film is not a positive.

Rorshach, I didn't like the Batman in Batman Begins anyway, but at least I felt the presence that Batman was in the movie.

You can't tell what Bruce's reaction to Joker is because he is hardly in it after the last Joker scene. He has one or two conversations, but there was no time for reflection on what has happened to his character since the Ferry incident or since Lucious left, etc. Joker "pushes him to the edge" physically but I don't see a lot of character reflection in those final Batman scenes.

I still think Batman/Bruce in that film is a disaster. I've watched it 5 times trying to pull out respectable threads for Bruce, and while they do exist, they are faint.

Sorry, but that's the way I feel. Nolan really has to hit it out of the park with Bruce/Batman in part 3. It is an opportunity for him, IMO.

Roo is right. TDK doesn't reflect enough on things, big stuff happens to Bruce but the movie gives little insight how it affects him, it moves with a brisk pace yet it sometimes feels long.

The Dark Knight is what happens when an unstoppable Joker meets an unmemorable Batman: a solid A minus that could have been plus.

Putting “the loner of loners” in an ensemble piece was a bold move that backfired a bit. It's a good job that a film as good as this can take a few body blows, because Christian Bale just didn't do it for me. Batman's unique tenor doesn't work in a chorus line. When the focus is on him and him alone, or maybe shared with one or two equally eccentric villains, I can buy into the whole idea of the Dark Knight. But when we see him sharing the spotlight with a whole rake of more plausible characters - like a limelight-hungry DA or a tired-but-incorruptible police officer - he becomes the 300lb gorilla in the room: a man who dresses like a bat and talks in a stupid gruff voice. When you see him at a crime scene, you half expect to hear people muttering "Why the f*** is that dude dressed like a bat? Who let him in?"

The whole "Gotham needs a hero with a face" was great at first, but just didn't seem plausible to me after Batman lost the girl and Harvey Dent turned bad – especially not when Batman decided to take the rap for Two Face's homicidal streak. I guess Bale didn't get enough screen time or lines to sell the role to me this time round. Luckily, the action, plot, remainder of the cast, and one or two unexpected but truly brilliant moments ("Give it to me. You can tell 'em I took it by force. Give it to me, and I'll do what you shoulda did ten minutes ago" - and, "Would you like to know which of them were cowards?") save the day ten times over.

What about Heath Ledger? A performance that was slightly (and understandably) just a tiny bit overrated, but still brilliant. It's a tribute to his acting that I know exactly what Ledger looks like, but couldn't for the life of me picture his face during the film. That's not down to the make up or latex scars: it's down to the acting. When he delivered his lines, his cheeks literally collapsed into character. He looked like he was sucking a sweet, or maybe rolling a cyanide capsule thoughtfully round his mouth. In a nod to the Joker's iconic status, he says he can imagine him and Batman "doing this forever." So can I - but events overtook us, and the franchise will be poorer for it.

As swansongs go, it's worth comparing Ledger's Joker to the other, I guess equally tragic end of the farewell spectrum - say, Raúl Juliá in Street Fighter. In fact, as Ledger ambled into shot, I could almost imagine Juliá's voice hissing, "Yes... your turn now," from beyond the grave. For me, Jack Nicholson made a better Joker because his was more faithful to the one I grew up with... but Ledger produced a more compelling character, and a more memorable performance, than anything that ever had a speech bubble coming out of it.

This was a great film with some fantastic moments, only let down by Batman himself. I'll definitely look forward to the next instalment, but hope that the Caped Crusader integrates with the rest of the third film a little better. I'm giving the rebooted franchise two A minuses so far, and hope that the next one fulfils its A plus potential.

Happy Christmas guys,

I'm pleased to see the first wave of the hype-tsunami is starting to recede, and that people are able to go about rebuilding their personal opinions. Of course, we still have the aftershock waves of the IMAX re-release, and the horrible gnashing and groaning when it doesn't win the Oscar. But soon, we will live in a world where the shackles of hype are loosened so much that any eager slave can cast them off...

Metacritic has TDK down to an 82% score and dropping, and there are several quite realistic reviews of the film available. I suggest starting with Stephanie Zacharek at Salon.com.

For those just awakening from their hype-induced stupor...

Welcome Back!

Jesus, I'll cover the door for ya.. Run while you can..

I just don't see why it's so hard for you to deal with the fact that people loved a movie you did not, Bradley. You're so incredibly condescending.

I'm not some crazy fanboy freak and I think The Dark Knight is the best movie that came out this year (and I was never a HUGE fan of Batman). Get over it.

I find the film overrated and will be one of the first to admit bradley was right about the hype effect. The film was good, maybe even great, but amongst the best of all time? At least not on my list.

films still top 50 of all time and i've seen it probably 8 or 9 times

It's been at 82 since its release.

pawned.

Why thank-you for your kind support Darth!

Incorrect. TDK was at 94 on Metacritic after it's release.

Why didn't Lau see the connection between Fox visiting his offices and being captured by Batman in what appears to be the same day. They took all the trouble to cover Wayne's disappearance to Shanghai but why couldn't they also just track Fox. Surely the fact that he was *just* in Gotham meeting with Wayne Enterprises days before be enough to draw a connection. Shouldn't this, and the existence of Reece, a known Wayne Enterprises employee in a powerful position, be enough to point heavily towards heavy involvment by Wayne Enterprises?

It's really been at 82 since after a week after it came out.