I would say it's questionable if ONLY mods have access to that forum.

The misconstrued things you stated about my PM to you regarding me saying "your a bad member" were enough for me. It has become obvious you have other intentions here, rather than simply remedying the situation.

learn to live with it.

Once again. Let me explain something to you. Noone other than a mod has every had access to that forum. The forum Loyal and Tony were allowed in was Rougecommander's private game forum.

Let me talk you through this.

You said that I said at the forums...

"You leave a message in 'THe Site' about how you've lost compelte faith in the mods for them voting for loyal.

When the fact was, I said...

"My confidence and support for this group is no longer there. (most) Thanks for understanding."

And that had to do with lots of stuff, but you tacked on your ending to try to make a case, and I never said that.

You have every PM under the sun except for that one. Funny, isn't it. You said that I was the problem, and I had potential to be a good member, but I wasn't.

paraphrasing...BAD MEMBER!

and really .. this was a new low for you. you're arguing with me about a change of small word and claiming victory over something like that? again, this is just showing that this isn't about me being dishonorable, in the wrong or things being unfair. you want another little victory under your belt. thats fine mav. i'm not here to win an argument. where i'm wrong, i'll point it out, where i'm not, i'll let it be known. if you can ascertain little victories for yourself through all of that, i'll be happy to send you a hallmark card congratulating you for it.

well i apologise for putting the pms to the mods, my talks with eagle, your PM to me and that post in the site followed by the replies on the same day together. i'll make sure i don't do that again and i'll make it a point to inform the justice systems all over the world not to gather up evidence next time and connect the different pieces of the puzzles together.

Do you have the PM Mav?

No, you don't. Other people have seen the PM. Baba has seen it, ask him what he thought of it. You can continue to remove it from it's context all you please.

That was the argument you were trying to make. It wasn't a small word change, you accused me of being the reason that loyal found out because, as you claimed, I said it at the forums. Hardly a small detail that didn't need corrected, and there was nothing "low" about me doing so. The mods went to him. Violated a private conversation between them and a member, and showed where their loyalties were. And I'm supposed to think they do a great job and can be trusted? Not in this lifetime. Not them or anybody who tries to defend that shit.

Again, none of the mods or bABA will be considered credible witnesses.

Side Note: Me, Arsi, and several mods have had the privledge of these exact same converstaions over, and over, and over for the past 3 months.

I just want it to end, and I am praying a member, or someone, can intervene in some way.

Side Note: And you, arsi, and several mods keep doing things that just reek of a lack of consideration, so , of course, you're going to hear about it when it affects me. I only trust one mod. Why don't you perhaps look in the mirror, and you might find the answer to how to stop it. Instead of trying to redirect everything at me, look within yourselves.

Bummer wish I didn't over sleep this morning as I would like to review both threads before commenting.

Just to review and see where everything really sits

no .. i recall mentioning more than just the public message. stop taking parts of my statements and basing your argumets on those. atleast i had the curtesy to copy paste your comments.

so yea .. don't isolate that and say my argument was just that. this is what i had said

Hmmm. Perhaps practicing what you preach?

Mav, when you're having a great time in the forums, everyone genuinely enjoys you. There's no argueing that when you're on a roll its one of the funnest things to experience. On the other hand you have a tendency to pull a 180 on everyone within virtual arms length if they disagree with you. The massive accusations and slander far transcend small strifes about box office runs or the (dis)like of a particular movie. You create volatile threads because you know they're going to jump to ten pages in length, get everyone excited, and be good fun. But then you're shocked when other aspects of that volatilability pop up. They're part of the package. Can't stand the heat than don't light the fire.

I like your fire, I also know you've accused almost 30 members at one point or another for being completely debased of morals simply because they do not fall in line with yours. You've also resorted to language that makes my ears burn..which is saying something considering that messgae board isn't even in audio form.

Have fun, get into BO fights. Get some great 10 page threads going, but seriously, you can't micromanage a message board. You can't make the entire place fall in line behind you and chant your praises by bullying your way through a dozen accusatory threads. Either win people over with your charisma, or accept the fact you come here to speak with ten great friends (and you do have them. I could probably name names...people I notice who are very excited when you make a post, and some that have even spoken with you in person) and that no one else is going to get under your skin.

I come here for the latter option. I do my best not freak at certain comments by posters, and everyone is only human. I've broken down on occassion, and everyone you've mentioned has too. We allow for that here, and are very lenient. But there's a different between a flame once a month and ten flames every day. You're a responsible adult with alot on your platter. Its up to you what you consume and what you don't.

You're apparently recording now, and have alot of things going for you. Do you really want to waste your time picking these fights and trying to coerce a couple chat fellows into loving you? Its not going to happen. Pick where you choose to invest your energies carefully.

Very well said, dolce. Couldn't say it better myself.

Mav, I know we're in no position of telling you what you should do, but sometimes it's better if you can step back and look at everything from all angles. There is no conspiracy here. We have a lot of different personalities and opinions in the forum that help to make what it is today, and it's absurd to think somehow the admin and mod team could brainwash everyone to be against you. It's not our faults that you have engaged in verbal fights with more members than any others have. For example, I know you have vastly different opinions on Libs and Dolce, but both are among the most popular posters around. Lecter is your friend, and he is also a great friend to a lot of us. It's not as if we have a small circle of people who praise the hell out of each other and try to isolate you and people you like. Also, about the question you asked me about why I picked the side against you at every opportunity, the answer is I didn't. I looked at each thread separately and only contribute to what is on my mind. I promptly congratulate you with the Monster-in-Law 25M prediction, and I readily offer my apology when I mistaken your tone in another thread. It's not good when you are so sensitive and argumentative at the same time. You have a lot of energy that people appreciate, but it'll be even better if you don't always try to get the last word in and argue with people in a condescending tone.

dolce and xia, it didn't matter if I was nice as can be or hostile, you both only saw one thing, and I think you need to look in the mirror here about that, especially you, xia, as a moderator needs to be observant on such things, and you never have been.

I see myself perfectly fine Mav. If someone warns me for being abbrassive towards goldie in a recent post, and the mods deem it worthy of a warning, than like hell I'll take what's coming to me with no grudges. I think twice before hitting the post button, and am not in denial about how transparent my actions are. I don't turn around and then accuse the mods and admin of picking on me, since I'm responsble for my actions and know quite well what I was doing.

As for me only seeing one thing in you, I've actually already mentioned several. Including your great contributions to discussions when you're on good behavior, and the fact that some people love it when you post here. Now if you chose to only focus on the fact I also noticed you've earned yourself a growing list of members you attack, that's your decision.

Now my question to you is mostly the point of all these posts? What are you expecting to gain from them? What if you don't hear what you're expecting. Did you want everyone to chip in and say "Yeah Mav, we totally agree with you. You are so right I don't know how we've been misguided since October. Thanks for shedding some light on the situation." Is that it? I think if you want to see a mod change, it might be best to suggest new organizational schema, or make recommendations for who you'd like to see. That might actually lead to a more productive discussion than finger pointing and name-calling.

Granted, that may not pan out the way you're expecting it either, as I can only speak for myself (others may chip in if they desire) that the mods are doing a superb job handling the forums, and have created a great environment despite a couple early faux-pas.

I think Xia is superb and has really stepped up to bat considering I just lopped the whole position on him under a small miscommunication we had. As far as the rest of the mods, I know personally that torri and makeshift have struggled with finding a crisp way to encourage the rules, and they've handled themselves quite maturely. I warned all of them earlier that there are plenty of situations (such as now) where members are not technically breaking rules, but aren't exactly productively contributing to discussions. After a detailed discussion they've really thought about how to handle these particular special situations in the way most easy on everyone. I have nothing but high compliments to them. As I do for all the mods. Zingy is the most active and positive thread builder in all the forums here. bABA and Eagle handle so much between the mods, the site, the forums, and they're always attentive, nuetral, and open-minded. Libs is the most solid forum builder, and because of her I still push for the mods/forum alignment, and Mike comes up with challenged/games/ceremonies with alot of energy to stimulate the forums members. Every single mod is quite gracious and giving of their time and energies, and individuals may not always agree with one or two of their judgements, but there's no argueing how grandely this forum has flourished under their general guidance.

They're a work in process and I've already seen them come a long way developing plans for building the forums and how to act upon the rules. When I have criticism and tell them, they've been quite responsive. Most likely its because my criticisms are with considerations to the entire forums, and in fact are not beneficial to my immediate needs and desires.

dolce, I decided to go public so that the forum members who aren't part of the special little group here could see what's going on. Have you not noticed that you guys are all focussed on my flaws, and, once again, excusing the fact that your buddy loyal once again started his shit? How many times has he been caught in lies, yet I'm the only one that's been called a liar. It's a tired old song and dance, but it hasn't gone unnoticed by me. The MO of the mods here is to try to redirect toward something else, and complately avoid taking responsibility, and if it's something that doesn't affect them or their pals, they blow it off as meaningless.

Would you like a phone call from me dolce? I'll bet the hypocrisy would come out real quick with the leadership here if I decided to track down info of yours that you didn't provide me with and contacted you. Do you think that "innocent before proven guilty" bullshit would fly if I told them "I don't know how my phone dialed her number. Damn that Ohio Edison! "

I mean, comeon, there is absolutely no good judgement or common sense being shown here, and they are instead spending their enegry as if I'm the one who's in the wrong. That's just pathetic.

So this whole thing basically boils down to a pissing contest between Mav and loyal?

And Mav, discussing PMs in an Admin forum is pretty common practice, I would think. I'm a mod at the official Halloween message board, and if a member has a complaint about someone else -- or the site in general -- and sends a PM to a Mod, it's posted on the board so that we can all see it and figure out the best course of action. I'd think that's more them trying to overcome any possible bias than trying to betray your trust of privacy.

Do those mods also take it upon themselves to report this stuff to non mods, something that was done, and Eagle and bABA somehow tried to convince everyone was my fault?

Yeah, speaking about it to non-mods is in pretty bad taste.

Mav, other than the fact that you and loyal have had your problems through this forum, what does that e-mail outside of the forum have to do with the forum? I mean, the e-mail is related to something inside of the forum, but did he get your e-mail from the forum? No. You have some ".cs" e-mail address in your profile, so we have no idea how he retrieved your password. You're assuming he's "stalking" you because he ended up with your e-mail address.

But, honestly, why do you expect us to ban someone who didn't break a forum rule by contacting you outside of the forum? imtim83 has IMed me a bunch of times in the past week saying "Hello" or "You know what your problem is?". Do you think I care enough to ask for a banning? No.

i'd like all those people to stand up and tell me everytime i came running along and sent them a message about mav's latest pm to me. i'd really like to know who all these people are, what was said and when it was said.