Yep, my two favorite musicals, better than Grease, better than Singin' in the Rain, much better than the Umbrellas of Cherbourg, are Cabaret and Chicago. Coincidentally, both are Bob Fosse's brainchilds. That guy had a bit of a drak streek going for him. Always about these performers climbing their way to the top amidst these reallt raumatic and violent places and eras.

Anyways, when one thinks about the content and vision, Cabaret was probably better, but lets admit it Joel Grey was a bit unsettling of a character, and so was general pre-WWII Berlin. Chicago definately was more up beat in its glamorization of violence and show biz, and I like the dance sequences better. Both of them were superbly acted, and were smart in the use of merging performers with their routines. Seemed less random to have Zeta-Jones or Minelli on stage singing as they should be than randomly singing in the rain. I just think the stories are very smart, and there is something about the violent elements that are interesting rather than sugar coated, mostly because, at least in Chicago, they're clearly humorous. Cabaret was much more serious, and ultimately more disturbing. Cabaret is probably the smartest musical ever to come to screen, and Chicago is probably the funnest (discounting Xanadu, that movie is uber-fun, but for different reasons).

Too bad Fosse was dead by the time Chicago won best pic to compensate for the sad fact that Cabaret just barely missed out.










Oh yeh, and I was listening to the soundtrack for Chicago on the trains today. Its pretty good, I'm surprised how well almost everyone in it pulled off the songs.

If you are talking about BEST Fosse musicals, especially dark ones, I have to include ALL THAT JAZZ. It hits all of your requirements, for me.

IT'S SHOWTIME.

You know, where I used to work I saw the cover so many times, and wanted to take it home. I think its about performers trying to make it (big surprise) and it looks really good. I haven't seen it though, I've only seen these two. He was a smart guy, and I love how he brought a very dark element to his stage (and stage to screen) productions. I'm definately going to see all that jazz as soon as I can. Chicago is here as a live musical too, and I don't usually do broadway theatre type shows but I am considering this one.

When I first moved to Chicago, it was about two weeks before the movie hit home distribution. I'm pretty sure it was Marshall Field's (but might be confusing the dept. store) had all the manequins in the windows outfitted with the dresses from the movie. They are really gorgeous dresses when you looks at them up close. Had it not been a gazillion dollars, I would have tried to get my hands on the black one zeta-jones wears in the opening sequence.

West Side Story, Singin' in the Rain, The King and I, Rocky Horror, Fiddler on the Roof, and My Fair Lady are my favorites.

I hated Sound of Music. Perhaps the most overrated movie ever. It was catchy the first time but now the scenes with Julie Andrews with her arms wide out (what are YOU happy about?) just cracks me up.

Moulin Rouge and Chicago are iffy choices. Moulin Rouge has rewatchability but it isn't much of a musical. It's, like, the David Bowie show. You hear his stuff all over the place (Nature Boy, Ewan's Heroes, Beck's Diamond Dogs). It's fairly uneven. Right after the scenes with the duke (in Nicole's bedroom) where they draft out their new play, it slows down and doesn't pick up until the Roxanne scene. Chicago, on the other hand, is too stylized (not to say Moulin Rouge isn't). It's well-made and there's even some parts that can crack up a stiff teen that favors action (namely every scene with Queen Latifah). The best part is the press interview with the puppets. I haven't seen the play - is that in there?

Bigger surprise - it isn't anything close to that. Sorry just teasing you.

No, there are some aspects where his ex-wife and current mistress are involved in his plays. Plus he has a young daughter.

But here is the main premise. Roy Schnider, from Jaws fame, plays an exagerated version of Bob Fosse. As he is dying of lung cancer, he is trying to finish a play that he is making very over the top.

Plus there are also, I think as it is fuzzy and I haven't seen in 10 years, scenes that take place in his DRUGGED OUT mind as they are doing a big celebration of his life - Jessica Lange is a Angel of Death and Ben Vereen is the Master of Ceremony.

For now, that is all I will say but I just check IMDB and it has a very good rating of about 7.5.

I'm a big West Side Story / Mary Poppins / Wizard of Oz / The Wiz / Rocky Horror type musical fan... oh hell I'll add Tommy and Jesus Christ Superstar too...

I dig Moulin Rouge (as in, I think it may be one of the crowning cinematic achievements of this decade) because I dig that the film is completely utterly non-stop insane, a pop culture curiousity, and has a lot of resonance and nostalgia that wrapped up the 20th century. I would agree that it's not a traditional musical, but that's its genius.

Hedwig and the Angry Inch is a modern musical that is absolutely genius. Some might not call it a strict musical, but the songs are wonderful and shocking.

Chicago seemed to be framed in its dance sequences (which was Roxie's mental escape) but everything outside those just lacked the depth that I thought it could have had. I'll echo torrino's comments and say the "They Both Reached for the Gun" part of Chicago was the best, and besides the solo Roxie song, has a hard time picking up after the "All That Jazz" opening.

I hated The Wiz and Tommy. Tommy is excellent in the actual theatre, though. It just seems better fit for the contrived story...

Hedwig was great. I've heard the play is better, though.

Moulin Rouge, I thought, was uneven. It starts off with the excellent first hour and never picks up. Is it just us getting accostumed to Luhrmann's style and being able to tolerate the art direction or is it simply that it's getting boring? However, I'd agree. It's quite an achievement, more so than Strictly Ballroom and Romeo and Juliet.

I could've done without the Pink/Lil' Kim/Christina Aguilera/Mya remake of that song, though.

dolce, the Chicago score is pretty strong. Zellweger did well, as did Latifah. Gere and Zeta Jones could've been better, but in general the album sounds as good as most broadway recordings.

I thought Zeta Jones was great. Gere kind of was a bit nasal for me, but alot of musicals are, so that's fine. The music is pretty catchy. I like it anyways.

When you're good to Mama..... :wink:

Everybody I know who doesn't like Moulin Rouge thinks it is the exact opposite, they hate the gaudy and hyper first hour and love the love story second half.


I dunno... I mean, I love Tarkovsky movies so I don't really know anything about what bores other people. I think... maybe like Pleasantville or similar films, that if you expected the film to have the same basic structure throughout the whole movie based on the first 1/3 it can be a little jarring, but to me, the fact that it flips and just descends into hell (a rape? t.b.? oh my!) just enhances everything about the VERY melodramatic ending.


Yeah, but it's quite different from them in many ways. But I do think the first 1/3 of Moulin was a lot like Romeo + Juliet.


Yeah, fortunately that version of the song is not really featured in the movie. When I saw Moulin Rouge in it's origional theatrical run (a fact that I am proud about!) the intercutting of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and "Lady Marmelade" just... well... creeps me out to no end. Something really menacing about it. Actually, a lot of why that soundtrack/film score/whatever works is because it twists those songs and makes them a little sacrastic and dark in my view.

Queen Latifah owned Chicago. I thought Renee did well too. I think Zeta Jones and Gere could easily have been replaced by virtually any actor(ess) and the film wouldn't have lost anything.

Moulin Rouge, despite being one of my favorite movies, gave me a huge headache when I saw it in the theatre. I was sitting too close to the screen, and the hypermanicness of it all made for a lot of Tylenol use.

Chicago is another one of my favorites. Loved it. Zeta-Jones' delivery of "All That Jazz" might be the movie's highlight, but "They Both Reached for the Gun" and "Cell Block Tango" were fabulous, too.

addr0ck, just noticed your Hedwig comment. 'Tis true, genius movie. Even snuck animation in for goodness sakes. Very intelligent and once again uses the concept of a performer (or a split from reality and dream/memory) so that it doesn't seem like people are jstrandomly breaking out in song and dance. Very gritty too. I went to MAC and asked to buy the lipstick Hedwig had, they informed me that the make-up line was made specially for the movie, and that it wasn't available for regular purchase. I was crushed.




I know Luhman and I still didn't get that into Moulin Rouge! About the only thing I liked was Kidman getting TB, because I'm into that kind of macabre stuff. Anywho...

Heard that they were going to do a musical remake of Kiss of the SPider Woman. I see how that could work if all the song and dance parts just replace the scene Braga was in, but I can see how this movie could seriously suck too. Scares me, since the book is one of my favorites, and the movie is one of my top 100.

andaroo, if I didn't like Moulin Rouge, I wouldn't have called it an achievement. I did like it, I just think it needs a smoother transition between the two parts...

I wish the 2-Disc was still availble. I hate FOX. I missed out on that, Fight Club, and Rocky Horror. Bummer.

It's hard to compare musicals that are dramas to musicals that are comedies. It gets even harder when you compare musicals that are animated. I mean, the basic feel of Cabaret is nothing like the basic feel of Mary Poppins, and I think they are both great films. I'm not sure I can compare them based solely on the fact that people sing in both of them. (Hey, they sing in Spinal Tap and A Hard Day's Night, too!)

Some of my favorite musicals are:

The Hunchback of Notre Dame
Singing in the Rain
Moulin Rogue
Cabaret
Aladdin
Mary Poppins
Beauty and the Beast
The Pirates of Penzance
Rocky Horror Picture Show
Little Shop of Horrors
Mulan
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum
Cry Baby
Yellow Submarine

Wait all those aren't available anymore! Suck! Those three are among the three best DVDs I ever bought!

- Looks like I have to give you some brownie points as at least you have heard of All That Jazz, seems like not many people have even heard of it, yet alone have seen it.

- And Chicago is worth seeing on the stage, I saw it in London a couple of years ago and it was fun/good.

i love Zeta Jones and Zelwegger in Chicago. it was my favorite musical movie.

Heh, forgot about Disney. I guess you're right those are all musicals. My favorite of those would be Beauty and the Beast, I feel like its been downhill since then. Your distinction between comedy and drama make sense, and had it not been for the song and dance, I probably would not be grouping Cabaret with Singin' in the Rain. I would, however, still associate Rocky Little Shop of Horror with Chicago. They're dark comedies that have enough to do, oddly, with violence, performance, and mobility.

I thought Mary Poppind was cute, but I haven't seen it in so many years. Cry Baby I've not seen, but is it with Johhny Depp? That would be...interesting to say the least.

Forum is just outright kookie, heh. Funny, but I couldn't sit through it. I had to watch it in two different viewings.

****************

I've noticed alot of comments about how "stylized" Chicago was. Why did that bother everyone? I knew from the posters months before it came out that it was going to be a big, glossy, piece of work. It was pretty seamlessly woven, and while it dedicated alot more time to the music, and less to the parts in between, I didn't really find that bothersome. Honestly, there was that much to tell in between heh?

Oliver!