http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeper/c ... ep131.html

'Brokeback' bitching



Author Annie Proulx, who penned the original short story on which "Brokeback Mountain" was based, has joined the chorus of "Brokeback" complainers. In the Guardian, Proulx writes:

"The people connected with 'Brokeback Mountain,' including me, hoped that, having been nominated for eight Academy Awards, it would get Best Picture as it had at the funny, lively Independent Spirit Awards the day before. (If you are looking for smart judging based on merit, skip the Academy Awards next year and pay attention to the Independent Spirit choices.) We should have known the conservative heffalump academy voters would have rather different ideas of what was stirring contemporary culture ..."

I guess that would be the same conservative voting body that awarded best song to "It's Hard Out There for a Pimp."

One week after the Oscars, I'm still hearing from fans of "Brokeback" who are offended and outraged by the best picture win for "Crash." Some folks are even calling me terrible names for predicting a "Crash" victory and saying I didn't believe "Brokeback" should have been nominated.

What can I say? On my list of 2005's best movies, I had "Brokeback Mountain" at No. 7, behind "Syriana," "The New World," "Crash," "Munich," "Nine Lives" and "Capote." So that means I'm homophobic? Please.

The "Brokeback" camp seems to feel their film is morally superior to the other nominated films, particularly "Crash," and that a vote against "Brokeback" is a vote against tolerance.

What a bunch of bull.

Why is a film about two gay cowboys more noble than a film about race relations? Or a movie about an Israeli hit squad avenging the massacre at the Munich Olympic Games? Or a film about an author's book about the murders of an innocent family? Or a movie about a journalist's crusade against a witch-hunting senator?

In two decades of writing about movies, I have never heard such bitching and moaning and griping about a film not winning best picture. Enough is enough. You lost. Try to handle it with some grace.

I'm getting reaaaaaaaally sick of people turning this into a "Brokeback fanatics" issue. A lot of people just thought Crash shouldn't have won. At all. Period.

Roeper doesn't understand that there is this added bitchiness because of the actual film that won, not only because Brokeback lost. For a lot of people, including me, it's just the fact that Crash won. If Good Night and Good Luck had pulled ahead and won the Oscar over Brokeback, you wouldn't be hearing a word from me (I was going to use Munich as the example, but technically I haven't seen it yet).

I also love how such a hypocrit he is being. We're not allowed to bitch, but they (Roeper and Ebert) bitch all the time, especially on their show in regards to the Academy not giving props to certain films they like.

PEACE, Mike.

Ya, I'm sick of the fact that people who complain about the one who are complaining make it seem like it's a one-dimensional argument, when it is so not.

Mike pointed out that it was Crash winning, not Brokeback losing that caused the upset for him.
Xiayun's argument is based on logictics and numbers and how it's so unprecedented that there should be more to it.

I'm not upset over Crash beating Brokeback. I still think Crash is a worthy film. But I'm also convinced that the Oscars aren't in the business of handing out awards based on merit... they like to shake things up when they can, make statements, sets the tone of the entertainment industry. And this felt not only like a suspicious deviation from that but also like a personal slap in the face.

I don't think you can argue against the fact that more than any other Best Picture contest, alot of people actually had quite personal investments in the front-runner. so you're really surprised that this is causing such a widespread debate?

I'm not saying we should keep debating it and there are alot of people out there who are quite annoying in their complaints, but you can't not acknowledge that there was much more riding on this year's Best Picture than any other in recent history.

Crash supporters will always make articles about how other people bitch about Crash winning, so nobody can forget that Crash won, since if they didnt, Crash talk would be over and done with. Ebert and Roeper will probably make a Crash reference on the show every week for a year. They should just go down on Haggis, all three of them would enjoy that.

"A film about gay cowboys"? How old is Roeper? Seven? And can he be any more of a tool?

Surely he meant "Why is a film about two gay cowboys more noble than a film about spoiled rich white people feeling guilty, or clumsy israeli spies, or a fat journalist being bitchy, orjournalists in black and white talking a lot"?

BTW, Roeper was the first one to say that "Crash" should win because It was "important". I guess the other films weren´t "important" enought to him...

You are actually dead wrong on this one Mike. There have been films that have won before that people didn't like winning. But never has there been so much wining and bitching about it and it all has to do with the fact that the film is about two gay guys. If it was a film about a guy cowboy and a girl cowboy falling in love, the film would have been recognized in some ways, but far from the accolades that it deserved. If people wrote that they were disappointed that it lost, that is one thing, but to completely trash the other film is a true lack of class.

Could be a combination of both: a passion for Brokeback and a huge contempt for Crash. How would you like it if your least favorite movie of the year beat out your favorite movie? Fire in the hole!!!

My hate for Roeper is now growing...

I'm whining about the Crash win because Crash was not a good film. Sure, I only saw 2/5 of the nominated movies, but IMO Munich was MILES better than Crash and it had no support whatsoever! I can't imagine how good Brokeback was...

But yeah, Baumer, you are the incorrect one here. Sorry to rain on your parade. I also trashed Crash before it won BP...

I'm not wrong, you can't tell someone is wrong for their opinion. And my opinion is that Brokeback is the inferior film. It's actually not even close.

OOOOK Baumer... keep being your good 'ol self...

Oh yeah...

Pwned

You have no basis to say i was pwned. We have a different opinion, that is far from grounds of pwn'ing. Pwning is when you prove someone wrong. Your opinion that Crash is inferior to Brokeback is just an opinion. And if you read my post again to Mike Q, you'll see that I am telling him that he is wrong about what Roeper is saying.

My point about the Brokeback/Crash theory is this:

There have been way more egregious wins at oscar time. Annie Hall, Chicago, Ordinary People, Shakespeare in Love, Silence of the Lambs, The Last Emperor, Chariots of Fire, Gandhi, The English Patient and finally Million Dollar Baby. All these films should have far more of an outcry. Chariots of Fire beating Raiders of the Lost Ark? ARe you friggin kidding me? The best pure action film ever made and it loses to a film that no one even remembers? Why? Because of academy envy. They shut out Spielberg in 75, 77, then again in 82, 85 and then finally gave him the prize in 93. A joke. What about Chicago? What a piece of shit that film was. A nomination for Queen Latifa? For what? Singing? And Renee Zelwegger? HAH!!!! The Enlgish PATIENT over Fargo? Silence of the Lambs over one of the five best films ever made, JFK, another joke. E.T. is also one of the top five films ever, and although Gandhi is a very good film, it is safe for the academy to pick that over at that time, the biggest grossing film of all time. Another joke is Shakespeare in Love. An ABC after school special with boobs. That is the worst case of money buying the Weinsteins an oscar. This has to be one of the grossest injustices ever at the oscars. The film is a decent way to pass an afternoon thundershower, but to award it hte best picture of the year when Spielberg made one of the finest, if not the finest war film ever. But the academy is too corrupt to award the true best picture that year. A Beautiful Mind? Rubbish..again another fantasy film gets robbed.

The point is that the academy has and always will have an agenda. They get it right sometimes with films like Titanic and American Beauty winning, or giving Spielberg, Cameron and Polanski oscars. But the academy is up for sale. So you can think that Brokeback is a better film, that is your right, but the backlash towards Crash is downright laughable. All winy suckasses make it sound like this is the first film in the 78 year history of the Oscars that a film got robbed. What about in 1941 when Citizen Kane lost to How Green was my Valley? How Green Was my Valley? What the fuck is that? Now I hate Citizen Kane with all more heart, but it is considered to be the best movie ever made by film historians and it was robbed at gunpoint by a film that no one knows from a documentary on fungus. Looks at 1946...The Best Years of our Lives beats It's a Wonderful Life?!!?? One of the most beloved films of our time gets bitch slapped by another film that sails into anonymity. 1947, A Gentleman's Agreement beats Miracle on 34th Street, you don't think there was collasal bitching back then? Hamlet beats Treasure of Sierra Madre? Why? Because of Olivier? Another gross miscalculation by the academy. 1961 we have another Chicago on our hands as the vastly over rated West Side Story, about two gangs dancing and singing together before the want to knife each other, beating out Judgment At Nuremburg. What kind of farce is this? Another terrible "decision" by the Warren Commission. How about 1967? In The Heat of the Night beats out a trio of seemingly better films in The Graduate, Bonnie and Clyde and Guess Who's Coming to Dinner. What a joke. 1973..the Sting beating out The immensely popular and genre defining The Exorcist and American Graffiti? Sure. Then you have my favourite, and that is One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, a good film, beating out the best film ever made and the highest grossing, genre defining, box office defining, summer film launching JAWS. Up until this point, this is the biggest con job ever. Another shining example of how a film about humans overcoming disease or circumstance to triumph in some way. Yet JAWS would have been the right pick as it is the better film. There still hasn't been a better film some 31 years later.

So ChipMunky, dine on this and get back to me when your "opinion" has some substance. The academy has always picked controversial films to win best picture. And this horsecrap where Brandon equates Box office to wins is nothing but horsecrap. It really wasn't until the mid 90's when hugely grossing films won best picture. JAWS, THE EXORCIST, RAIDERS, ET, STAR WARS, are just some of the examples of films that were top grossing of their year and they lost the best picture race. Forrest Gump, Titanic Gladiator, Rain Man and Return of The Ring are only a handfull of recent films to win best picture with the highest grosses. Other than, more times that not, it's some little film about someone with cancer or missing limbs or nasal problems that wins best picture. So don't go down the road of this sanctimoniously claiming that Crash is the worst best picture ever. Trust me son, there are a littany of oscar winning films that take that prize by a knockout. Crash was a great film. The best of the year? Maybe not, but neither was Brokeback. Two very good films for sure, but there were plenty of other films that weren' even mentioned this year to get shafted. Check back at the list of winners and you'll see more times that not that the film that was favoured to win, doesn't. The academy is infamous for that. There is really no ryhme or reason why some films win and some don't.

However, this year they got it right.

Baumer, you are STILL bitching about YOUR films not winning BP even YEARS after they lost, and your telling ME to stop bitching about a film that, IMO and many others thought was a joke of a film?!?!

You've got to be kidding me. Everyone bitches and moans about the BP win if it's not their film, and you are in that crowd. Handle it with some grace?!?!? Fuck that

I'll bitch and moan til the cows come home... and I'll let you bitch and moan too. I'm not gonna tell people how they should be reacting to a win at the Oscars. That's just ridiculous

Here's some tissue, for the both of us.

Well... that is the... basic gist...

The bitching is fine for now. I mean, it's only been less than 10 days. It's not completely old news. But, if this is still going on in August, there's a problem.

I was pissed when "Walk the Line" didn't get a BP nomination, but I was fine a week or two later. The anger will pass.

I'm still pissed that Wizard of Oz lost to GWTW....

Well, I guess you're screwed, then!

The bithicng is fun, I may disagree with it but its causing the critisc debate the oscar win and bite back at each other. Prolousx is stirring the pot, and its fun to watch. Shoud sh ehave just said congratualtions and gone on her merry little wya maybe, but instead she wa shonest and I'm liking the arguing.

And, well this will still be going on in 30 ears in some level, it goes along with the Oscars.

I'm with Mike. I would have been overcome with joy if Munich or Good Night and Good Luck pulled off the win. Those two went one and three on my top of the year list. Hell, even Capote made my top ten, and is growing in my estimations, actually.

To be honest, I would have preferred Batman Begins won. At least then we'd be acknowledging our desire for easy yet quality, raw entertainment and storytelling.

And everyone who is stirring it up, on both sides, are laughing their way to the bank, so don't none of you worry.

BTW, Hillary Rodham-Clinton and Ang Lee spotting at the MOMA last Friday! I <3 Hillary!

Hmmm, that is what the film is about, though. No matter how much several people want to make it seem otherwise, THAT IS the plot of the film.

I think that is the most fitting explanation. It is a combination of the two.

Roeper writes about movies? where? 20 years he's been doing this? really? I had no idea. I'd be interested in reading his reviews, once in a while, but everytime i check his site all I see is him complaining about Oprah (or someone like that, Martha Stewart maybe?)

*hits ChipMunky*

Stop using logic in this forum, you can't bitch, instead we have to bow down to the crash club and hope next yera we can somehow join them. They however can bitch, but not us,nope.