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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
Umm, Shack makes it more complicated than it is. It is actually quite simple.
He is beaten at the Gaslight. Then we jump back a week or so and the rest of the film builds up to that night when he is beaten up. That is ALL there is to it.
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:27 am |
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trixster
loyalfromlondon
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:31 pm Posts: 19697 Location: ville-marie
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
shack is wrong (as per usual), he writes two notes (one the first morning of the film, and one the morning of the gaslight fight)
_________________Magic Mike wrote: zwackerm wrote: If John Wick 2 even makes 30 million I will eat 1,000 shoes. Same. Algren wrote: I don't think. I predict. 
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:03 am |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
lolshack
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:58 am |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 40584
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
Ok I re-watched the scenes and actually both the morning scenes and the Gaslight performance are not IDENTICAL. The timing is a little bit off in moments. The guy who beats him up moves towards him and talks at a little different points than at the beginning. When Llewyn does his little peek-a-boo hello? into the hallway the lighting is different and the cat walks past him maybe 0.05 seconds earlier or something the 2nd time. The scene where the cat wakes him up a little different, the first time it jumps on him then to the window, the 2nd time it's just on him and then he makes a greater motion to wake up. (this could also have happened at different times though - the cat jumps on him, to the window, Llewyn dozes off, then the cat jumps on him again to wake him up) So the Coens were just not rolling back their film reels, which ties into the possibility both nights happened separately and Llewyn is just caught in a circle
However I feel it's still pretty irrational to think that the morning of the Gaslight isn't a repeat but the night is. As mentioned his little hallway hello? peek-a-boo is 99% the same scene, in addition to writing the note (which I made a mistake before: It never shows at all what he writes the 2nd time). I feel like if the Coens wanted to make it clearly a week later than the first time, they wouldn't have made the morning repeat that hard. If Llewyn had walked into the hallway without a hello or had written the note in his underwear it'd have signified a difference. Making it seem like the morning is a repeat when it isn't, is pretty unnecessary. It also just fits the purgatory metaphor to believe they made Llewyn repeat an entire day, instead of cutting a line somewhere in the afternoon where the film starts repeating itself
Also the whole business of the note gets messy if you believe there's two. Basically Llewyn's apology in the first one would have to be for an incident we never saw, despite the film in a Chekov's gun way, making it really seem like it reveals to us "this is what he apologizes for" later in the film when he gets drunk on the Gorfein's floor. Before he writes another note the next day that really looks like the same as the first one. At the beginning of the film he'd have apologized for one incident in the note and for a separate night to the Gaslight owner.
It simply makes the most sense to say we see Llewyn having the entirety of the 24th/Gaslight day twice - Llewyn wakes up, writes a note for being drunk the night before, apologizes to the Gaslight owner, plays and gets beat up. I don't see why people would be adverse to the concept that the film first flashes back from the night of the Gaslight to the morning, then from the morning to a week before. After all, the film goes from showing us "Llewyn was drunk last night" via the Gaslight owner apology and getting beat up, to him then writing a note to the Gorfeins for his condition night before - which is a clear indication we just jumped from night to morning of the same day
_________________Shack’s top 50 tv shows - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=90227
Last edited by Shack on Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:38 pm |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
You're unique.
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:41 pm |
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Renton
Iron Man
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:15 pm Posts: 622
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
I think the chronology is intentionally slightly ambiguous to suggest the eternal recurrence that Llewyn is stuck in. About the two morning scenes at the Gorfeins, I think the fact that in one of them the cat escapes, and in the other Llewyn prevents the cat from escaping suggests that these are in fact two different occasions, where the similarities serve to amplify the aforementioned eternal recurrence, the kind of Möbius strip that Llewyn's life has become.
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Last edited by Renton on Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:55 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
Shack, you're like that colleague of mine who thinks that Joseph Gordon Levitt's character in Looper is actually the same as the little boy/The Rainmaker/Emily Blunt's son.
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:59 pm |
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trixster
loyalfromlondon
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:31 pm Posts: 19697 Location: ville-marie
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
or those monsters who believe that mikey is the gorfeins' son
_________________Magic Mike wrote: zwackerm wrote: If John Wick 2 even makes 30 million I will eat 1,000 shoes. Same. Algren wrote: I don't think. I predict. 
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:03 pm |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 40584
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
Dr. Lecter wrote: Shack, you're like that colleague of mine who thinks that Joseph Gordon Levitt's character in Looper is actually the same as the little boy/The Rainmaker/Emily Blunt's son. No, because there is no evidence for that Llewyn apologizes to the Gorfeins for his condition the night before in a note, right after we see how the night before the Gaslight performance he was drunk. That is a clear indication he's writing the note the morning of the Gaslight performance. That's before considering he peeks into the hallway and says hello the exact same way and writes a note in his brown coat both mornings So while people can believe what they want, if you guys don't see why there's evidence supporting the "note writing scene" as happening the morning of the Gaslight and later getting repeated at the end of the week as an extension of the Gaslight night repeating, at least for it to be a feasible explanation, I'm sorry but you aren't being logical. The case can be made the entire day is a non-repeat easier than just the night repeats but the day doesn't. By the day starting so similarly IMO it's intended to be an extension of his night also repeating, whether flashback or a separate day
_________________Shack’s top 50 tv shows - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=90227
Last edited by Shack on Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:07 pm |
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David
Pure Phase
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:33 am Posts: 34865 Location: Maryland
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
One Shack style theory I always found neat: the idea Woody Allen's character in Anything Else is not a real flesh-and-blood person, but a type of Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come version of Jason Biggs' character sent to right his life at a time of creative and romantic crisis.
_________________   1. The Lost City of Z - 2. A Cure for Wellness - 3. Phantom Thread - 4. T2 Trainspotting - 5. Detroit - 6. Good Time - 7. The Beguiled - 8. The Florida Project - 9. Logan and 10. Molly's Game
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:09 pm |
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Mister Ecks
New Server, Same X
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:07 pm Posts: 28301 Location: ... siiiigh...
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
Thanks Shack, now I hate Inside Llewyn Davis.
_________________ Ecks Factor: Cancelled too soon
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:23 pm |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
Quote: This theory that the cat is an extension of Llewyn also helps put the ending of the movie in context. When Llewyn leaves the Gorfeins’ for the “second” time in the final scenes of the film, he keeps the cat inside. This comes after he’s finally learned its name: Ulysses. By doing so, I think the uncontrollable, unpredictable Llewyn also comes to terms with a part of himself. He has been awoken from the dream that he’s an undiscovered genius, and from the erroneous notion that talent exists in a vacuum—that any of his poor decisions and arrogant assholery wouldn’t somehow limit his success.
He still has to pay the price for his behavior (most notably in the form of a back alley beating), and he still has a long journey ahead. But Llewyn has reconciled with the cat—learning a name that, like Llewyn says of a beloved folk ballad, "was never new and won’t get old." And that makes all the difference.
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen ... ry/282583/
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:31 pm |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 40584
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
David wrote: One Shack style theory I always found neat: the idea Woody Allen's character in Anything Else is not a real flesh-and-blood person, but a type of Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come version of Jason Biggs' character sent to right his life at a time of creative and romantic crisis. I haven't seen AE but speaking of Allen, me and some reviewer at IMDB are seemingly the only ones who got that To Rome With Love is a supernatural concept film like Midnight In Paris (Rome's magical powers made everyone's fantasies come true), I am still surprised at how little this has been recognized since it is completely obvious once you realize it Also, have you guys seen the Brick is a time traveller Anchorman theory? http://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/com ... confidence http://whatculture.com/film/7-pieces-ev ... veller.php
_________________Shack’s top 50 tv shows - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=90227
Last edited by Shack on Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:43 pm |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
omg
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:44 pm |
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Mister Ecks
New Server, Same X
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:07 pm Posts: 28301 Location: ... siiiigh...
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
Did you guys know that in The Dark Knight, The Joker doesn't even exist in the movie and is merely a demon haunting Bruce Wayne and Harvey Dent, and that Heath Ledger isn't actually dead but was actually consumed by the real demon upon which The Joker is based and is now himself a demon haunting a home in Connecticut?
Surprised it's not more well-known.
_________________ Ecks Factor: Cancelled too soon
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:34 pm |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
Speaking of The Dark Knight, it was on TV the other day (duh) and they said that when he blows up the hospital, and there's a delay in the explosions, Ledger IMPROVISED that scene. Which is fantastic.
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:02 am |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
Well did you know that Pandas make great sushi?
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:09 am |
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Riggs
We had our time together
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:36 am Posts: 13299 Location: Vienna
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
Mister Ecks wrote: Did you guys know that in The Dark Knight, The Joker doesn't even exist in the movie and is merely a demon haunting Bruce Wayne and Harvey Dent, and that Heath Ledger isn't actually dead but was actually consumed by the real demon upon which The Joker is based and is now himself a demon haunting a home in Connecticut?
Surprised it's not more well-known.  This thread is gold.
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Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:21 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
Mister Ecks wrote: Did you guys know that in The Dark Knight, The Joker doesn't even exist in the movie and is merely a demon haunting Bruce Wayne and Harvey Dent, and that Heath Ledger isn't actually dead but was actually consumed by the real demon upon which The Joker is based and is now himself a demon haunting a home in Connecticut?
Surprised it's not more well-known. I laughed so hard. So hard. 
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:39 pm |
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kypade
Kypade
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 7908
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
I like this movie. I just reread the last few pages and I'm still not really sure what Shack is arguing happens, but this movie is very good and cool and I have a positive opinion of it.
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Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:57 pm |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 40584
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
kypade wrote: I like this movie. I just reread the last few pages and I'm still not really sure what Shack is arguing happens, but this movie is very good and cool and I have a positive opinion of it. That he writes the note at the beginning, the morning of the Gaslight performance (the film eventually shows what he's apologizing for when it gets to the end of the week) Still don't know how people can't see this
_________________Shack’s top 50 tv shows - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=90227
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:24 am |
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David
Pure Phase
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:33 am Posts: 34865 Location: Maryland
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
Because you are on class-A drugs and over-complicating it.
_________________   1. The Lost City of Z - 2. A Cure for Wellness - 3. Phantom Thread - 4. T2 Trainspotting - 5. Detroit - 6. Good Time - 7. The Beguiled - 8. The Florida Project - 9. Logan and 10. Molly's Game
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:35 am |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 40584
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
Ok I hate to keep this going but I simply can't believe this isn't getting through
At the end of the film the Coens show us the Gaslighr events that play out the same but not identical. At the end of the film they also show us the morning before his Gaslight performance, which plays no less 'the same but not identical' (the cat wakes him up, he peekaboos the hallway while the cat runs ahead of him, he writes note). In addition every other example of the "repeat day" trope in film or tv has begun with a repeat morning scene. And you're telling me it's crazy to think the morning's near identical scenes are as much a repeat of the night's that same day?
For the record, based on the non identical repeat scenes, I think best interpretation is that he's in a literal metaphysical time loop. But the most obvious interpretation is the entire day, morning and night, is made to feel like a repeat whether it happened or not
_________________Shack’s top 50 tv shows - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=90227
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:32 pm |
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trixster
loyalfromlondon
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:31 pm Posts: 19697 Location: ville-marie
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
shut the fuck up already
_________________Magic Mike wrote: zwackerm wrote: If John Wick 2 even makes 30 million I will eat 1,000 shoes. Same. Algren wrote: I don't think. I predict. 
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:41 pm |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 40584
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 Re: Inside Llewyn Davis
trixster wrote: shut the fuck up already How u?
_________________Shack’s top 50 tv shows - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=90227
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:37 pm |
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