I think when she gets back she's gonna kick our heads in.

I just had to look that up on Wikipedia...

But yeah, anything other than The Fishes.

The only thing I want to convince Dolce about is that we all have different reasons for liking or hating it, but for her not to jump to conclusions about our motivations for liking or seeing what we do in a film, and to accept that, because she has not seen it, her interpretation doesn't have any foundation.

If she hates it, she's free to, even if she doesn't like the "IF" I talked about.

hehe got it at the Wiki as well, during one of my press random article spree's.

Children of Men thread was so 2006.

THE FUTURE IS HERE NOW

Nah, I think South Dakota is ok, only that it had to be put down (literally) in blunt language before everyone realized they were supporting something they never wanted. That's all I meant. That until something is so blunt as to be a direct interjection of civil liberties, people don't often realize what is being suggested. Anyways, thanks for the bitch comment, that was, um, pleasant, even if it was true.

And yeah, I am a bitch, I never claimed otherwise.

Anyways, Loyal is right, take it to the Children of Men thread. That article mentions it in like, two lines, and seems to be the only thing people noticed. I didn't see it, that's why I didn't pretend and include it on any of my lists. Same goes with Apocalypto, which maybe if I'd mentioned would have lessened the suggestion that I only have it out against one movie this year.

In addition, no one has to really worry about me ruffling feathers anymore. It was a wrap-up I submitted only because 3/4 of this year I still did reviews for the site. Now that I'm done, Katie and Zingaling can enjoy being called bitches and bastards with even less detraction.

Don't worry, you can still poke fun at me, then. This is, afterall, a site dedicated to entertianment, and there's nothing as entertaining as poking fun at individuals.

Cheers, and good post from the previous page.

On the Beach was such an awesome book.

Good job. You were certainly successful...

And since we're on the topic of how I dismissed everyone by calling them hicks, you did a damn fine job dismissing me when I was referring to this.

Natalism is the source of all human evil in history. Anyone disagree?

Alright, I get it. Please stick to calling me closed-minded rather than making a complete farce out of world-wide reproductive and female health rights history. I'd really prefer it. You know, you can even call me a bitch if you like, but since that one has been taking I'm sure there'a whole list of other colourful adjectives you could brainstorm. And yeah, I do think natalism is a movement that has had broad repercussions for human rights historically. But since I know the above quote was meant more at me than the entire history of sex roles and civil liberties, I'm going to help you come up with a list of things you could call me instead.

I already said several posts back that I understood people would read this movie in different ways, and depending on which ways one read it they would like it or not. I read they critics. They all liked it. They all liked it because it commented on war and dystopia. I would read it according to something else, and because I wouldn't be able to shake that reading, I probably wouldn't like it. At no point did I challenge that the movie couldn't be read in light of jaded societies and violence, only that critics seemed to only read it in that one way, without addressing other readings, which I thought was worrisome. I was fine with people disagreeing that I would opt for this reading and hesitate to give it money because of that.

But now you're getting ridiculous.

Everyone go to the Children of Men thread now and leave me the fuck out of crap like the above one liner and the bitch jokes.

And yeah, Snrub, if anyone here has slightly convinced me to give it a try (albeight not paying for it) its probably you.

Worth adding that I fully expected to hate it. I only went to see it because I was bored and I have a cinema round the corner, but it was one of the best impulse sees in a long time. Even better than Hoodwinked.

Yeah, these last couple pages should be put in the Children of Men thread for sure.

Don't try to backtrack. You know what you meant and you were clear. Of course you were referring to their wacky abortion laws, but your statement was that we should move to participate in that system. That is far, far, far more offensive than calling you a bitch.

Do you think the problem is that the film might not speak to that issue? What we've been saying this afternoon is the film is not about the subject of abortion. Abortion is an issue which is (theoretically) "resolved" through lack of fetus at least 17 years prior to the beginning of the film. Not every film about birth or babies has to be a meditation on abortion! Especially from a director who is from Mexico who's making a film written and set in the UK which may not have any clue what South Dakota did last year... or care?

You want to read into this all you want. Fine. At least do it after you've seen the film. Do not attempt to speak from authority about a movie you have not seen based on people's reviews.

Dolce ...

The last few one-liners could have been left out, I agree.

My only concern is that you don't judge a movie before you see it. You are a librarian, I'm sure you'd never advocate judging a book by its cover, so I really think you shouldn't pre-judge this film before you've seen it. Sure, not everyone will jump on the bandwagon, but before you declare it as presenting one point of view, you should at least see it, even if you don't like it. I think your argument would get a lot more respect on here if you were talking from a perspective of knowledge, which I don't think you really have of the film (or even the source book). That's all.

I'm sorry to say this dolce but your stance on this reminds me of sections of the british press who refused to even watch Wind the shakes the barley and just decided to call it an anti-british tirade without even watching it. But fuck it, its only a bit of fun dolce I actually enjoyed this debate had a bit of life to it.

For what it's worth Dolce, you angered me for some of the things you've said... not that you have issues with the movie, but some of the accusations here against the rest of the people. But I did use the particular word for that reason and actually I kind of expect to be considered for banning because of it, but I thought it was important.

If we never talk again because of this, know that I don't judge you against this one issue. It will be unfortunate but, oh well. An apology would be a bit hollow at the moment. But I do extend a virtual olive branch so to speak.

Calm down.

Indeed. I've recieved far worse hammerings from Jayhawk over at BOF. Lets all chill and have some wine.

On the Beach is great. I, too, was reminded of it. (The movie[s] that is. I've never read the book).

both the book and the 2000 movie version made me blub like a baby.

Go see the old one. It's from '59 and it's pretty damn great. Though I did get a bit sad at the end of the TV version, too.... watching the family sit down, take in the scenery... and die.

Dolce makes me want to rip my hair out sometimes. :-(

Dolce, I love you. But I think there's something wrong with your stance on Children of Men. It's kind of a Catch-22...I think (or I'd like to think) that if you saw the film, you would realize it was silly to right it off for the pro-life (or 'natalism,' whichever) agenda because it's just not there. But you seem to have made up your mind not to see it.

I understand what you felt and meant (initially - I will leave out anything that's happened since). You thought (think?) that the premise is one you don't want to support. Cool - I've always kinda dug yr boycotting of films made by people and about things you dislike. Humans can't reproduce and the only hope in the world is one female's womb. Reading that sentence, I understand why you (or someone of similar intelligence) might be turned off. "Wouldn't be able to shake that reading." Ok.

But, having seen the film, I really hope you'll take my word in saying that that is not the case. There's no question of abortion or natalism or whatever it is your worried about, because that's not what the movie's about. But it's also not about "War is hell." It's about a women who is lost turning for help to a man who is equally lost. There's a sequence towards the end where the films tone shifts from Saving Private Ryan to Christmastime Mass at Our Lady Lourdes that, to me, sums up the film. It's about finding strength in another. It's about being a father. It's about being a mother. It's about the absolute beauty and power of childbirth. It's about appreciating life in the face of turbulence and chaos.

Yeah, there's stuff that isn't clear, answers that the audience isn't told. But who cares? We aren't watching the whole of 2027 Britain life. We're zoned in on a man and a woman and the people around them. None of the other stuff matters. Watch Owen's character interact with Caine's and tell me there's something wrong with the film's message. Watch the scene at the end with Theo giving Kee advice on the boat and try to think of any right-wing propaganda. There's so so much in this film to love that I hope you don't miss it because of a broad plot that worries you. I guess I just think that by understanding so little of what the film really is, you're doing the film, all of its fans, and certainly yourself, a great disservice.

I'll download the movie and christen my new dvd burner to send you a copy if you'd like. You may end up hating it; maybe I missed your point entirely and your "reading" of the film's message would indeed overpower everything else. Maybe you'll have other issues. I dunno. I just haven't been really blown away in theaters in a long time and can't imagine someone with such good taste skipping Children of Men.

I was hyped beyond belief for the film and the ending still completely blew me away. So amazing.

One thing I'm confused about...Dolce are you no longer writing for the site?

I've all but stopped as well at this point. Are we down to just one active reviewer?