It's funny that Hoffman was in Forensics in Saw III, yet he's suddenly a Detective in Saw IV.

That's insanely clever. Just like the fact that he's Jigsaw's successor. And just like the fact that Marky Mark's brother (or any other generic character that appeared in the first 4 movies) will be the one who "tests" him in Saw 5, after they pull a cassette tape out of his ass.

I didnt mean tell me. Ass

Seems like you were the wrong guy in the wrong place. Not that it matters anyway. Not for this particular character/scene and not for the plot in its entirety.

I think pretentious gives the makers of the film far to much credit, its just a dumb ridiculous mess.

We live in the CSI world were as the Forensics guy you get to go make arrests and be a detective.

It certainly is, however, it's supposed to come across as somewhat clever, complex and even deep. And, unfortunately, many fall for it, including some people in this forum.

Fitting you would say that...

I don't think it's 'clever, complex and even deep,' I just appreciate the fact that it adds a much greater sense of continuity in the series than you get in just about every other horror franchise.

Consider yourself lucky. That's what it pretends to be and I've seen quite a few people actually believing it. I recently saw some guy on another forum trying to defend the Saw franchise with arguments in the vain of "the complexity of its plot and its themes go over your head" and "the twists are as breathtaking as it gets and the among the best in the history of cinema".
He made it look like he was defending Tarkovsky, which was completely absurd and made it sad to witness.



If you're that modest, good for you. Taking some actor who played some minor, generic role in one of the previous movies and placing him in the current part of the series, just to kill him off right away or suddenly make him the new villain, isn't exactly the most brilliant way of adding continuity to a franchise and reminds me more of those soap operas that go on for decades and are written on the fly.

The only one that could compete would be Halloween's, I'd argue.

I don't believe Saw is considerably deep, but I do think it has more going on upstairs than most horror films -- especially III, which is one of the reasons I genuinely love it. I could care less about the traps or gore, I like the fact it psychologically breaks Amanda down. It has a great focal point in that regard, and the ending was incredibly tense... at least to me.

Saw isn't high art, it's fast food horror. But it's not quite as brain dead as you paint it to be.



Hoffman's role was hinted at in Saw III, though -- and it wasn't exactly subtle. "How the hell could Jigsaw do all this?" "I'm not so sure he did." Cut to Hoffman (repeat on every mention of someone other than Jigsaw).

Exactly. Not even slightly.



Maybe if you compare it to Freddy vs. Jason. Other than that: That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's just mind-boggling how people fall for that blatantly pretentious bullshit.



To be honest, I cringed my way through that movie. It's beyond me how anyone could find that mess, which went from ridiculously amusing to annoyingly bad, anywhere near worthwhile. Jeff's horribly silly inner conflicts being rubbed into my face 20 times in the most absurd way imaginable was about as worthwhile as reading "Mein Kampf" 10 times in a row.



That's what I would reduce the movies to. Amateurishly filmed gore scenes to please the bloodthirsty masses. That's all the franchise has to offer. The moronic plot, twists, psychological issues and whatnot are completely useless and just accessories that are totally blown out of proportion, in order to make the movies seem somewhat intelligent or even important.



That aspect displays exactly what I'm trying to say.. 5th rate psychological drama elements stuffed into a 6th rate torture porn, yet people buy into it and regard it as something momentous and successful in what it's trying to achieve.



I (surprisingly) hated it. After roughly 90 minutes of ludicrously grotesque stupidity and gore, the writers/directors/producers suddenly present an oh so clever and intense sequence to the audience - 15 twists per minute, each of them laughable at best, accompanied by an extra-loud edition of the musical theme, 12 "revealing" flashbacks and Jigsaw staring into the camera with a meaningful expression. Wow, so intense, it just has to be great!



Right. But a combination of descriptions such as "fast food" on the one hand and "incredibly tense" and "great" on the other strikes me slightly awkward.



Naturally, I beg to differ.



Of course it wasn't subtle. I doubt anything in this franchise ever will be. That's a good example of how the writers are pretending to have a clever plot on their hands, with many people falling for it, while, infact, adding these preposterously obvious hints to the plot, which are about as subtle or clever as a ten ton hammer that hits the viewer's face. Of course, the revealing of Hoffman's role in Saw 4 is supposed to be another witty and ingenious plot element, an awe-inducing twist of events even. Stunning - the audience applauds.
And what was that about Marky Mark's brother? 6 months of imprisonment, just to be killed off right away. Very smart, what a genious move, a direct connection between Saw II and this newest installment. Of course, his survival was hinted at in Saw 3. Perfect. I just hope to see some other random characters re-appearing for 2 minutes in Saw 6. It will be so damn intelligent and awesome.

Bloody Heck I'm agreeing with Guybrush here................................must.............mark.........wall!!

You already agreed with what I said in that thread about conservative 8 year olds becoming more liberal on their 12th birthday. Maybe you're finally awakening from your tragic slumber. We'll see.

Lets drink to this

Vodka I'll presume.

I'll get some from Artur. He exudes it.

I thought it was pretty dull and also quite confusing. I still don't know who the guy behind it was. He didn't look at all like anyone I've ever seen before. Then again, I haven't seen Saw II since it came out on DVD and the same with Saw III. But it was dull and I didn't care about any of the characters. It could have been a lot better.

5/10 ( C )

Will you see Saw V? I was disappointed with this film too yet I will definitely see the next one in the hope that it improves and is more like the first three.

Wow, another insightful comment from you, don't you have some girls to stalk or something?

I've never done that

That you would even say it is not to mention insensitive and downright cruel

It was pretty good, if disappointing compared to the very good previous three films. The best sequences in the movie were the flashbacks of Jigsaw and Tobin Bell once again stole the show. A few of the traps were cool though. There was one moment where a particular character (who I rather liked) died and I yelled out, "HOLY SHIT!" Rather shocking and unnecessary, in my opinion, because I wanted this character to live. Oh, well. B-

I think Joe hunts down Ripper just to be an asshole.