Author |
Message |
Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
yoshue wrote: I love the need to artificially label, and thus marginalize, that which we cannot (or don't want to) understand. I honestly wish I didn't understand it... 
|
Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:54 am |
|
 |
Johnny Dollar
The Lubitsch Touch
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 pm Posts: 11019
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
yoshue wrote: I love the need to artificially label, and thus marginalize, that which we cannot (or don't want to) understand. bradley crazyberry wrote: I honestly wish I didn't understand it... Exactly. Thank you. And Libs, arthouse, in that sense, is of course a legitimate categorization.
_________________ k
|
Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:58 am |
|
 |
Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11620 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
Yeah, it is more intellectual than arty. An arthouse film would be either more expressionalistic or had a more dip of realism. This film instead actual more connects with a figurative story as it an allusion to the grim reaper himself, and an obvious allusion at that. As for the film, yes it was brilliant and filled with great refrences to death himself, but it had one major fault that does slightly hurt the film and the overall theme that both the novel and the Coen Bros were developing in their allusions to the grim reaper through Anton, and that was: I realize they were trying to display the abartrary part of death and it as fate, but he needed to die at the hands of Anton not the Mexicans to make a more well concieved theme of the lurking death. As for the end, as a writer it was perfect, but as a film making the last two scenes needed to be flipped for a more satsfying experience. Sometimes the Coen Bros forgot they were making a film instead of a novel. Besides those faults, this was beyond a perfect film. A
_________________
|
Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:02 am |
|
 |
Johnny Dollar
The Lubitsch Touch
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 pm Posts: 11019
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
Darth Indiana Bond wrote: I realize they were trying to display the abartrary part of death and it as fate, but he needed to die at the hands of Anton not the Mexicans to make a more well concieved theme of the lurking death. Think of it in conjunction with Chigurh's last scene. We're expecting one thing, or nothing, and something hits us out of nowhere. Death and pain and tragedy is indeed lurking from every corner, and we can't escape.
_________________ k
|
Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:08 am |
|
 |
Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
yoshue wrote: Darth Indiana Bond wrote: I realize they were trying to display the abartrary part of death and it as fate, but he needed to die at the hands of Anton not the Mexicans to make a more well concieved theme of the lurking death. Think of it in conjunction with Chigurh's last scene. We're expecting one thing, or nothing, and something hits us out of nowhere. Death and pain and tragedy is indeed lurking from every corner, and we can't escape. ...and fortunately that kinda randomness sure saves on all that creative dramatic writin' foolishness - - one day, all movies are gonna end this way - - it's like Hot Rod's anti-humor - - NCFOM is pioneering in anti-drama...
|
Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:30 am |
|
 |
Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11620 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
But that breaks the whole grim reaper theme slightly. I just disagree with it, but understand it.
_________________
|
Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:30 am |
|
 |
Johnny Dollar
The Lubitsch Touch
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 pm Posts: 11019
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
Yeah, bradley, it's just lazy writing, and not, you know, indicative of a larger worldview or anything.
I'll try to get Cormac McCarthy's contact info for you. Maybe you can teach him a thing or two about dramatic structure and such.
_________________ k
|
Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:38 am |
|
 |
Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
yoshue wrote: I'll try to get Cormac McCarthy's contact info for you. Maybe you can teach him a thing or two about dramatic structure and such. Awaiting your PM. Thanx in advance! 
|
Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:44 am |
|
 |
android
Cream of the Crop
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:44 am Posts: 2913 Location: Portugal
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
I didn't understand everything that was said (those damn accents - I really need to watch this again with proper subtitles), but I really really liked it. The motel scenes in particular are some of the most suspenseful I've ever witnessed. And Javier Bardem makes up the most terrifying villain in ages. Deserves the Oscar he's gonna get.
_________________
|
Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:18 pm |
|
 |
Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11620 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
Is Anton truly a villain or just a part of life?
_________________
|
Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:24 pm |
|
 |
billybobwashere
He didn't look busy?!
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:59 pm Posts: 4308
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
He's a villain, and anyone who says otherwise is too damn metaphorical with interpretation of films...if he wasn't a villain, he wouldn't have had such an intense-awesome voice or used such a freakin' sick weapon. Even if he represents something more, he IS a villain in this movie.
_________________ Retroviral VideosA film-based project created for the purpose of helping raise awareness about HIV/AIDS, specifically in South Africa.
|
Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:21 am |
|
 |
Webslinger
why so serious?
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:24 pm Posts: 4110 Location: Stuck In A Moment I Can't Get Out Of
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
Well, on top of that, there's the car crash near the end. Not only does it show him being fully human, but it also shows that in spite of his totally badass persona, he can be "gentle" if it's absolutely necessary. I mean, he killed other people who were probably even more innocent and less deserving of death than the kids on the bikes who he paid. I didn't really like the scene as a whole, but I did like that it attempted to make him look human. I think the scene would have worked better if he died. There would have been some very nice irony in seeing the badass, vicious murderer dying in an automobile accident.
_________________ This Post Has Brought to You by Your Friendly Neighborhood Webslinger.
|
Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:04 pm |
|
 |
billybobwashere
He didn't look busy?!
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:59 pm Posts: 4308
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
but if he died, the point of the movie would be shot down.
_________________ Retroviral VideosA film-based project created for the purpose of helping raise awareness about HIV/AIDS, specifically in South Africa.
|
Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:41 pm |
|
 |
Webslinger
why so serious?
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:24 pm Posts: 4110 Location: Stuck In A Moment I Can't Get Out Of
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
Not really, if you interpret it a different way: There are no clean getaways. That's the point I thought the movie had been communicating the whole way through. Even the best laid plans get totally fucked up in the end. Thus, Anton getting knocked off at the moment he least expected would have been a good move, I think.
_________________ This Post Has Brought to You by Your Friendly Neighborhood Webslinger.
|
Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:51 pm |
|
 |
Dkmuto
Forum General
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:00 am Posts: 6502
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
I don't think it's a perfect film, but it's the only 2007 release that has kept me thinking long after having viewed it.
A-
|
Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:29 pm |
|
 |
Webslinger
why so serious?
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:24 pm Posts: 4110 Location: Stuck In A Moment I Can't Get Out Of
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
Well, after much thought, I went back and saw this again today, and all I really have to say is... WOW, am I glad I did. Perhaps it was that I knew what I was looking for/what to expect this time around, but the film blew me away. Apart from a couple nitpicky details I still have with how the ending was handled (in spoiler tag below), I loved it. I don't know what it was I missed the first time, but this time around, I found it to be a monumental achievement of a film. I was considerably more satisfied with the film. My revised grade is a well-earned A. In addition, I've really got to hand it to the Coen Brothers for making a film that provoked so much thought in my mind for me to go back after initial disappointment. Really, really great stuff. I still have just some nitpicky gripes about the ending. I don't think Bell's "dream" scene was the right one to end on. Two of the three final scenes belong to Bell, and they pretty much communicate the same message. I think one of them should have been done away with, and neither one should have finished the film. Second, I think it may have been a better move to kill Chigurh at the end in the car crash. There are so many more similarities between Chigurh and Moss than I think a lot of people realize. In all honesty, neither man has a noble cause in pursuing the money, they're both willing to kill for it, and they're more than willing to put the lives of other in jeopardy to get to the money. Thus, I think it would have been a great parallel to have Chigurh die in the crash. Here's why: Moss has all he needs when he gets away with the money, but he decides to go back and give the man in the truck some water, as he asked for earlier. This gets the ball in motion as far as having to go on the run is concerned. It ultimately results in a death he doesn't see coming. It's not Chigurh who kills him. Instead, it's the Mexicans who were (presumably) on the other end of the drug deal gone wrong. In the conclusion, Chigurh goes back after having the money to kill Carla Jean simply because he said he would. Like Moss bringing the water to the man in the truck, he really doesn't have much reason to do it, but he does anyway. And then what happens? He dies in a way he doesn't see coming: Not by being shot down in a showdown, but in a car crash. But then again, this really is just a nitpicky detail. The scene still works, but I think it could have worked a bit better if that change had been made. Either way, I feel it would have been a better scene to end on than Bell's talk about his dreams. I'll have more comments later.
_________________ This Post Has Brought to You by Your Friendly Neighborhood Webslinger.
|
Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:22 pm |
|
 |
Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11620 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
I agree with Webby that scene would have worked better as the ending, but not n the way he describes it. The parallel doesn't work as giving the water to the Mexican didn't cause the chase because he already had a tracker in the sachel, all it did was give knowledge to Moss that he was being chased, if he hadn't have given the water he would have died much sooner for he wouldn't have known about being chased so quickly.
Also Anton can't die, he is the grim reaper, a "ghost", death itself, and therefore kind of immortal, a being beyond the rest.
_________________
|
Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:06 pm |
|
 |
Webslinger
why so serious?
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:24 pm Posts: 4110 Location: Stuck In A Moment I Can't Get Out Of
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
But you see... I don't buy the idea of Antom being anything but a villain. While it's true that he does kill most of the people he comes in contact with, he spares a few others. Seeing as he clearly bleeds and has to fix wounds of his, I don't think that he's anything close to immortal. He's just a badass walking around doing what he does best. Like everyone else in the movie, he has an agenda: Get the satchel, and if you get in his way or he makes a promise to kill you (like Carla Jean), you're dead.
_________________ This Post Has Brought to You by Your Friendly Neighborhood Webslinger.
|
Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:42 pm |
|
 |
Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11620 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
However.... Cleaning his wounds simply shows how he can cover anything up and that he is beyond human. Yes he doesn't kill everyone, but that is because it isn't there time. If he was a villain, he would have simply killed Bell at the motel in El Paso, but he didn't, it wasn't Bell's time yet. On more frank terms, yes he is clearly the villain, and yes even on metaphorical terms he is the antagonist, but on those metaphorical terms, death isn't always a villain as much as it is simply an obsticle
_________________
|
Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:52 pm |
|
 |
choubachou
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 1796
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
I don't understand the love for this movie. Is the love mainly due to the suspense and the fact that Bardem is "terrifying"? Go watch Halloween or something..
_________________ Best of 2014: 1- Apes 9.5/10 2- Noah 9.0/10 3- Lone Survivor 8.5/10 4- Captain America 8.0/10 5- 300: 8.0/10
|
Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:51 pm |
|
 |
Thegun
On autopilot for the summer
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:14 pm Posts: 21896 Location: Walking around somewhere
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
choubachou wrote: I don't understand the love for this movie. Is the love mainly due to the suspense and the fact that Bardem is "terrifying"? Go watch Halloween or something.. there was nothing Terrifying or suspenseful about the new Halloween
_________________ Chippy wrote: As always, fuck Thegun. Chippy wrote: I want to live vicariously through you, Thegun!
|
Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:16 pm |
|
 |
Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11620 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
The love is in that rarely we get a film so mainstream that has the metaphorical level of a novel that was also well put together and well acted.
_________________
|
Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:20 pm |
|
 |
MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 23385 Location: Melbourne Australia
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
yoshue wrote: You know, the people who want to see Brolin die on screen are wrong, but I understand the urge to see it.
But as far as being upset that we didn't see Carla Jean get hers...why the hell would we need to see that? It's so much more powerful not knowing exactly how the deed went down. Did she fight? Did she cry? Where'd she get it? Did she allow him to flip? Did he do it for her?
Ambiguity is not a bad thing, people! Not at all! I agree. Im glad we didnt see the killings - especially that of Carla Jean. All we needed to know was that she wouldnt call the toss - indicating that she would not live - nor did she really care (considering both her husband and mother just died). Seeing him silently walk out of the house and check his shoes for blood was more powerful than any Carla Jean killing scene. I have no issue with the ending. I can understand why some didnt like it but to me, it was the logical conclusion. Grade: A
_________________
What's your favourite movie summer? Let us know @
http://worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85934
|
Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:13 pm |
|
 |
Webslinger
why so serious?
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:24 pm Posts: 4110 Location: Stuck In A Moment I Can't Get Out Of
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
After seeing it a second time, I think it was a good move not to show Carla Jean's death. I think it just would have helped a bit for the more mainstream (i.e. not as into movies as this crowd is) audiences to get that he does indeed kill her (because I don't think it's quite enough for common people to believe that he kills her because he checks his shoes for blood- which in itself is something they won't pick up on unless they remember Carson's murder.) However, I think that Llewelyn's death could have been shown. Unless I'm mistaken, they would have had enough time to show that AND Bell arriving on the scene, though it may have rquired another scene at the hotel so that it doesn't seem like it goes "Moss gets to the hotel/Moss talks with woman at the pool/Mexicans kill Moss."
This is a movie that I think gets even better the more you think about it- not to mention in repeat viewings. For that reason, I think it's probably safe to say that this will probably be the most highly regarded film of the Coen Brothers' careers. I'm not sure whether I like it better than Fargo, but I am very interested in going to see it a third time.
And the ending... The problem I think there is comes in what you're expecting. The first time I saw it, I was expecting a more clear-cut ending, and I wasn't counting on the story to shift to Bell. I wasn't interested in his character. I was interested in the showdown I expected Moss and Chigurh would have. But on my second viewing, it really clicked with me because it all seemed so crystal-clear why the movie was arriving at that point.
_________________ This Post Has Brought to You by Your Friendly Neighborhood Webslinger.
|
Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:53 pm |
|
 |
MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 23385 Location: Melbourne Australia
|
 Re: No Country for Old Men
Webslinger wrote: After seeing it a second time, I think it was a good move not to show Carla Jean's death. I think it just would have helped a bit for the more mainstream (i.e. not as into movies as this crowd is) audiences to get that he does indeed kill her (because I don't think it's quite enough for common people to believe that he kills her because he checks his shoes for blood- which in itself is something they won't pick up on unless they remember Carson's murder.) However, I think that Llewelyn's death could have been shown. Unless I'm mistaken, they would have had enough time to show that AND Bell arriving on the scene, though it may have rquired another scene at the hotel so that it doesn't seem like it goes "Moss gets to the hotel/Moss talks with woman at the pool/Mexicans kill Moss."
This is a movie that I think gets even better the more you think about it- not to mention in repeat viewings. For that reason, I think it's probably safe to say that this will probably be the most highly regarded film of the Coen Brothers' careers. I'm not sure whether I like it better than Fargo, but I am very interested in going to see it a third time.
And the ending... The problem I think there is comes in what you're expecting. The first time I saw it, I was expecting a more clear-cut ending, and I wasn't counting on the story to shift to Bell. I wasn't interested in his character. I was interested in the showdown I expected Moss and Chigurh would have. But on my second viewing, it really clicked with me because it all seemed so crystal-clear why the movie was arriving at that point. I agree that showing Lewellyn's murder may have helped a little - especially with expectations of a Lew/Chigurh showdown (even though it was the Mexicans). Perhaps they did film it but opted not to show it. I have to admit - i knew it would end abruptly before seeing it so i was bracing myself.
_________________
What's your favourite movie summer? Let us know @
http://worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85934
|
Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:12 pm |
|
|
Who is online |
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 57 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
|