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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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bradley witherberry wrote: Dr. Lecter wrote: The problem in V for Vendetta is that the movie takes itself way too seriously and that really hurts it. It wants to send out an IMPORTANT MESSAGE. Well, I'd suggest the makers to watch films like Lord of War and Munich for the 101 manual as to how send out a good message. The issues this movie tries to send a message about are way too complicated to make them as black & white as the movie does. I disagree with your contention that the movie is meant to be taken seriously - to me it was a work of high-romance swirling around a dystopian fantasy theme...
Which is why it draws every possible parallel to the current and past world events.
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:33 am |
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Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
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Dr. Lecter wrote: bradley witherberry wrote: Dr. Lecter wrote: The problem in V for Vendetta is that the movie takes itself way too seriously and that really hurts it. It wants to send out an IMPORTANT MESSAGE. Well, I'd suggest the makers to watch films like Lord of War and Munich for the 101 manual as to how send out a good message. The issues this movie tries to send a message about are way too complicated to make them as black & white as the movie does. I disagree with your contention that the movie is meant to be taken seriously - to me it was a work of high-romance swirling around a dystopian fantasy theme... Which is why it draws every possible parallel to the current and past world events.
That's all part of the fun!
I'm beginning to think that this difference in interpretation of the intentions of the filmmakers is at the root of the varying reactions to this movie. Those who got into the lush melodrama of the story seem to have enjoyed the film more than those who viewed it as a political statement.
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Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:59 am |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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bradley witherberry wrote: Dr. Lecter wrote: bradley witherberry wrote: Dr. Lecter wrote: The problem in V for Vendetta is that the movie takes itself way too seriously and that really hurts it. It wants to send out an IMPORTANT MESSAGE. Well, I'd suggest the makers to watch films like Lord of War and Munich for the 101 manual as to how send out a good message. The issues this movie tries to send a message about are way too complicated to make them as black & white as the movie does. I disagree with your contention that the movie is meant to be taken seriously - to me it was a work of high-romance swirling around a dystopian fantasy theme... Which is why it draws every possible parallel to the current and past world events. That's all part of the fun! I'm beginning to think that this difference in interpretation of the intentions of the filmmakers is at the root of the varying reactions to this movie. Those who got into the lush melodrama of the story seem to have enjoyed the film more than those who viewed it as a political statement.
From all those "thought-provoking!" comments I gathered in this thread, a lot of people actually did like it BECAUSE of the sledgehammer political statement.
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:00 am |
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andaroo1
Lord of filth
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:47 pm Posts: 9566
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bradley witherberry wrote: I'm beginning to think that this difference in interpretation of the intentions of the filmmakers is at the root of the varying reactions to this movie. Those who got into the lush melodrama of the story seem to have enjoyed the film more than those who viewed it as a political statement.
I think this is the problem. V for Vendetta tried to play it every way. They tried to play it as a political statement, but a confused one that was ultimately heavy handed. They tried to play the "lush melodrama" angle (especially IMO with the tests and V's origin) but it came across as a bit camp and silly, and finally they tried to play it off (or at least sell it) as an action/suspense movie and it doesn't have enough to support it.
If (in my view) they had chosen a specific path and moved along that path more tightly, the film might have arrived at something. It would have been either a) more complex (which definately would have helped it), b) more fun, or c) more intense.
Maybe it is a problem with the film's source material, but in my opinion it's not really an excuse.
Still, it's not horrible in my eyes, and is at least thought provoking, even if those thoughts more lead to the discussion of how I feel the film got it wrong rather than supporting the ideals that film seems to be pushing.
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Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:09 am |
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Goldie
Forum General
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:38 pm Posts: 7286 Location: TOP*SECRET ******************** ******************** ******************** ********************
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Personally, I thought it was a very simple personal story.
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* V and his revenge for the way that he and the jail girlfriend was treated. and then his feeling that this was the wrong way to live.
* Natalie and getting rid of her fear that she always have had since her parents were taken.
* The freedom of everyone else, that was a tag along story that didn't really come into the picture till the end scenes > and after V died. Except for some shots of people watching the tv that showed some outside people.
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Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:14 am |
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Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
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andaroo wrote: bradley witherberry wrote: I'm beginning to think that this difference in interpretation of the intentions of the filmmakers is at the root of the varying reactions to this movie. Those who got into the lush melodrama of the story seem to have enjoyed the film more than those who viewed it as a political statement. I think this is the problem. V for Vendetta tried to play it every way. They tried to play it as a political statement, but a confused one that was ultimately heavy handed. They tried to play the "lush melodrama" angle (especially IMO with the tests and V's origin) but it came across as a bit camp and silly, and finally they tried to play it off (or at least sell it) as an action/suspense movie and it doesn't have enough to support it. If (in my view) they had chosen a specific path and moved along that path more tightly, the film might have arrived at something. It would have been either a) more complex (which definately would have helped it), b) more fun, or c) more intense. Maybe it is a problem with the film's source material, but in my opinion it's not really an excuse. Still, it's not horrible in my eyes, and is at least thought provoking, even if those thoughts more lead to the discussion of how I feel the film got it wrong rather than supporting the ideals that film seems to be pushing.
As a person who enjoyed the melodramatic aspect of the movie (and the "camp" aspect, too!), I didn't find the politics to be a "problem" - they provided a setting or a background to the main story.
Though, I'm beginning to see that even I would rate this movie much lower, if I took it to be strictly a commentary on the current state of world politics or some sort of poli-sci lesson...
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Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:56 am |
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jb007
Veteran
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:47 pm Posts: 3917 Location: Las Vegas
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The movie is thought provoking and succeeds in exactly what it intended to do. Just because a few do not think so, doesn't mean it isn't so. A majority of the viewers and the critics seem to agree that is a well made, fascinating look at the future. A future that was created because PEOPLE were dumb enough to give up their liberties for the apperance of safety created by mass murderers.
The best part about V is that the hero is not so much trying to kill the bad people as he is trying to wake up the populace from their stupor. Further V is not a power hungry politician or a religious fanatic. His whole purpose in life is to bring the masses to their senses. Every great revolution in history probably had a person/persons like V educating and forcing the masses to act.
_________________ Dr. RajKumar 4/24/1929 - 4/12/2006 The Greatest Actor Ever. Thanks for The Best Cinematic Memories of My Life.
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Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:10 pm |
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Eagle
Site Owner
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm Posts: 14631 Location: Pittsburgh
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Not a huge fan of the Bush bashing, but can't discredit the movie ... it was top notch. Throughly enjoyed it.
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Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:19 pm |
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Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
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Dr. Lecter wrote: Well, she was very good in Leon - The Professional and Closer, but I start thinking that Keira Knightley is actually the better actress of the two.
Yeah, but can she do a British accent?

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Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:10 pm |
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DP07
The Thirteenth Floor
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:26 am Posts: 15493 Location: Everywhere
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Heavy-handed? At least it was straightforward about its biases unlike say Munich.
The movie is very well crafted. While they didn't try to make another Matrix, so the action isn't impressive, nearly everything is well done. The production values are incredible given the budget. I especially thought the score was effective.
8.0/10
Best of the year so far; best comic book movie ever IMO.
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Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:28 pm |
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rolandka19
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:33 am Posts: 1117 Location: Somewhere in the East Coast
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My review (as it appears in my high school newspaper):
***1/2 (out of four) or B+
V For Vendetta is an exciting, fascinating, and often-challenging political thriller that will potentially cause debate among moviegoers over many of the ideas that are presented in the film. The film is based on the 1988 graphic novel written by Alan Moore and illustrated by Henry Lloyd. Vendetta was written by the Wachowski Brothers (the directors of The Matrix trilogy) and directed by a Matrix assistant director, James McTeigue.
The film is set in a dystopian Great Britain, close to 20 years in the future, where the government, a fascist regime known as Norsefire, is led by a tyrannical dictator named High Chancellor Adam Sutler (played by John Hurt of Alien fame). The citizens have constantly been oppressed as their rights have been trampled on: free speech is nonexistent, curfews are in place, and homosexuality and the practice of non-Christian religions such as Islam and Judaism are forbidden. There are also obvious echoes to George Orwell's enormously influential novel 1984 present as well.
A young woman named Evey Hammond (Natalie Portman) is saved from thugs by a vigilante clad in black wearing a mask of Guy Fawkes, the famous conspirator in the Gunpowder Plot who intended to blow up the houses of Parliament in 1605 to strike a blow against the government for oppressing the Catholics. This mysterious and charismatic individual, who is extraordinarily skilled in the arts of deception, combat, and literature, is simply known as "V."
V (played by Hugo Weaving, who portrayed Agent Smith in The Matrix) vigilantly takes over the government-controlled airwaves and in his telecast he urges his fellow British citizens to rise up against oppression and tyranny. ("People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.")
Over the course of 132 minutes we learn through multiple flashbacks and the ongoing detective investigation of Chief Inspector Eric Finch (Stephen Rhea) the extent of the damage that the government has done to V's life, as well as to the rest of the country. Evey, as she learns the details of V's life and begins to understand his motivations, learns the truth about herself, and she becomes his ally in restoring freedom and individuality to their people.
It is refreshing to see such a compelling and thought-provoking film that is able to combine action with significant political allegories that reference modern day events and the foibles of the current U.S. administration. The action sequences (though few) are quite thrilling, and the performances from Weaving and Portman are both fantastic. Weaving's portrayal is particularly impressive since he is able to convey much emotion and striking ideas through his evocative vocal cadences, particularly with a brilliant and somewhat humorous speech comprised of alliteration with the letter V, as well as through his gestures.
V For Vendetta is the best film of the year so far: a stunning piece of entertainment.
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Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:14 am |
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Goldie
Forum General
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:38 pm Posts: 7286 Location: TOP*SECRET ******************** ******************** ******************** ********************
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jb007 wrote: The movie is thought provoking and succeeds in exactly what it intended to do. Just because a few do not think so, doesn't mean it isn't so. A majority of the viewers and the critics seem to agree that is a well made, fascinating look at the future. A future that was created because PEOPLE were dumb enough to give up their liberties for the apperance of safety created by mass murderers.
The best part about V is that the hero is not so much trying to kill the bad people as he is trying to wake up the populace from their stupor. Further V is not a power hungry politician or a religious fanatic. His whole purpose in life is to bring the masses to their senses. Every great revolution in history probably had a person/persons like V educating and forcing the masses to act. Good review but just as most everyone has ignored the personal aspects of the films, Natalie removing the fear from her life, and V did have 2 missions - one to change the government but also to kill everyone who was involved with his treatment > that does sound personal. Even his words, vendetta / revenge, those sound personal.
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Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:45 am |
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jb007
Veteran
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:47 pm Posts: 3917 Location: Las Vegas
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Great points about V's personal and public vendetta, Goldie.
Evey's loss of fear is somewhat symbolic of the beginning of slow but sure public revolt against the criminal rulers.
_________________ Dr. RajKumar 4/24/1929 - 4/12/2006 The Greatest Actor Ever. Thanks for The Best Cinematic Memories of My Life.
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Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:41 pm |
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Goldie
Forum General
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:38 pm Posts: 7286 Location: TOP*SECRET ******************** ******************** ******************** ********************
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in seeing the movie for a second time.......one thing that seemed like a mistake.
Now I know that he had those disguises, gloves and used the darkness
but when Natalie is in the jail, the one scene where she is having her head shaved by the guard, they show his hands in see-through plastic gloves and his hands are clearly unburned.
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Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:04 am |
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Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
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Goldie wrote: in seeing the movie for a second time.......one thing that seemed like a mistake.
Now I know that he had those disguises, gloves and used the darkness
but when Natalie is in the jail, the one scene where she is having her head shaved by the guard, they show his hands in see-through plastic gloves and his hands are clearly unburned.
C'mon! Those are clearly "hand masks" under the see-through plastic gloves...
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Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:36 am |
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Tuukka
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:35 am Posts: 1830 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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For anyone wondering why Moore disowned V For Vendetta... He disowns ALL movie versions of his books just out of principle. He thinks his comics should stay as comics, but he doesn't own the movie rights, and can't stop the movies being made. If could stop people making them, he would.
He also doesn't take any of the millions he gets from being the original creator. Instead he gives all the money to the graphical artists involved in the original comics. Just out of principle.
Moore doesn't think that it's possible to make as loyal film versions of his comics as he would want them to be. He is extremely purist about this. And he is afraid that movies are such a powerful and popular artform, that the films will overshadow the original comics and people are not able to see the comics for what they are anymore.
He's very cranky about all this, but at least he is consistent and well argumented. And the fact that he refuses to take any money that is being offered to him makes me respect him, even if I disagree with his take on movie adaptations.
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Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:58 am |
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Goldie
Forum General
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:38 pm Posts: 7286 Location: TOP*SECRET ******************** ******************** ******************** ********************
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bradley witherberry wrote: Goldie wrote: in seeing the movie for a second time.......one thing that seemed like a mistake.
Now I know that he had those disguises, gloves and used the darkness
but when Natalie is in the jail, the one scene where she is having her head shaved by the guard, they show his hands in see-through plastic gloves and his hands are clearly unburned. C'mon! Those are clearly "hand masks" under the see-through plastic gloves...
OK.
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Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:50 am |
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Cotton
Some days I'm a super bitch
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 7:22 pm Posts: 6645
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I think I agree mostly with Jeff's interpretation.
I thought it was thought provoking and relevant (although there were some parts where I had trouble drawing parallels), but it feels a little long. It's strange that it feels that way (since the filmakers throw us into the story right away and certainly don't let up) but by the end of the movie you're just looking forward for it to finish. Some parts were difficult to follow, but the main message of the movie shines through, and I think it's an admirable one. Natalie Portman gives a stellar performance as well.
B
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Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:16 pm |
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Cotton
Some days I'm a super bitch
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 7:22 pm Posts: 6645
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Sorry, but why is there a "I don't plan on seeing it" poll option? If you don't plan on seeing it, than don't vote in the poll!
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Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:19 pm |
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Alex Y.
Top Poster
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:47 pm Posts: 5811
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I found it really difficult to determine a grade to V for Vendetta. Most of the film was a B-/C+ range with too little action sequences and poorly thought out political scenes. For the ending, I was waiting for some sort of transformation for V's character to realize the evil of his ways or feel at least a little bit reprehensible. However, the ending proved to be too morally irresponsible and offensive for me to not be completely upset with the film. For now, I give it a D+, will possibly lower it a lot if it incites a bombing incident in the future.
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Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:58 am |
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Bell
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:02 am Posts: 1906 Location: Middle Of Nowhere
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i was expecting lots of action (fighting) scene in this movie, but it turns out to be more political discussion in this movie. but anyway it's an entertaining one. the plot story was good enough. B
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Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:20 am |
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Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
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alex young wrote: I found it really difficult to determine a grade to V for Vendetta. Most of the film was a B-/C+ range with too little action sequences and poorly thought out political scenes. For the ending, I was waiting for some sort of transformation for V's character to realize the evil of his ways or feel at least a little bit reprehensible. Were you expecting him to join the corrupt government as a consultant, perhaps? alex young wrote: However, the ending proved to be too morally irresponsible and offensive for me to not be completely upset with the film. For now, I give it a D+, will possibly lower it a lot if it incites a bombing incident in the future.
How low can you go?
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Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:33 pm |
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Johnny Dollar
The Lubitsch Touch
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 pm Posts: 11019
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alex young wrote: However, the ending proved to be too morally irresponsible and offensive for me to not be completely upset with the film. For now, I give it a D+, will possibly lower it a lot if it incites a bombing incident in the future.
This movie will inspire a bombing? Nah. Maybe it'll inspire some awful student films or, at worst, shitty fan fiction, but a bombing? Nah.
_________________ k
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Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:44 pm |
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Hindenberg Lighter
Full Fledged Member
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:02 pm Posts: 74 Location: Apollo Beach,Florida
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I took the movie for what it was and enjoyed it immensely. the visuals were appealing and the characters were intriguing. Portman acted better then I thought it was and Weaving was charming.
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She doesnt know that I left my urge in the icebox...
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Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:34 pm |
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Anonymous
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A+
Breathtaking, flawless, disturbing, manic.
I'm a dystopia whore. Sue me.
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Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:35 am |
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