It's happening: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/ ... index.html

Mind you, that Chavez would announce himself as socialist comes as great surprise to noone, but still, the same developments can be seen all across South America. How much do you want to bet that CHavez doesn't step down in 2007?

No, we don't. Why am I not surprised that Chavez is heading that way? Hm....




That's paranoia on his part right now (or propaganda, etc.). I don't know if this is all that necessary anyways. If Iraq stabilizes (hopefully) soon enough, the US won't need to rely on Venezuela to supply oil. What else does he have to back him up? Venezuela is rich in resources, but none like oil that would impress the US.

Maybe a backing from others in Latin America that might appreciate his sticking up to the US. I remember the same kind of sentiment pre-Iarq War 2003 surrounding Saddam. It's the case with Castro too.

People assume socialism = communism or even that communism = totalitarianism, but none of that is true.

Mind you, this guy in Venezuela is, from what I recall, not necessarily a good guy so chances are this won't be good. Still, jumping from the phrase "socialism" is silly. The United States is partially a socialist country, and most of europe is even moreso, and democracy seems to be doing just fine in those places.

Mike, when you say "people assume", who exactly do you mean? ;-)

Chavez himself came out and said he's a socialist. And not socialist in the sense "oh, let's have Social Secuirty benefits for the seniors"; he's a socialist in the sense "let's nationalize industry and take away the land from the current owners".

I didn't see that in the article, but then again I skimmed it. Like I said, I don't trust him.... but people in capitalist societies can abuse their power, too. :wink:

Yes, but what makes that work is that socialism is not the only system. What Chavez seems to be suggesting is that the socialism he wants to advocate will come at the expense of having a system that would help keep it in check. What makes the US and European systems work is that there is a continuous struggle between those systems that keeps both in check.


But even in that case, Europe, esp. Germany but especially France (!!!) are not doing all that great. Have you seen their budgets? It's ridiculous! France's is $955B, Germany's $1.08T!!! For countries that have 1/5th and 1/4th of America's population. The budget per capita is almost double that of the US. The governmental influence in France is way too great, and is not sustainable in the long run.

Oh, no doubt about that

That's why libertarianism is the best course of action - the less government you have, the less chance of the abuse there is ;-)

Mwahahahaha, I managed to push my agenda here!