This is merely for my friend, who seems to think it's trendy to say he's an atheist, yet I think if he wants to be a goddamn atheist, take away Christmas. After all, without Jesus, you got no birth, without a birth, you have no Christmas, and without Christmas, there is no Santa Claus, no presents, and no ... well, the first two cover it all. So, if someone is atheist, should they be allowed to celebrate Christmas? I say no. You want to look cool by saying there's no God, then take the consequences with it.

Atheists don't deserve to celebrate christmas. It's a religious holiday and if he (or she) doesn't understand the fact of the religious factor in christmas (or any other religious holiday that he (or she) seems to celebrate) then screw off to em.

Exactly. For once, I agree. Maybe no one goes through this, but I have quite a few friends, both in my own life and online, that claim to be atheist, but also celebrate Christmas and Easter. Pretty much because their parents are Catholic or Christian, and probably know nothing of them calling themselves atheists. Every "atheist" I know just does it to sound cool, and their parents never know about it.

My sister is like that. Except my mom and dad know about it. She only celebrates christmas because of the family and all but still it annoys me that she's willing to do it even if it goes against what is supposed to be. Me & my sister are quite different but we get along. She's a hardcore liberal, I'm the crazy conservative. She doesn't believe in god, I'm a good ol' fashion christian (roman catholic! not the hippy protestants).

If your friends would be smarter they'd call themselves agnostics...

OTOH, I wonder how many people do really think of Jesus during Christmas holidays??? (And I'm not talking here about the 'picturesque' scenes from Bethelem to entertain kids... I'm talking about his teachings, his life legacy, and incorporating that into our own lives, if possible... :wink: )

If a TV exec is reading this, you just may have created the next big CBS sitcom hit. :wink: Seriously, that sounds like a good idea for a TV show. Or a book.

There are people out there who really do. My sister's boyfriends family is hardcore christians.

Well think about it! The only reason there are protestants out there is because the king of england was a total manwhore.

See, thinking about the TRUE meaning of Christmas is something that could be discussed a different time, because that's an entirely different story.

Although, for those looking for a true meaning of Christmas (the whole family deal, all of the giving, white Christmas deal), The Polar Express is a great movie. It doesn't at all touch on Jesus or anything about the TRUE Christmas, but the real meaning that most families still overlook is what the movie tries to explore.

Manwhore. What an awesome word.

Yeah, and only European white's should celebrate Thanksgiving and Pagan's should celebrate Halloween. Please, you guys. I am an atheist, and I celebrate Christmas. I'm not celebrating the birth of a savior or lord, but benevolence and goodwill. Also, even as an atheist I am able to recognize the importance of Jesus Christ's teachings. He is one of the greatest teachers of peace and tolerence in all of history, and that is something to be celebrated.

So you believe that Jesus existed yet denounce christianity or religion in total... Interesting.

Christmas is not a religious holiday in itself, it also is associated with many other traditions. Look, should your friend go to church or, I dunno what this involves, eat a wafer and sip some wine if he doesn't believe in God...that's his call. If he believes in the liturgy and its history, I guess. Chances are he doesn't, so he's not going to be saying any Ave Maria's anytime soon. But if he wants to decorate a tree and buy some presents and hang out with his family, all the more power to him.

I don't believe in the Judeo-Christian God as He is represented in the OT, I still consider myself Jewish. I still fast on Yom Kippur because I have respect for the cultural traditions.

That's like asking if we didn't directly step of the Mayflower should we celebrate Thanksgiving.

I didin't say he existed. I have no way of knowing that. I said the teachings brought forth in the bible made by Jesus are good, even if he is a fictional character.

I think a lot of you are really going a little far with the Thanksgiving thing. That doesn't apply at all. Christmas would NOT exist without Jesus. Period. How can you celebrate for anything else BESIDES its original intent?

Edit: Celebrate presents and Santa and all that jazz without the original intent first and foremost.

Yeah, exactly. No one knows WHEN Jesus was born, so they just piggy-backed the celebration with the Saturnalia, which was just an excuse at winter equinox to eat, drink and womanize for like 12 days or something like that. It's as "pagan" as they come. Same with Easter, which was originally a holiday dedicted to getting laid... which K would undoubtedly enjoy.

And Thanksgiving would not exist without the Mayflower and the people on it. I fail to see how this connection with Christmas is a stretch.

I think you all forget one small thing.

CHRISTmas.

Without the CHRIST in Christmas, there ain't a Christmas. If there was no Christ, there would be no OTHER traditions surrounding Christmas. It may be a holiday, but it wouldn't be Christmas, and it would undoubtedly be LARGELY alterred.

Hey hey with the personal attacks there. Everyone would like to get laid. It's a proven fact.

I don't recall anyone who celebrated Thanksgiving as a religious holiday.

It's unfortuante that Christmas is so commercialize now its ridiculous. If you are not Christian dont celebrate Christmas. I don't celebrate Chanukah. I don't celebrate Ramadan. I'm a catholic so i celebrate Christmas. Celebrate what yoiu belive in.

Huh? Wha?

Christmas would not exist without Christ. Thanksgiving would not exist without Pilgrims. You're saying that if you are not a Christian, you should not celebrate Christmas. That's like saying if you're not a white European, you should not celebrate Thanksgiving. I have no clue what your above post was pertaining to.

Exactly, Coasterman.

There's no evidence that the First Chrs even celebrated "Christmas."

In fact, there's no proof on JC's existence, other than his suggested relationship to James, who was bishop of the Jerusalem Church until the Temple fell in 70 CE. Yet some Chrs say JC couldn't have brothers or sisters, so now what do you do? How do you prove a negative?

St. Nick - on the other hand - was the real deal. But that's a few centuries later.

hey look, even an atheist or an agnostic or gnostic or druid can appreciate the beauty of the celebration, especially the music. Hell, even a pagan can sing in the choir.

That makes no sense at all. Comparing Christmas and Thanksgiving is apples and oranges. Religion has nothing to do with pilgrims or Thanksgiving. My whole thread is pertaining to religion, not a goddamn day for turkey and giving thanks.