http://walmartwatch.com/blog/archives/w ... ses_alive/


North Palm Beach County shoppers looking for low-priced pants, patio furniture and DVD players will owe an awesome debt to five dead reptiles.

The five gopher tortoises had the bad luck to dig their burrows on the site of a future Wal-Mart in Lake Park. And they paid a ghastly price: The state allowed the store’s developers to bury the tortoises alive earlier this year, leaving them to starve or gasp for air for the weeks or months it would take them to die. Wal-Mart paid $11,409 for the permit.

“I was outraged and shocked that they can do this,” said Cynthia Pandolfe, a Honolulu resident who was one of many people to receive an e-mail alert from the Humane Society of the United States denouncing the actions of Wal-Mart and the state. “They’re basically selling their souls.”

“People are upset, even in our agency, at the individual losses of tortoises,” said Kim Jamerson, a spokeswoman for the state Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, which issues the burial permits. “Many of our staff have devoted their lives to gopher tortoise conservation.”

Wal-Mart also doesn’t relish the idea of entombing tortoises, spokesman Eric Brewer said. He said the company considers burial a last resort and is interested in working on alternatives.

“This will come up again, and we want to do a better job than what’s been happening,” he said.

I guess after hearing about this I would rather pay higher prices at another retail store than to support Walmart. Its not the first time Walmart has done this to other animals. They recently did it also to an endangered bird camp area as reported on that one Penn And Teller show

Those endangered species were asking for it. That's why they're endangered.

So did walmart just get bored and decide that torturing animals to death would be kind of fun?

Dont these people have photocopiers which they can use to make humorous and immature prints of their genitalia with?

That's what happends when you try to take on the man. Let that be a lesson to young hippies out there.

I dont give a crap,im still buying at the cheaper store.

Exactly

Any and all respect I had for you, dear neo_wolf, has just imploded unto itself. I'm sorry you'd prefer to save $2.50 in exchange for the rape of the natural world.

Oh stop it with this self-righteous bullshit. You didn't even read the story.

As many as 74,000 gopher tortoises have met the same doom in the past 14 years, with the blessing of Florida's wildlife regulators.

...

Wal-Mart also doesn't relish the idea of entombing tortoises, spokesman Eric Brewer said. He said the company considers burial a last resort and is interested in working on alternatives.

"This will come up again, and we want to do a better job than what's been happening," he said.

Wal-Mart is far from alone. Gopher tortoises have suffered from countless housing subdivisions, shopping centers, roads and other developments throughout Florida. They've also posed obstacles to some projects, including Florida Atlantic University's long-troubled effort to build a football stadium in Boca Raton.

These are the main rubs: The tortoises thrive in the same high, sandy ground that developers prize. And the most popular alternative to burial — moving the tortoises someplace else — has serious drawbacks.

Some gopher tortoises suffer from a contagious respiratory disease, so the state won't allow landowners to move them off-site. And some relocation attempts do more harm than good: Dumped onto unsuitable habitat, the tortoises try to flee, only to fall victim to cars or dogs.

Landowners also can move the tortoises to a safe spot within the same tract as their original burrow. But eventually that can leave tortoises scattered in isolated spots throughout a subdivision, unable to reach each other to breed.

All you people are looking for is something to pin on Wal-Mart without regard for the facts.

So the best alternative is to bury them alive KREM? You guys are all sick if you think that is a viable option. Shame on all of you.

BY all means, you're more than welcome to come with a better alternative that is approved by the state (whose laws Wal-Mart has to go by).

pleasea don't kill the animals
there is blood in the animals.

Krem
The problem stems with big corporations having the money to buy out land reservations that are reserved for endangered species. Florida is one of the only few places that actually respects wild life as long you arent part of a big corporation that can shell out $20,000 to buy out land areas. Any Joe Schmo would of had a big NO NO if they were to build a house right on a animal reservation area. I also partly blame the Florida laws that dont allow the relocation of native species. Its silly that you would get fined for moving say a blanding turtle off the road just so it doesnt get run over because the law states that "any native wild life cannot be removed from its premise". The least that the contractors for Walmart can do is delay the project instead of proceeding through schedule to save a few bucks.

You would think that with so many regulations with construction that the least they can do is delay a project a day or two and get a permit from a statesman to relocate the wild life. There are ridiculous construction rules where any slope exceeding 2% has to be reconstructed because it doesnt meet the American Disability Act.

And yes I put Walmart as my target because they have done that a few times in the past especially cutting down into the spotted owl forest

Oh and Baba, I know you are mocking those animal rights activist with those comments but in your freetime you like to club mooses in Canada but in here we are almost talking about torturing animals by burying them alive as opposed to killing for food

According to State Law, a person wouldnt be allowed to build their property in a wildlife preservation area. But since the state of Florida allowed it because the corporation either pushed for it to say generate more revenue for the city, they could of easily got a permit to remove the animals too just like an exporter and importer animal breeder is able to obtain a license ship animals out of the country. You also missed the part about moving them somewhat offsite. Its still a better alternative then burying them alive even replicating their environment gives them a higher chance of survival than burial

Some gopher tortoises suffer from a contagious respiratory disease, so the state won't allow landowners to move them off-site. And some relocation attempts do more harm than good: Dumped onto unsuitable habitat, the tortoises try to flee, only to fall victim to cars or dogs.

Repristory diseas, dogs, cars? Sounds like its too close to a factory or something.Must of been isolated cases where landowners were just too lazy to move them to a site far from industrial grounds when dogs and cars can get to them and kill them. There are sites that are far away from industrial grounds. Its not like you would relocate a lake of fish near industrial ground would you?

I'm sorry what would delaying the project accomplish, exactly?


The article clearly says that they CANNOT relocate the wildlife because the state won't allow it. The only thing they can do is *gasp* bury them alive.

Oh, and I'm sure you got that from a source that's just as unbiased as Walmart Watch, right?

Now, I realize that Wal-Mart isn't a pillar of animal rights activism, but it's not any worse than anyone else. The article says that the state allowed 74,000 of gophers turtoise to be buried alive within the last 14 years; that's over 5,000 per year. Wal-Mart gets a permit to bury 5 of them and gets a shitstorm, while you're happily ignoring everyone else doing the same thing. Wal-Mart is bigger than anyone else and thus they get the most beating. They're the Microsoft of the retail world.

I'm in agreement with Krem.

I didn't miss that part, I quoted it in my post. Here it is again: Landowners also can move the tortoises to a safe spot within the same tract as their original burrow. But eventually that can leave tortoises scattered in isolated spots throughout a subdivision, unable to reach each other to breed.

"It's kind of a feel-good permit," wildlife commission biologist Ricardo Zambrano said of that last option. "It has very little biological value for the tortoises."

No explain to me, where in the article does it say that they're building on a wildlife preservation area? I didn't see it anywhere.

Well take it up with the state then, since the state itself won't allow this regulation.

That's what sickens me. WalMart simply buried the animals alive, and there's nothing the government can do about it. They did this and it's all completely legal.



To quote an idol of mine...."Yeah, but you guys were thinking so hard on weather or not you could, you didn't stop to think if you should." WalMart was in full legal limits to do what they did. Does that make it any better?

Like I said before, COME UP WITH A BETTER SOLUTION! You're so set in your hate against Wal-Mart you can't even realize that there's nothing it can actually do to change this. These turtles make their habitat in the same land humans want to use; and to be honest with you, between humans and turtles, I choose humans.

i choose turtles

An animal that comes with his own home. Can't beat that!

What can you do to change this? Go into Florida legislature perhaps. Get a bill going. They're a liberal place, I'm sure a bill like using this story as part of the debate will go through smoothly.

If it were down to expanding actual homes for humans, or something equally as neccessary, than I would probably agree with you. But WalMart isn't a neccessity. They don't need to build on that very spot of land. (Florida's a shit hole to begin with....why anyone would want to build anything there is beyond me) They can't relocate them. They can do little to help the tortoises. So you're just saying that burying them alive is now a viable option?

I'd love to see corporate America bury you alive one day so that people can save that $4.50 on the next U2 album.

I don't care to change this; I accept it as a part of life. You're the one who's getting all up in arms about it because Wal-Mart got the permit to bury 5 turtles, while 5000 turtles a year also get buried without you making a peep about it.


So what you're saying is the only valid reason to build something is so that people can live there? I'm sure you'd love to shop in open space markets in 120 degrees where meat goes rotten. Give me a fucking break.

I'm not making a peep about it because the article in question is about WalMart's actions. I never said Target is a bastion of light and truth for never doing something as low as burying animals alive.



I said The only valid reason for burying animals alive is to build new homes. And I also said that any other neccessity akin to new homes (say, for example, a new school) would probably be valid as well.

And my point is that you jump on Wal-Mart without thinking twice because they're such an easy target. It's so easy to say "OMG WAL-MART BURIES THE ANIMALS ALIVE" and sound so self-righteous, while the reality is nowhere near close to being that simple.

If you had read the article you'd know that these turtles make habitat in the exact same place that are most suitable for development; you can't just build stuff anywhere you want - it has to make sense. And unfortunately for these turtles, their land makes the most sense.