I suggest everyone check out a book called "The Case For Christ" by Lee Strobel. It details the questions he asked regarding the validity of the Bible and the existence of God as a non-Christian. His quest did eventually lead to him becoming a Christian.

First of all, I'm not a religious person as I'm assuming you're not as well. Let me pose a scenario for you:

I don't know if you have children or a wife but I'm guessing you do. If one of them had some incurable deadly disease and you had exhausted every option for treatment (they were going to die), do you think you may pray to something or someone for help? "O please if there is a god, help my child"

Argument: If there were no God-figure, then the universe is a perpetual motion machine. Atheism violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

i've never really seen it said in this way before. hee hee.

Provide a proof that there is additional energy being created in the Universe.

That isn't a valid argument, as it has been proven, within reason, that no additional energy is being created and no energy is being destroyed.

The only time when the second law of thermodynamics comes into question is when dealing with the "Big Bang".

In Science something cant be created out of nothing,so they will never have an answer on how it all started.

I think you're confusing the Second Law with the First Law.


How is this not a perpetual motion machine?

Eh, nobody really has an answer that does not require a leap of faith, whether or not they admit it. It is all hear-say.

Because it's absolutely not. In any kind of machine, no energy is being created and no energy is being destroyed. What happens is the transfer of energy between different forms.

Exactly, energy is transfered from "potential" to "kinetic" but never created.

I have a wife; she got cancer a few years ago and has gone through years of operations and radiation. She now has lost the use of her right arm pretty much, since her main muscle had to be removed.

No, I never prayed to anyone, and in fact, I told someone else that if a god existed and he allowed this to happen to my wife, then he didn't deserve my worship anyway.

I will not bow down to tyrants.

:grin: :2up:

I assume you are not being serious!

I've always been intrigued by the possibility that Jesus was actually teaching passive resistance against the Romans, mixed with teaching his people to clean up their own act and treating each other well as part of that. That he was as much a political figure as religious.

Yeah because if there's a God everything should be just perfect if you believe in him and nothing bad at all happens to you because everything's just perfect.

And the tyrant comparison is a stretch.

A lot of people say that you have to believe in god and worship him because if you don't, he'll punish you and send you to hell. That sounds like a tyrant to me -- follow me or die.

And if you read my comment again, my point is this: when terrible things happen to ourselves or people we love, why would that make someone more religious? It seems to me it would make you less. If there is a god, from what I can see, he created the world and then left. Why should I admire that? Why should I worship that? Why isn't he using his powers for good, like Superman does? Why isn't he stopping wars and curing cancers? If he has all this power, why doesn't he use it?

You don't belive in having your faith tested? Satan is responsible for most of these accidents. God allows them to happen, yes, but only to test our faith.

If everything good happened, it would be too easy to get to Heaven. Life is one giant test of a person's faith and how they use it.

He doesn't send anyone to hell. You choose to go to hell. God only gives another option. All he asks is for you to ask Jesus into your heart.

That books a joke. I own it and it has so many errors it's not even funny. For example; Bill Craig claims that Hawking can't write God out of the picture because of imaginary numbers, thus he is deceiving people. But of course, he does not realize imaginary numbers are real, because he thinks they are 'imaginary' - but then again, when hasn't a Christian distorted facts and lied? Lee Strobel is one sided and interviews only Christians anyways. He basically goes to the people he KNOWS will say "Well Strobel, you are right..." and then they give him distorted facts such as one from Bill. Christianity is fading and the evidence is dissapearing, and some Christians are realizing this, and thus resort to lying such as Lee Strobel, Josh McDowell and Michael Behe (I think he's a Christian).

But who says it couldn't always be here in some shape or form? If God can be eternal, why not the universe?

What do you base this on?

The fact Islam is the fastest growing religion and Christianity went from 35% to 33%, it's not fading fast but it's going to die as science destroys God like it did with Zeus and other Pagan gods (Christianity is Pagan).

Once again you prove you really don't know much about the topic at hand. Suprised? Nah.

Christianity is not fading, just like every other religion and belief system it is changing, accepting new ideas as human intelligence expands.

You could say true science is fading, based on your statement, because nobody believes the Earth is flat and the center of the universe. No, science just accepted new ideas and worked them in to existing theories and laws.

Simple as that.

That doesn't mean Christianity is fading. If I assume that stat is the way it is (35% of the world pop is Christian down to 33%), it could mean another religion is just growing faster. It's like the number of seats in the House of Representative. Just because a state's seat numbers goes down, doen't mean the state isn't growing.

Right. Not sure how you came up with this but whatever.