I still do not see a direct conflict of interest. Saying, "Oh, the area prosecutor has dealt closely with the area police in the past" goes without saying, and to impugn his competency or clarity because of his father's death is simply vile.
Calling for the smelling salts and fainting couch is not a rebuttal. Your constant appeals for everyone else to bend to your ephemeral personal sense of decorum is beneath even you.
He has never prosecuted a cop shooting in 23 years. This is the first one he has even brought before a grand jury.
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:33 am Posts: 34865 Location: Maryland
Re: Ferguson, Missouri
mdana wrote:
David wrote:
I still do not see a direct conflict of interest. Saying, "Oh, the area prosecutor has dealt closely with the area police in the past" goes without saying, and to impugn his competency or clarity because of his father's death is simply vile.
Calling for the smelling salts and fainting couch is not a rebuttal. Your constant appeals for everyone else to bend to your ephemeral personal sense of decorum is beneath even you.
Ha ha ha.
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Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:00 pm
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: Ferguson, Missouri
mdana wrote:
i.hope wrote:
The attempts by the state patrol or the local police to subdue protests seemed to have provoked even more unnecessary confrontations. And the way the local police handled the investigation of the shooting including the timing and the selective-ness of release of information only reinforced the perception that the police were not impartial in their judgment.
My suggestions:
The police should try a hands-off approach to the protests. Let the crowds proceed. Only observe and videorecord them. The protesters should at the same time film the protests or even broadcast live on the web. Hopefully we should see both sides exercising restraint when everything is under the sunlight.
And to restore public trust, the city's elected officials can appoint a civilian body that reports only to the mayor or the city council to monitor and review the police investigation of the shooting.
What about looting? How do the protesters self-police criminality. I don't really care about property damage (if allowing it provides public safety), but there have been dangerous situations involving reckless shooting and Molotov cocktails, exacerbated by the military presence and heavy handedness of the local police force-Ferguson and St. Louis Co. I wish Gov. Nixon, Holder, and Obama had been on the same page a week ago when it was obvious that the local leadership was stonewalling and in over their heads in their ability to handle the situation.
Looting can be dealt with in a targeted manner, like increasing security near the stores.
Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:02 pm
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: Ferguson, Missouri
mdana wrote:
I am amazed at how the vast majority have handled this situation with relative calm when the police have at times been very belligerent and even thuggish at times in their responses to media and protesters. When I was 20, I would not have handled seeing people I felt an affinity towards manhandled or assaulted by tear-gas and rubber bullets.
I guess not many people are comfortable seeing the militarization of local police and their aggressive approach to maintaining order and along the way intimidating voices of dissent. People are just either too busy playing the partisan game or being cynical, and have yet to put up a united front to do something meaningful about this.
Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:28 pm
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: Ferguson, Missouri
Ferguson, MO (August 19):
Quote:
Huffington Post: Video taken Tuesday night during protests in Ferguson, Missouri, show an officer pointing his weapon at civilians, shouting: "I will fucking kill you."
Two separate videos uploaded to YouTube on Wednesday show the officer pointing a rifle at protestors.
"Gun raised, gun raised and pointed," a protestor shouts out, alerting others as the officer approaches closer.
"My hands are up," another protestor says.
"I will fucking kill you, get back!" the officer shouts.
Another protestor asks for the officer to identify himself.
"What's your name, sir?" he asks.
"Go fuck yourself," the officer replies.
In another video, protestors can be heard shouting at the officer to lower his weapon. At least one other cop can be seen trying to deescalate the situation by placing his hand on the weapon to lower it.
August 20: The St. Ann Police Department has released a statement saying the officer involved in threatening protestors has been "suspended indefinitely."
Almost 10 per cent of the 28,000-strong police force gathered yesterday as units from across the city took part in what is understood to have been the second major exercise to prepare for the Occupy Central civil disobedience campaign.
Some 2,600 officers received training at the Police College in Wong Chuk Hang, next to Ocean Park, on how to remove people from a sit-in and how to process the arrests, a police source familiar with the matter said. Liaison with media was described as a "key area" of the training, he said.
The arrangements were similar to the first major exercise, said to have involved about 1,600 officers in late June. Neither drill was announced to the media. This time, training covered more about arrestees' rights, such as ensuring access to food and lawyers, following the July 2 sit-in on Chater Road, the source said.
"Shame on police," 600 officers acting as mock protesters chanted as songs favoured by social activists played in the background. Commissioner of Police Andy Tsang Wai-hung, believed to have been absent from the first drill, turned up to "show his support", the source said.
Photographers trying to capture the goings-on from 100 metres away saw an officer apparently make a gun gesture with his hands, "aiming" at them.
A police spokeswoman said the force was investigating whether the officer's behaviour was appropriate and would treat any breach of rules seriously.
In response to queries about the exercise, a spokeswoman said only that the force trained regularly to prepare officers for public order events.
Occupy organisers have threatened to block streets in Central should the official framework for the 2017 chief executive election not live up to international standards of universal suffrage.
Some moderate pan-democrats including Civic Party chairwoman Audrey Eu Yuet-mee, former Democratic Party lawmaker Cheung Man-kwong and chairman of the Association for Democracy and People's Livelihood Bruce Liu Sing-lee have been invited to attend a meeting with senior Beijing officials in Shenzhen on Friday.
Some police officers have an attitude problem with the media and civilians. And cameras and the media are there to keep them in check.
Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:51 pm
Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11619 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
Re: Ferguson, Missouri
It is surprising and saddening how accepting even approving some people around the country are about the frankly unprofessional at best, barbaric at worst the police are in handling these protests and riots
I find the complaints against the prosecutor very grating. He is an elected figure with over two decades of experience. The idea he should recuse himself because he has family ties to law enforcement is farcical. There is no direct conflict of interest. And there is no guarantee a subsequent special prosecutor would not have his or her own history the protestors might find distasteful.
An elected official who the people distrust. This situation is unique, the governor has the ability to replace him for a reason, this situation screams for it. This isn't about him, this is about a nations trust in law enforcement and government, he should be removed for that reason alone, there can be no perceived bias here. The officer isn't going to be charged, keeping him on just enflames the situation.
It is surprising and saddening how accepting even approving some people around the country are about the frankly unprofessional at best, barbaric at worst the police are in handling these protests and riots
Its cultural, the value of life is astonishingly low. Violence is the norm.
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Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:10 am
Jedi Master Carr
Extraordinary
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:51 pm Posts: 11637
Re: Ferguson, Missouri
So will Ferguson blow up now that they won't indict Wilson? I think it is kind of ridiculous. It is obvious the prosecutor didn't want to indict him. They could indict a ham sandwich if they wanted to. It is pretty easy to manipulate a grand jury.
To be fair, I consider this to be much like the Zimmerman case in that I'm just not sure there was evidence to support what the public wanted. I just find it terrifyingly depressing how little justification needs to be present to kill someone, how disgusting the police culture has become, and how pervasive the race and socio-economic disparity is in this country.
So much about this and many other current events just make me very sad. Sad for people I've never met, sad for different economic and social groups, and mostly just sad for our species and where we currently sit in our evolutionary path.
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Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:01 pm
Jedi Master Carr
Extraordinary
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:51 pm Posts: 11637
Re: Ferguson, Missouri
I think they could have gotten an indictment for manslaughter. Of course, not sure if they would have gotten a conviction. I suppose the FBI still might charge him. Finally, if Wilson has any brains he move to Alaska or somewhere with few people for a long time.
The prosecutor or whoever he was gave a somewhat detailed synopsis of what happened just before, during and after the incident. I think it's clear it was justified in my view and these protests just grew from misinfo that spread after the incident. Can't erase that now but some of these folks need to move on now and stop trashing stuff again.
As for the cop, he will need to move yo Oklahoma or something for the foreseeable future.
_________________ 2009 World of KJ Fantasy Football World Champion Team MVP : Peyton Manning : Record 11-5 : Points 2669.00 [b]FREE KORRGAN 45TH PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.A. DONALD J. TRUMP #MAGA #KAG! 10,000 post achieved on - Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:49 pm
Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:41 pm
Jedi Master Carr
Extraordinary
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:51 pm Posts: 11637
Re: Ferguson, Missouri
I really don't know if it is justify. And yeah I read the report and I doubt most of it. I just don't believe anything since I wasn't there. However, I have to say the press are pretty ridiculous. They make it sound like worse than the LA Riots after Rodney King. From what I can tell that still was worse than these riots.
If LA riots happen now, it would have been so much bigger because of the news cycle these days.
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Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:42 am
mdana
Veteran
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:07 pm Posts: 3004
Re: Ferguson, Missouri
nghtvsn wrote:
The prosecutor or whoever he was gave a somewhat detailed synopsis of what happened just before, during and after the incident. I think it's clear it was justified in my view and these protests just grew from misinfo that spread after the incident. Can't erase that now but some of these folks need to move on now and stop trashing stuff again.
As for the cop, he will need to move yo Oklahoma or something for the foreseeable future.
It was interesting to me what he focused on and what he chose to ignore. He tried to give the impression that the eyewitnesses contradicted the physical evidence, but then never gave a satisfactory explanation on why Officer Wilson was shooting a fleeing suspect and why MB's body was 155 ft (if I heard him correctly at the presser) from the initial point of contact. That is half a football field. Was OW ever drug tested? McCullough was quick to point out that MB had broken the law and that officer Wilson followed training, but he gave no evidence to substantiate his statements. He came across as OW's defense attorney and not a prosecutor.
I will look at the GJ transcripts if they are ever released and see if there is something I am missing, but it would have been easy to bring an indictment (conviction is a much higher hurdle and more probelmatic) if McCullough had actually wanted it. I never got the impression he wanted to bring forth any charges due to the unorthodox way he chose to present the case. If I am ever up for an indictment, I wish the prosecutor would be so forgiving in eliciting and presenting evidence.
He is a POS as far as I am concerned in the way he tried to throw the blame onto the Brown family and the community in terms of preventing this from happening in the future. Whitewashes like this create more problems than they solve as we can see by the unrest going on at the moment.
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:53 pm Posts: 8627 Location: Syracuse, NY
Re: Ferguson, Missouri
They burned down Taco Bell. This has gone too far.
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Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:29 am
mdana
Veteran
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:07 pm Posts: 3004
Re: Ferguson, Missouri
movies35 wrote:
They burned down Taco Bell. This has gone too far.
No doubt, they chose not to bring charges, grand jury's can do whatever they want, and this one wanted to protect an officer (or maybe prevent a circus). Either way, there's no way he would be convicted at trial.
Unbelievable that this didn't go to trial. Un. Fucking. Believable.
Oh! How tragic.
Why are you so "outraged"? I'm curious.
The legal process played itself out and a Grand Jury decided to not bring charges. Why aren't you satisfied?
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A kid was murdered. And the murderer didn't have to face a jury.
How would you fucking feel if your child was murdered and their killer didn't have to stand trial?
You are so emotionally charged it's ridiculous.
The kid (thief...no disputing that) was killed during a confrontation with a police officer. That's it. Happens all the time. Forgive me if I have less empathy when folks doing follow police officer commands and are thieves to boot.
Murdered...I LOVE your rhetoric!
_________________ 2009 World of KJ Fantasy Football World Champion Team MVP : Peyton Manning : Record 11-5 : Points 2669.00 [b]FREE KORRGAN 45TH PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.A. DONALD J. TRUMP #MAGA #KAG! 10,000 post achieved on - Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:49 pm
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