I agree with that, but once more, that wasn't the topic of the thread. I was just trying to get the discussion back to the original argument.

The first post here said basically that since I don't believe in Christ, I shouldn't be allowed to participate in Christmas -- in other words "Merry Christmas, except for YOU, you atheist. We are not going to let you participate in our holiday. Take down those decorations and stop showing goodwill to your fellow man!"

As long as an atheist doesn't try to stop me from celebrating Christmas, I don't care what they do.

As if most Christians celebrated the holiday as a religious holiday.

Umm, it's not even about religion anymore. Maybe at one point it was, but not now.

And Santa Claus is a religious figure? Hmmm.

And is it wrong to believe and favor the spirit of Christmas, just like you can acknowledge certain good things/messages about a certain religion, even if you don't believe in the religion itself?

And since you're all so into it...and think it has to be all about Christianity, do you mind telling me what giving presents, Santa Claus, etc. has to do with religion?

P.S. How many of you Christians celebrate Halloween?

I thought so :wink:

I think Athiests should celebrate Eid with me too. I DEMAND IT DAMNIT!

Ok, finally going back and reading everything..all 10 pages! Ah. should've done it sooner.

Yopu're totally missing the point, I think. I'm jsut gonna repeast what wings has already said.

Without Christ there wouldn't be a Christmas?

Ok, Without pilgrims, there wouldn't be a Thanksgiving, yet you're not a pilgrim and you celebrate Thanksgiving? Because you tihnk it's ok to give thanks even if the orinal purpose of the holiday is not what was originally given thanks for?

Thank why is it so hard to understand that you can celebrate Christmas cause you strongly believe in the message and spirit of Christmas, even if it's not for the same reasons it was orignially intended for, which even most Christians fail to do?!

Excellent point. And how many non-Irish or non-Catholics celebrate St Patrick's Day?

It's nice to see a little bit of wisdom on the boards every once in a while

I think I understand why the difference exists.

Assuming that Christmas is a Christian thing, which many are saying are not, but then again, i'm not one so can't judge:

Athiests denounce religion. I think thats the major issue here. Thats where the difference between something like thanksgiving and christmas comes in. While thanksgiving is not something denounced, just not part of a culture, Christmas in this scenario is a Christian events. Athiests deny the existance of God, meaning deny religion itself and hence, its events as well.

Then again, thats just how I see it. Frankly, I don't care what anyone celebrates.

And was it Christmas when the holiday was first started?

There are these little things called translations that change the meaning of the words.

I'm hispanic.

That means I'm allowed to celebrate Christmas even if I don't see it as a religious holiday...because "Christ" is not in the spanish translation for Christmas....right?

No it wasn't :wink:

And maybe it was misnamed to begin with? Just like many other words don't really have anything to do with the origins of the roots in it?

Can I celebrate the holidays, do the tree, presents, santa everything, and call it Roddimas? IT has nothing to do with religion, just my own holiday I decided to start :wink:

It's not that it was a bad topic to debate, it's just that, and I don't mean this in a bad way to anyone (well, kinda ) you and a few other people showed a lot of ignorance about the meaning, origin, etc. of what is supposed to be your holiday.

Bleh. I'm done.

Gotta start my holiday shopping.

:wink:

I don't celebrate Halloween in any way.

:wink: I always mention that I don't mean to generalize when I talk about certain groups, there are always exceptions. Many of them...sometimes a majority.

But still I bet most of the people who are in this thread saying atheists shouldn't celebrate Christmas are jumping for joyyyy when Halloweed comes around. ...And I won't get into the history of halloween and it's original purposes :wink:

Welcome to the boards!

I knew your posting style seemed too familiar.

(then again so does everybody else's) :wink:

As an atheist, I deny the existence of the supernatural, and that includes gods, ghosts, leprechauns, ESP, fortunetellers, and vampires.

That doesn't mean I deny YOU the right to believe in these things. I may wish you would "see the light" and embrace logic instead of superstition, but I am in no way telling you that you cannot practice your religion. In fact, I want to make sure that the government does NOT tell you how to run your religion, because if they can force you to believe in a certain way, they can do the same to me. I want government out of the religion business completely.

Please understand that when I disagree with your belief, it does not mean that I denounce these things (as you put it). "Denounce" makes it seem that I (and other atheists) are protesting your right to believe whatever you want. Not so. You go ahead and believe.

Some religious people take things too far (big surprise, huh?) They assume that because we don't believe in god, we therefore do not believe in any of the preachings of religion either, and that we are amoral and possibly even evil people. Well, from what I can see, there is a lot of evil being done in the world by religious folks, and quite often in the name of their god. I hardly think morality exists only among those who believe in the supernatural.

Anyway, I've kind of gone off my point I think, but I was trying to say that atheists are only NOT trying to stop Christmas, but we want to be a part of it as well -- except for the religion part. We think it's good to have a time of the year where we promote good will to all, and exchange presents with those we love. And what's wrong with that? Or does religion only believe in sharing with and loving those who agree with them?

Christmas has lost much of its original meaning in the sense that anyone can celebrate it with traditions of Christmas such as shopping, presents, Boxing Day (in Canada ), family dinners, etc. etc without having to delve deeply into the religious aspects of it. Most people today treat it as just any ordinary holiday; therefore Christmas should be called Christmas and not "the Holiday". The word doesn't offend most people and the main 'morals' that surround Christmas these days are basically giving vs. receiving and being nice to people, things that anyone can do.



First of all I'm not talking about candles and lighting in general. I'm talking about traditional, run of the mill Christmas lights. Hannukah has its own candles/menorah, etc., but we don't see people calling them "holiday menorahs" .
Second of all I put "holidays" in quotes because I was not referring to the word holiday but rather the fact that they've replaced actually holidays with a term that's meaningless. It's like calling every that 'human'.

You misunderstand what I am saying here.
I do not deny anyone the right to do what they want. Hell, I celebrate Diwali with my friends when I can .... considering how quickly Islam denounces all concepts of Hinduism.

This is really not about what you allow someone to believe and not to believe. My statements were made in light of a comparison made between thanksgiving and christmas. Denying the existance of something is like telling someone their beliefs are wrong. Sure you're not stopping anyone but you're basically choosing to end any affiliation to its practices (specific to it). Thanksgiving is a holiday to mark an actual event that took place. There is no way I can deny the event from actually taking place .. it wouldn't make sense.

Really, my whole point was to show that the 2 comparisons are like apples and oranges.

Actually I would say it is a fair comparison, there is evidence that Jesus did existt and so that wold make his birth a fact.

Athiests just dispute that he was the son of God, since they don't believe there is a God for him to be the son of. Some athiests may dispute his very existance, but even then they are really disputing the existence of a song of god.

Sure there is little point to celebrate the birth of a guy who you do nto see as divine but we have holidays for the birth of all sorts of people in history.

Christmas ceased to be abotu the birht of cChrist a long tiem ago, if they holiday were mainly a religious one atheists would not want to celebrate it. But its not a religious holiday, its marketed to the American people as a day to be with people you love, and appreciate them by giving presents...its marketed as aholiday for kids and their belief in things that are intangible without proof...

The Christians may not like that the religion has been tkaen out of their holiday, but it is a tad late to be complaining, they did borow the holiday from the pagans.

If the pagans had no holiday in December, the Christians would not have a holiday in December either.

Well think about most of the comments in this thread only .... a lot of people call his whole life is fairy tale.

Ofcourse, I'm not even brringing up where christmas holiday comes from. But i said in the first post here a few posts up that I'm assuming its a christian holiday for the sake of argument.

I would reply, but I'm too busy listening to my Rock Classics Medley.

This is a pretty funny thread, and was an enjoyable read. Unfortunately, I learned a few things too, and I don't come here to learn, so that was kind of a downer. Oh, and it was long. I feel it my duty to do a summary for those who came in late, like me.

Mr. X: Atheists should not celebrate Christmas.

Makeshift_wings: That's stupid. Why should you care?

Mr. X.: You've insulted me. But, ok, you can now celebrate Christmas, just don't use the name.

Shad: Christmas is actually a pagan holiday that Christians adopted. Since it's pagan origin, shouldn't Christians be the ones to not celebrate it as a matter of principal? Oh, and Mozart licks ass.

Mr. X: I have no answer for the pagan thing. Please debate this without bringing up good points that hurt my feelings.

Mike Ventrella: Atheists love puppies too.

Beeblebrox: Hi. I'm Megamoze.

bABA: Just want everyone to know I like girls in case you were thinking I was gay.

Mr. X: I really expected a warm reception to this topic. Your taking it the wrong way.

There. That should save a few of you from having to read the entire thing over again.

Bah, Tony, you totally ignored my posts in this thread.

I am now offended. You know what, I don't think YOU should be allowed to celebrate Christmas. There, I feel better.

See this is a fundamental misunderstanding.

Athiests do not believe in a god, a higher power or multiple gods. They do not however denounce other religious docterines any more than a Christian would denounce Muslims.

Get this fundamentally clear, Atheists are still people with traditions and celebrations, they just do NOT believe that there is a god.


This brings up the whole "origion of Christmas" debate... whether or not Jesus was born in something approximating February and that the Catholic leagues, in effort to co-opt Paganistic rituals, tacked on the additional part about Jesus' birth.

My apologies! Being that I would like to celebrate Christmas with a clear conscience, I shall now edit in a section devoted entirely to Krem.

Krem - I'll start out with playful banter, but then get sucked in to the argument really quick.

Krem - Something about Frank Sinatra and my avatar is an anchor. Ok, enough playful banter! This topic is flamebait, and I bet you celebrate Halloween, don't you, you pagan!

Mr. X - I hope you burn in hell.

I may have summarized a little, but that should be pretty close.